What am I missing here?

[SchoolfriendSteve]

Ok, Boys, this one’s got me stumped. Attempting to drop a ‘78 351M in my ‘79. Same, same, right? Only difference is the original one I pulled out was automatic trans, and the one I’m dropping in was a manual. Swapped out the pressure plate for a flex plate, everything’s going well until the last inch. I’m making contact with the top of the bell housing and have abt 1” gap at the bottom (using the lever on the lift). I have about 2” to go until the motor mounts are gonna be lined up in the brackets. So I measure. Face of the engine to the bolt: 13-1/4”. Face of the bell housing to the slot on the bracket: 12”. Had to stop for the day. Is there a reason (mismatch) with the replacement engine? Or do I just need to shove the tranny back? Nothing else is making contact or impeding it from going forward, touching at the top. Appreciate any feedback.

 

[Jimbo26]

Possibly the manual trans pilot bearing in the end of the crank still in there?
That'll kinda throw a 'monkey-wrench' in front of the TC snout.

 

[Motech]

Possibly the manual trans pilot bearing in the end of the crank still in there?

Great answer!

Appreciate any feedback.

To this day, the peskiest engine swap I've ever done was my first major Gen-1 Bronco job, a swap from inline six to 302 in 1987. We were retaining the three-speed manual, and I recall the input shaft had to be shortened to adapt to the Windsor block.

Oops... You're going AT...

OK then, I'm blushing, never mind.

Are you certain the torque converter is fully seated in the pump?

 

[SchoolfriendSteve]

Possibly the manual trans pilot bearing in the end of the crank still in there?
That'll kinda throw a 'monkey-wrench' in front of the TC snout.

I removed the pilot bearing, and am certain the torque converter is seated. The engine and bell housing are not fully parallel. Have a Jack under the trans to lift and align closer. What’s confusing is from what I can see there’s nothing in contact other than the top of the engine to the top of the bell housing. With the gap at the bottom, there’s abt an inch to get the bottom half to make contact but the engine mount/bolt has more than 1”1/2 - 2” to seat.

 

[Motech]

You're overthinking it. Lift and tweak however you need to get those surfaces mated.

 

[Motech]

Or...
Are you certain the big shim plate is aligned proper? That section just behind the rearmost head bolt looks suspicious.

 

[Tiha]

Great info so far, yes they can make you pull your hair out.

So if the torque convertor is not into the crank yet, then the mounting studs are not hitting the flywheel? Then you have the bellhousing dowel pins.

You need to lift and jack things around until your gap is equal all the way around the bellhousing.

touching at the top, and not at the bottom means the trans needs to come up and the engine needs to be tipped forward.

When I had more than one that I would swear wasn't going to go I would stop, move things around. Actually take a tape measure and make sure my gap was the same all the way around the bellhousing then start to push and wiggle again.

The distance the motor mount has to travel yet is always deceiving. The trans mount will move some too.

 

[goodO1boydws]

From the photo provided, the engine and trans are not yet close to being aligned-and that mismatched angle will definitely prevent them from bolting up.

It looks as if either the sling isn't lifting the back of the engine far enough to align with the trans, or the front of the trans is too low. OR BOTH.

If you aren't already supporting the front of the trans enough and the trans mount is still attached to the trans and frame, then its probably pivoting on the trans mount and angled downwards to the front from the angle it SHOULD be. So I'd try lifting its front end a bit, to tip it up from where it is, before doing anything else.
Be sure to keep an eye on how much you're stressing the trans mount by lifting it, as, especially with an old mount, you could rip that apart easily.

BTY, its usually easier to attach the motor mounts to the frame rather than having them on the engine when doing the engine transplant. That way there is no stud sticking out, you have more room, and you can slide the motor front to back to align the bolt holes.

 

[Jimbo26]

...... Lift and tweak however you need to get those surfaces mated.

Similar to puttin the innards back into a 4R70W or a 4L80E- ya gotta 'jiggle'.......
...stroke it to the east & stroke it to the west...

 

[Motech]

its usually easier to attach the motor mounts to the frame rather than having them on the engine when doing the engine transplant. That way there is no stud sticking out, you have more room, and you can slide the motor front to back to align the bolt holes.

Great point. I have removed mounts entirely in tight spaces. (like a Gen 1 Bronco with Atlas TC and no body lift, for instance ) Sometimes it's just easier to install the mounts after bell housing is secured.

Also, if you haven't gone this direction yet, it is a BIG help to have your floor jack under the tranny down center of truck from the front, not the side. Then, with jack handle between cherry picker legs, you can control them both simultaneously and finesse them together real smoothly.

 

[wyo58]

In case some one said this I apologize, It is your motor mounts that are messing you up. They are not letting you lower the engine enough to get your equal distance around the connection. pull them off make you connection, then lift the whole mess up enough to re-install your motor mounts. Been there done that and have the torn dirty tee shirts. Good luck!

 

[johnnyreb]

If the pilot bear is out. Nothing is between the transmission EDGE and back of motor facing. They are NOT lined up. Sometimes a little shake and it will fall in. It does,nt,take much. In this time. You probably got mad--licked it and it fell in. I hope so--- or try shaking it side ways. Its not much stopping in from going in. Good luck.

 

[SchoolfriendSteve]

Ok, Boys, this one’s got me stumped. Attempting to drop a ‘78 351M in my ‘79. Same, same, right? Only difference is the original one I pulled out was automatic trans, and the one I’m dropping in was a manual. Swapped out the pressure plate for a flex plate, everything’s going well until the last inch. I’m making contact with the top of the bell housing and have abt 1” gap at the bottom (using the lever on the lift). I have about 2” to go until the motor mounts are gonna be lined up in the brackets. So I measure. Face of the engine to the bolt: 13-1/4”. Face of the bell housing to the slot on the bracket: 12”. Had to stop for the day. Is there a reason (mismatch) with the replacement engine? Or do I just need to shove the tranny back? Nothing else is making contact or impeding it from going forward, touching at the top. Appreciate any feedback. View attachment 30546

thank you all for the ideas. I had to step away for a few days. Next going to try removing the motor mounts and attach afterwards. I can definitely see how the studs have been blocking progress. Jacking the trans a bit and adjusting the leveler on the engine hoist helped a bit during the last try, but the bolts are not helping things. Appreciate you all. As some of you may know, when I started this project over 2 years ago as a beginner, the engine that came with the truck was seized and it took me FOREVER to take it apart piece by piece without being able to rotate it. You all have been very helpful and supportive. I've figured out what you all already know .. patience and persistence will get you there. Thx guys.

 

[johnnyreb]

I wish you lived close buy. I,d help you get it in. If you took the pilot bearing out. Getting the transmission level with the motor. Should not take much to get it slide on in. Sometime lift up or down or side ways help get it together.

 

[johnnyreb]

I wish you lived close buy. I,d help you get it in. If you took the pilot bearing out. Getting the transmission level with the motor. Should not take much to get it slide on in. Sometime lift up or down or side ways help get it together.

More then likely the transmission is out of aligment and maybe needs the **** shook out of it.Done that and seen them fall in place. Its not much stopping it. You,,ll see. Good luck.

 

[johnnyreb]

Steve ,you never mentioned about taking the PILOT BEARING out of the CRANKSHAFT. We all make mistake and I know if you was to pull the motor forward a little and take a good light and look at the back of the crank. Won,t take long and be carefull and before you put you hands under it. Put some blocks between the motor and frame in case it falls and your hands will be out of the way. Take your time --we ain,t in a hurry to get hurt. Accidents do happen because we get in a hurry--take your time and good luck.

 

[wyo58]

Steve just remember it is to inanimate objects, your the one with the brain. You will get it together just stick with it. It's kind of weird because when it slips into place at some point, you think now why was that so hard! Keep that gap even all the way in and it will pop in place. Keep after it, you will win!

 

[L\Bronco]

Hey Steve, a good trick for stubborn installs is to use 2 bolts in the lowest bellhousing to engine holes that are 5-6" long. They will keep the eng and trans lined up, then all you have to to worry about is having the trans level with the engine. (Removing the mounts will help if you cant get the trans high enough.) Sometimes removing the access plate above the trans (in the floor pan) might give you the room you need.
Hope that helps.
Good luck
Cheers

 

[goodO1boydws]

L\Bronco has a good idea there, with using long bolts, and
another would be cutting the heads off 2 of them, rounding off the ends, and threading them into the back of the engine. That would give you long guide pins to keep the trans holes aligned for when you get close enough to start threading the bellhousing bolts in.

 

[SchoolfriendSteve]

Thx