stumped please help

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Yeah, I re-tested the fuel pressue and running its at 30-31psi I pulled the vaccum hose off the fuel pressure reg. and it climbed to about 40psi which I believe it right. With the vaccum on and running like I said its at about 30-31psi. but when I turn off the engine I dont lose any pressure it climbs 7-8psi. I haven't got to do the wiggle test yet but will tommorrow. Something else.... might just be nothing but If I start the engine and let it idle for 5min. or so before driving it hasn't been doing the hopping thing. This morning I didn't let it idle very long and drove down the road and it hopped, and at lunch it hopped, before leaving work I fired it up and let it idle for 5min. or so and drove home fine, might had been a fluke just thought it might be something.

 
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miesk5

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yo, ok

So assuming it is heat related; wire/cable connections.

How about another scan for Codes esp w/ eng cold and @ normal op temp.

 
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woo hoo I fired the bronco up today check the codes nothing went out and wiggled some wires nothing then it just died, with the key still on i checked again for codes and got P0320 (Ignition/Dist. Engine Speed Input Circuit Malfunction). What would be the first thing u would check or replace. Thanks

 

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sounds like the PIP sensor in the bottom of the dist is getting flakey. I would replace the pip and the ignition control module on the seid of the dist both at thew same time.

 

miesk5

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yo,

As Elmo mentioned, the PIP/and/or Ingnition Control Module (ICM) could be faulty, but bec. that CODE pOpped up during da wiggly-jiggly dance, check loose or corroded, wires/connectors.

Start @ ICM and check (GY/O) wire it runs from ICM to PCM with Branch to Distributor and it's PIP sensor

Ignition Control Module (ICM) Location pics (near driver's side hood hinge) & info in a 96 5.8; "...Spout connector wires go into ignition module wiring connector..."

Source: by DNBELOWBRONCO (Kevin, Labor of Love) at http://www.supermotors.net/registry/media/689143

btw, Kevin should have the Ford Motorcraft BLACK ICM in there.

If you can't find a wiring defect, unplug the voltage regulator at the alternator and see if that clears the code or the driveability issue. Diode Pattern Waveforms, Bad; "...This waveform was captured using the diode pattern test located in the engine tests menu. This particular alternator has a bad rectifier, causing an AC voltage to ride on top of the DC voltage signal. This AC voltage affected the pip and spout signals (Ford primary ignition signals) causing a no code driveability problem. The fix was to replace the alternator. This waveform was captured using the diode pattern test located in the engine tests menu. This alternator, like the previous alternator, has a bad rectifier. This is another example of how a bad rectifier can affect the diode pattern. The fix was to replace the alternator. This waveform was captured using the lab scope. This is a good example of how an alternator with a bad diode can affect other signals that the ECM looks at. In this case it is an IAC motor. When viewing waveforms that have a lot of hash always look at the alternator diode pattern as a possible cause..."

Source: by omitec.com @ http://www.omitec.com/en/support/waveforms/

And go thru this Test that includes your Black ICM

If none of above help, let me know here and I'll get the Ford Pin-Point Test for you; but I think it lead to using an oscilloscope to view the PIP signal that is a square wave

P0320 - Ignition Engine Speed Inp;ut Circuit Malfunction The ignition engine speed sensor input signal to PCM is continuously monitored. The test fails when the signal indicates that two successive erratic profile ignition pickup (PIP) pulses have occurred.

Symptoms;

Engine Light ON (or Service Engine Soon Warning Light)

Lack/Loss of Power

The engine may be harder to start

The engine may stumble or stall

Loose or corroded, or is faulting wires/connectors.

Possible Cause:

Low battery voltage.

Open/Shorted circuits.

Damaged distributor cap, rotor, plugs or plug wires.

Damaged coil, ICM or PCM.

Ignition failure sensor is used to check whether the spark ignition is occurred correctly or not and also used to tachometer drive. The sensor monitors the voltage difference between a resistance which is on the battery circuit for ignition coil. When the ignition coil works properly, the electric current through the resistance is detected as voltage drop. This is confirmed for every ignition event with the crankshaft sensor and the camshaft sensor. If Engine Control Module (ECM) detects a malfunction, no ignition is possible, so the engine would not start. If there is no ignition signal for a predetermined cycle for one or two ignition coils, an ignition coil circuit failure exists.

 
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I was wondering for the tests I would have to catch it not firing up to perform these test wouldn't I? I went out and it fired right up and done the wiggle

test again and this time nothing happened. I started changing out my tires since its snowing, got the tires on then as I backed out of the garage it died,

fired back up, ran a little died, then fired back up and ran good. Now and before..... the check engine light is... not... ON but the code is there. I was

going to go make the led tester but radio shack is out until Thur. I had changed the ICM out on the fender it ran but threw two codes on it about 1 week

ago, so I returned it and cleared the light. As for the PIP, should I just go buy a reman. distributer and just get it all? They were out and would have to

order it and would have it the next day. Could it be a crankshaft sensor? LOL just a cheap suggestion. It's getting narrowed down and I appreciate all

the help and suggestions, just want to feel like I'm not going to be on the side of the road everyday lol. Probably try to hitch a ride for tommorrow.

So far I have new fuel pump, filter, tried the ICM and returned it, new dpfe sensor, new wires, plugs, dist. cap, rotor button, new coil, and checked the

fuel pressure. Just thought I would add this, so u know what I have tried. PS I have been trying

some of the check I could everything looked good until I was doing the Ignition Control Module supply

voltage check....pin 2 and 3 was 11.95v I disconnected the S wire on the starter relay Pin 3 was 11.96

then pin 4 was .86 which is the start circuit, with this being found could it be my problem or just

contributing to my problems as well.

 
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miesk5

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yo,

batty voltage should be at least 12.4 volts

alternator output voltage should be between 13.0 and 15.0 volts.

crankshaft sensor, coukld be but do the tests first for PIP; most buy a reman distr. unless you have a local shop or automotive electrical repair shop that can do it for less

 
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OK, I'll buy or get one coming today and thanks I dont believe I would make it with out u all.

 
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Bought the reman. dist. and installed it today at work (boss is cool). It fires right up idles good, but on the way home i turned up hill and heard the pinging sound, and hesitation guess I'm not 100% in timed. I dont have a timing light should I buy one or just play with the dist. clock wise, couter clock wise until it smoothens out? This was my first time messing with a dist. or timing I did make the marks and should have been real close. You cant hear anything at idle or slight throttle just turning up hills or if u give it alot of gas. Have my figures crossed on the starting problem, time will tell and as always thanks.

 
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BroncoJoe19

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A couple of additional things that you might try is to clean your IAC, and I'm thinking that a '96 has a MAF sensor. You may want to try cleaning that too.

Does it start better once the engine is warmed up?

EDIT... Oooops this is what happens when I come in days late and don't read everything for detail. Completely missed that you got PIP codes. :( /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

 
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Krafty

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turn your distrubutor back until you dont hear that ping noise under hard acceleration, they will at least get you to a shop where they can hook up a timing light for you and get you back to spec. that ping noise is Pre-Ignition caused by your timing advance reaching beyond normal operating spec because the base timing is a few too many degrees advanced already. if that makes sense.

 

miesk5

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yo,

as Krafty advised; and a timing light is cheap and can be used in future on many vehicles.

Timing Adjustment in Ford EFI Engines; by Ryan M (Fireguy50) at http://oldfuelinjection.com/?p=71

MIESK5 NOTE; Spark timing that is ******** from specification may increase exhaust gas temperature and shorten catalyst life. Refer to the following procedure for service details. a. Check spark timing. Check base timing with spout disconnected. Set base timing to the specification on the vehicle emission decal. b. Check computed timing with spout connected. NOTE: COMPUTED TIMING IS EQUAL TO BASE TIMING PLUS 20° BTDC ± 3°. Use the ignition key only to start the vehicle. Attaching a remote starter might disable or initiate the start mode timing after the vehicle is started.

 
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I know I probably shouldn't be doing this, but today I started moving the dist. around very little...... at work with the spout dissconnected run it up the road and back, and got it running good, but when I reconnected the spout it didn't run to good it was like it was out again, dissconneted it again ran good (not to be confused with great). I looked down where the marker and the marks (lol suppose to be) and I didn't really see how u would see to use the timing light do u have to take off things (hoses, crankshaft position wire, etc.) to make it more visable..... like in the timing link u sent me? I really hate taking vehicles to the garage and just about refuse too, I dont learn anything that way. On a good note its been firing right up everytime and hasn't hopped since the dist. replacement.

 

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when I was having alot of trouble with my f150, I got a shop to put a light on it while I was standing there for 20 bucks, if you refuse to go to a shop then you HAVE to set your base timing with the spout removed With a Timing light. also your engine is not supposed to run like a dream with the spout removed. its supposed to run like a dream with the spout. the spout signal is what controls your timing advance under acceleration like the old school vacuum systems from the carb motors. too much base timing causes too much advance timing and Pinging and over time severe ignition, cylinder and valve issues.

too little base timing and your advance is too ********. As seen on dynos to much or too little base timing can cause serious power loss which is usually the number one hurdle for any gear head.

 
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Well Ive got a light but I dont seem to be able to get where I can see the needle. Do I have to dissconnect or take off anything to see it? I can see to the left of the needle and thought I tried every angle but maybe I miss one. LOL It seems every video there one hole to see it but I cant find it without taking things off.

 

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should be on the balancer looking from the passanger side front corner of the bronco, (I think) looking between the alternator, water pump and crankshaft pulleys,

 
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Ok..I took at my radiator, and shroud so I could see it. Now I seen the btdc 10 degree mark, then the 0 degree mark, then 10,20, etc. I disconnected the spout, warmed up the vehicle to operating temp. and set the timing on the 10 degree I guess u would call it on the advanced side. When I reinstalled the spout it jumped way up on the advance side and started acting up. Do I time it at the 0 degree without the spout or whats going on? Take the spout out back to 10 degree advance.

 
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Ok went out and tried that.... no better. Now I was backwards on the marking TDC goes to 10 then 0 then 10,20,30 on the BTDC I have it on the 10 degree on BTDC side or you could say the one in the middle.

 

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