9" axle seal questions

[BillsFan76]

Next on the list of issues with my Bronco. When bleeding the air in the brakes last weekend, I noticed the 9" axle seal on the passenger side had leaked all over the brakes shoes and drum. I read online about replacing the axle seal and it seemed pretty straightforward. Everything I read mentioned using a seal puller to get that seal out of the axle housing after pulling the axle shaft out but when I went to my local O'Reillys, the guy had no idea what I was talking about and said they come right out with a flat head screwdriver. I went home and tried to get it out without doing any damage and it wouldn't budge. Didn't want to mess anything up so stopped right there.

Also, when I pulled the axle shaft out, the round spring that I believe goes inside the seal itself, was laying inside the housing. I believe it came off the seal that is on the axle itself and is pressed on. I had no plans of changing that seal because I thought the leak was coming from the one in the axle housing itself but since the one on the axle itself is the one closest to the outside, would I be right in assuming it was the one leaking? I have no way of pressing the seal and bearing back together, is that something that can be done at a place like brakes plus? I know they replace axle seals that leak when they do brake work, wondering if I brought them the axle shafts if they would press the new seal back on and just charge me for the labor. If not, what other places do that type of work? Long winded post, sorry for that. I always try to explain everything so it's as clear as mud in the end /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> Thank you everyone for the assistance, I appreciate it.

Alex

 

[Bully Bob]

Any good shop should be able to press on/off rear axle bearings.

However I don't think that's your problem. The bearing is a "sealed" bearing & if it's not damaged

there's no need to remove it unless it growls or wobbles, etc.

There's just the 4 hole plate that holds the axle in place & the bearing on the axle.

There's no seal there except a fiber gasket for the plate.., or some folks just goo it in place with

liquid gasket, etc.

That spring likely came out of the seal you're trying to remove.

That seal can be a bit tough to get out.  Like I said.., it will likely be destroyed to get it out.

Use something like a 1/2" bar about a foot long. The insert end should be smooth so it

doesn't scratch the seal mating surface as it comes out.

Wack the bar with a hammer to give it a jolt.

Super clean & **** the seal cavity area & **** it so the new seal will tap in easier.

Be patient.., the new seal may be hard to get started but it will go in & seat..!!

 

[BillsFan76]

Thanks Bob, I feel better not messing with that inner seal and bearing if not needed. Do I need to pack that bearing with grease since the axle shaft was removed or don't bother?

 

[Bully Bob]

If it's a factory type "sealed" bearing..., it has internal grease. It can't be packed.

It should have a plastic cover over both sides of the bearing.

It's not removable & holds grease in & dirt out.

The gear oil fr. the differential does not **** this bearing. Reason for the seal in the end of the axle tube.

 

[BillsFan76]

Good to know. Thank you!

 

[BillsFan76]

If it's a factory type "sealed" bearing..., it has internal grease. It can't be packed.

It should have a plastic cover over both sides of the bearing.

It's not removable & holds grease in & dirt out.

The gear oil fr. the differential does not **** this bearing. Reason for the seal in the end of the axle tube.

Bob,

I don't remember if the bearing was sealed or not honestly.  I'll have it apart again tomorrow hopefully to replace that leaking seal and all the brake hardware.  If it's not a sealed bearing, do you pack some bearing grease into it anytime you pull the axle shaft ?

Also, when you mentioned clean/**** the seal cavity, assumed you're saying just **** the cavity and the outside of the seal going in with some diff oil?  I'd rather clear everything up now then later when I ***** something up and wish I asked lol

Thanks for all of your help man, it's been huge!

Alex

 

[Bully Bob]

You're welcome..!

"If it's not a sealed bearing, do you pack some bearing grease into it anytime you pull the axle shaft ?"

I've not seen or heard of anyone putting an open sided bearing on there...., but anything is possible with PO's

(sealed bearings are used 'cause it's exposed to the elements somewhat)

If it is open or damaged., get it removed & the correct one put on. If it's smooth, just leave it.

"...clean/**** the seal cavity, assumed you're saying just **** the cavity and the outside of the

seal going in with some diff oil?"

Correct.., any slipery **** will help it slide into place & seat.

Again, it can be a struggle.., just keep working it & it'll go.

(I got in a hurry once & bent one getting it started.., (   however, they're cheap)

 

[BillsFan76]

I pull the seal out pretty easily and behind it in the axle housing are these 2'pieces. I assume pieces of the ring and pinion /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> shouls I even bother with the seal at this point or just bring it somewhere? I have no idea how to do anything with the R/P or third member.

 

[BillsFan76]

Metal pieces

 

[BillsFan76]

It has a posi rear end, are those piece of the posi track by chance? If so can that be taken out and ran as open differential?

 

[Bully Bob]

Good job..!

Interesting to say the least..!  Was the rear end/axle functioning normal  other than the leak at the brake backing plate..?

i.e no noise/growling, etc....?

If so.., these may be remnants of a previous surgery that weren't found. (as in diff. failure then re-built with posi added.)

--- They're not part of the posi.., looks more like broken off ring or pinion teeth.

I would just put the new seal in..., install the axle, & run it.   Watch-listen-feel for any signs of vibration noise.

The good news is.., if there's a problem in the 3rd member (ring/pinion) gear set..., it's easy to un-bolt it

& pull it out for inspection....., then re-install.

Posi's rarely, if ever "fail" .., if any thing, they just get weak over maybe 20-30 years.

 

[BillsFan76]

I pulled the other axle out and there was a metal chunk same size in that axle housing as well. I think I'm going to **** it up and go buy a drain pan and open up the rear end and see what it looks like. I hate to mess around and do any damage.

 

[BillsFan76]

So one bearing is completely tight with no play when I spun it. The other side has very slight play on it. Assuming I should have that side replaced. Not sure if it's enough to matter or if any play even slight is a deal breaker.

 

[Bully Bob]

You see how easy it is to R&R a rear axle.  I would just run it. (bearing) It could go another 20 yrs. 

Can't hurt to pull the pumpkin out. you'll need a new gasket.  It's a heavy SOB so be prepared

to use some  muscle..!

If the cavity is clean..,  I would guess the rear blew some time back & some of the debris just

hid out in the tubes.

Inspect those inner seals in the tubes if you do pull the pumpkin.

 

[BillsFan76]

The play in that other bearing really does seem minor. If I didn't have one with zero play to compare it I doubt it I would have noticed it. I'll probably just put it back in for now. Gonna drop that pumpkin and cross my fingers it's metal from a previous fix. That would make my day honestly. I heard nothing when driving it

 

[BillsFan76]

Took a day off work today hoping to get this part of my mess finished and of course, it didn't work out that way I took my my axle to western drivetrain to have a new bearing pressed on and when the mechanic looked at it, he said the shaft had pitting at the end where seal was and that I should replace it because it would continue to leak.

He sent me to 4wheel parts saying they would have an axle for probably 125$ish. Not even close. Cheapest they had was $259 for the axle not counting bearing and labor to press it on. A mechanic walked by and looked at it and said he thought it was fine and sent me to another drivetrain shop. They said they would press it on but couldn't guarantee it wouldn't leak but the price to remove and put the new bearing on was only $70. Figured I would try that first and if it leaks I'll look for an oem axle or upgrade. Couldn't get it back till tomorrow though so back on hold.

Now for the 9" pumpkin. Finally got it out in my driveway with the help of my brother and this picture is what was laying inside bottom of the rear end. I almost crap my pants. I started turning the gears in the pumpkin though and everything looked intact. I took it to western drivetrain and had it inspected and tightened up. He said it had a lot of play in it but it was all intact and the pieces were from a previous rear end explosion. Threw it back in and filled it up with fluid. Just waiting on my axles and drums that still haven't showed up to put it back together. Hoping the axles seal fine and don't leak all over my new drums and brake hardware, fingers crossed.

 

[Bully Bob]

Let's see here.., any **** that gets up to the axle seal is simply "splatter".

Again.., the bearing has nothing to do with  any fluid. The bearing slips on & the "pressed" on ring holds it in place.

The area where the seal rides could have a bit of pitting but generally NO BIGGIE.

Used (good) axles are avail. & pretty cheap.

"the pieces were from a previous rear end explosion"

Did I get that right or what...??

I doubt you'll get any leaks.

 

[BillsFan76]

That's great news man, hearing that the minor pitting where the seal rides probably is not a big deal. It was minor pitting, and he said when he ran his fingernail across it that It didn't even get caught. I figured it was smart to just go ahead and let them press a bearing on each side and see if that fixed it. The cost for the bearing and labor on each side was only $70 each, pretty reasonable. And it's funny you mention the bearing has nothing to do with leaks, the way he was explaining it it seem like the bearing itself was preventing gear oil from getting to the axle seal but that's not the case at all. Looking forward to seeing if the leak is stopped