351w To 351c?

[dlilliman]

I have an '83 Bronco with the stock 351W in it right now. I purchased another engine to have bored out and rebuilt. With the limited knowledge I have of these motors, I was under the impression that it was a windsor. Once I dissassembled the engine completely and brought it to the shop that was going to do the work, I was informed that I had a cleveland. So, my first question is, what exactly is the difference in a windsor and a cleveland, and my second question is, will it go in my '83 Bronco with no problem???? And if not, what modifying would I have to do to put it in?? I sure would appreciate any info on this subject.....

 

[Seabronc]

About all the two engines have in common is 351 /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> . There are very few interchangable parts, infact next to none. They both get their name from the plant in which they were manufactured. Clevelands were only built from 70 - 74 so there are not as many available as Windsors. The Cleveland has a lot of fans and it is said that if it's built correctly, it can produce plenty of power.

The bell housing on a Cleveland uses the big block 5 bolt pattern so you will have to change the bell housing on the transmission. I'm not sure about engine mounts, but I would guess they are not the same. The 83 Bronc uses a Duraspark II ignition system and should pretty much drop in, or you could use a custom ignition system.

A lot of performance builders seem to like the 60s and early 70s engines when building a small block based engine. 351Ws from 1975 - 84 had a reputation for poor quality block casting with cracking problems and just plain crappy workmanship.

You canfind the actual year of the casting from the casting numbers; ex. D4AE - 6015 - A D = 1970-79, 0 =year 74, A = Ford line, E = Enginegroup, followed by basic part number, and revision level.

So yah, you will have a bit of modification, but since you have it on hand i'd go for it. I'm sure there is someone on the forum that has done it already and give you the conversion details.

Good luck,

 

[Justshootme84]

Good info, Seabronc, and very true. I am seriously looking at a 500+HP stroked 351C for mud racing. These motors are not as good as the Windsors for a 4x4 due to the higher powerband and less lowend torque, but can be great for race engines if built right. The bolt pattern and engine mounts are the two big issues that need to be addressed. Other drivetrain parts will need to be beefed up to handle more power, too. I would stick with the 351W if you still want a daily driver or all-purpose trail/street rig. You can still build it up from mild to wild, and there's alot more aftermarket parts suppliers than for the "C" series.

 

[BLADE262US]

Well there are a few things about the 351C to 351W swap . The 351C will fit in the same hole your 351W came out of . The 351C has the SMALL block bolt pattern like the 289/302/351W . It also uses Exactly the same motor mounts as a small block . The motor mounts are held to the block by 2 bolts that go straight up into the block . The 351M/400/460 have I believe 3 bolts that hold the motor mount on and they go in the side of the block . The 351C/351M/400 all have ehaust manifold bolts that are diagonal to eachother the 289/302/351W all have exhaust manifold bolts that are straight across from eachother . The distributor in the 351C is the same one used in the 351M/400/460/429 . The early 351C heads 70/71 are for leaded gas so keep that in mind when payinmg the machine shop the valve seats must be changed for use with unleaded gas or you could use 351M heads which are identical except they are set up to run unleaded gas so would be cheaper to have reconditioned . So you are looking at changing the exhaust and you can get headers for a 351M in the truck chassis so youll be all set there . The distributor from a 351M outta like a 79 was a duraspark unit so youll be all set there and as far as bolting in it will fit right in . Would I do it **** YEAH I had one of those motors in a 1973 mach 1 mustang and it would flat out haul . It is heavier than a 351W but they are very strong motors . There is one good way to tell a 351W from 351C First they will have identical looking motor mount bosses on the block . They will be the same bolt pattern for the transmission . The manifold bolt holes on a 351W are staight inline with eachother running parallel with the block and the 351C has the bolt holes being diagonal to eachother . The upper water neck on a 351C comes straight up outta the block and on a 351W it comes out the front of the intake . Also the 351W has a thick aluminum timing chain cover that the water pump mounts too and the 351C has like a 3/16 inch steel plate that covers the front of the block abd the water pump mounts to that . Hope this helps /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />http://www.oemfordparts.com/faq/smallblockv8.htm http://www.ffcobra.com/FAQ/351.html

 

[Seabronc]

I stand corrected I pulled that bell housing stuff off the topo of my head and must have been confused. I checked and it apears that the 351C can bolt right up to a C6. However, if you are not producing a racing engine, and can get your money back on this one, I'd take Justshootme84's advice and get a Windsor, but steer away from the 75 -84 castings. If you are stuck with this engine, it is a good one, and you could make up for the lowend torque with gearing.

Good luck,

>-

 

[Justshootme84]

I'm still under the impression that the 351C has the big-block bolt pattern. Ditto on the motor mounts. If it's identical to the 351W, all the better. I'll have to take another look, but hope it's true. a site with comaprisons or photos would be cool, too.

 

[BLADE262US]

At the bottom of my post there a couple links Justshootme that go to a site that list the differences , I have both motors 351W AND 351C so I am 150% sure they are the same . Can get pics if you need . Got anything left of that bronco you were parting ? Need a transfer case shifter for 87-96 . /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

 

[Toby the Dancing Bronco]

If I had a 351 Cleveland when I was 19, driving a 64 1/2 Mustang, fast back, I'd of never found the dirt. If I had a 351 Cleveland and my 74 Bronco (named Toby), I would build the motor with a blower, wouldn't worry about low end torque and look into buying a lot of u-joints and axles. If I had that blown 351 C, I'd probably be paying sooooo much alimony I couldn't aford the internet connection to read of your good fortune. You can always just hold on to it until you find another ride to put it in. Like guns and extra socket sets, it's always better to have and not need, than it is to need and not have.

 

[Justshootme84]

Thanks for the links, Blade, that makes me feel better that you are right and what someone else told me is not. I sold the shift lever and linkage to the B-W 1356, just have the t-case for sale. If you still need those parts, I can check with my buddies for one.

Toby, I ain't bought the motor yet, but I prolly will if I can haggle a good price from the dude. Funny story, I went to the only place around to get inspected since I have my Shaker hood, since I know most places would fail me in a heartbeat. Turns out the dude is an avid mud racer and Bronco nut, so I passed. He has way too much stuff laying around the shop, so he shouldn't miss the 351C too much. I agree that low-end torque isn't an issue from my point of view either.

 

[BLADE262US]

I do still need the shifter if you have can find one around . Thanks /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />