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PLEASE HELP......[/font]

 

I have a 95 Bronco 351 5.8, i have replaced so many parts chasing a problem my $1200 project is blown out of the water. I am having problems driving, but after 4-5 miles it does it again. I can cut the engine off wait about 30 seconds and start it back up then go 4-5 miles again. And mine will do it when it is cold as well, Cold start and within the first mile it does it. The only code(s) i have gotten was: A) EGR FLOW and B ) something like UNEXPECTED RPM CHANGE if that makes any sense. I have change the following parts to fix a number of different problems and several to chase this problem down, AND this Broncos Breakn The Bank. The CHANGED parts are as follows:

 

Fuel Pump and Sock

Inline Fuel Filter

Plugs

Wires

Ignition Coil

TPS (engine was idleing at roughly 2500 rpms TPS tested bad, replaced, now idle at roughly 800-1000)

EGR Valve ( thinking EGR FLOW code would be fixed NOT)

 

Distributor cap and rotor look fairly good.

Plugs are Gapped acording to Auto Zones recomendations .044 if i remember correctly

Also I have noticed that when it breaks down or begins to stall and i pull over my fuel pump is running constantly. I have the exhaust cut loose in front of my CC bc i thought it was stopped up.

I have read all of your previous comments and still am not sure what to do. Please help me if you will.

Else my wife is probably going to kill me if i keep throwing money into a truck i cannot take her for a ride in.

Edited by Broncos Breakn The Bank

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I don't see if you changed the Fuel Pressure Regulator.

Are you seeing black smoke coming out of the exhaust?

Does it sound like it's firing "Wet" at idle?

 

What exactly is the truck doing when it "breaks down"?

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I don't see if you changed the Fuel Pressure Regulator.

Are you seeing black smoke coming out of the exhaust?

Does it sound like it's firing "Wet" at idle?

 

What exactly is the truck doing when it "breaks down"?

 

 

 

 

It begins to spit and sputter, losing power. if i push the gas it cuts out all togeather. When i begins to die i can feather the gas and keep it running to get it to the side of the road. When it dies i can cut the key off wait 30 sec and fire it right back up. It sounds like a miss to me but im not really sure. Please talk dummy terms to me im a commercial electrician with an expensive habbit.

 

And no i have not changed the Fuel Pressure Regulator, and no i have not noticed black smoke.

Edited by Broncos Breakn The Bank

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Ok mine did this for a while till it backfired through the throttle body and took out the dist, timing chain and a few other things. Turned out to be the Fuel Pressure Regulator. They are cheap at the LPS. Change that and then report back.

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Ok mine did this for a while till it backfired through the throttle body and took out the dist, timing chain and a few other things. Turned out to be the Fuel Pressure Regulator. They are cheap at the LPS. Change that and then report back.

 

k please help me locate the FPR on my block. I am still learning my way around the motor. And thank you for your help.

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Fuel pressure regulator should be on the driver side fuel rail toward the back of the motor.

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yo; here is what Shadow cited

 

FPR, Injector & Rail Location pic in 92-96

Source: by Ryan M (Fireguy50) at fordfuelinjection.com

My link

tab_tad_evp_coil.jpg

 

 

FPR Test;

"...Pull the red vacuum line & check for gasoline...There shouldn't even be the ODOR of gas in it." by Ford via Steve83

 

miesk5 note; Check fuel pressure, install fuel pressure gauge, start and run the engine at idle. Fuel pressures between 28 and 34 PSI are typical (4.9L typically is 15 PSI higher). Disconnect the vacuum line going to the fuel pressure regulator. Fuel pressure typically jumps to 40 PSI ± 3 PSI (4.9L typically is 15 PSI higher). Visually inspect vacuum line for raw fuel. FUEL PRESSURES ABOVE THESE VALUES SHOULD BE CORRECTED. HOWEVER, THIS MAY NOT BE THE CAUSE OF THE CONCERN. SERVICE AS NECESSARY.

 

as for the Codes; Have em pulled again for free or better yet; diy using our PAL JOE's DIY method

 

The engine temperature must be greater than 50°F (10°C) to pass the KOEO Self-Test and greater than 180°F (82°C) to pass the KOER Self-Test.

 

Run it around to heat the engine up and shift thru all gears incl Reverse. Then turn off all accesories/lights, etc. Make sure A/C is off and transmission is in Park (automatic) or in Neutral for a Manual & release clutch. Do Key On Engine Off (KOEO) portion first. Look Codes up in my broncolinks.com site using the new Search function.

And Post em here

 

We need to fix that EGR FLOW Code!

That could be an issue here as you mentioned..

 

--

and;

re; "...Also I have noticed that when it breaks down or begins to stall and i pull over my fuel pump is running constantly. I have the exhaust cut loose in front of my CC bc i thought it was stopped up."

 

Is the Fuel Pump running with Ignition SWITCH OFF & ENGINE OFF?

if so;

Pump Runs w/Ignition Switch Off; "...The relay probably has the points welded. Here is a diagram of the circuit..." Source: by Seabronc (Rosie, Fred W) at Ford Bronco Zone Forums

 

Pump Runs w/Ignition Switch Off; "...If it stays running with the truck off, then most likely you have a bad fuel pump relay; EEC Relay hanging closed; If the EEC relay goes bad, it could be sending the signal to the fuel pump relay to turn the fuel pumps on; One easy test for this is: Without the key in ignition, bump the starter over @ the starter relay using a screwdriver. If it is the EEC relay, the truck will start without the key in the ignition..." MIESK5 NOTE; from Ford EVTM; The Control Module (PCM) runs the pump{s} for one second when it receives an ignition- on signal. It also runs the pumps as long as it receives a PIP signal from the Hall-effect devices, it continues pump operation even after the key is released from START. If the PIP signals fall below 120RPM, the control module cuts off the signal to the fuel pump relay or the integrated relay control module. The pump will also run when the terminals of the fuel pump test connector are jumped. the Control module signals the pump when it receives a CRANK signal, and when the Control module gets PIP signals that the engine is running. the pump does not run if the PIP indicates the engine is not running even with ignition ON {except for that first one second}.

Source: by sackman9975 (Scott), Redwagon & miesk5

Edited by miesk5

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yo, Also

 

Thanks for re-posting your Q here instead of staying in that other thread!!! Good job!

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yo, Also

 

Thanks for re-posting your Q here instead of staying in that other thread!!! Good job!

 

ok sorry for the lack of information...... the fuel pump runs only when the engine is running. when i start the motor the fuel pump is running LOUDLY constantly. I can run it down the road when i come to a stop sign i can hear it running non-stop (like never before). I first thought it was just low of gas so i filled it up and can still hear it just as loud. As for the FPR, i cannot detect any gas on or in the vaccuum line.

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yo,

At times my FP gets loud.. for about 5 years now, Especially in COLD weather; some say it's about to die, but...it's still like that bunny!

 

we may do a fuel press test later, but that will cost some $ for the test or to buy a tester other than using a tire gauge (seen it done and most of the time gas leaked all over the owner, and I don't want to hear that happened)

 

Test for Codes again.. in both KOEO and KOER as stated above and in Joe's DIYer

We need those codes to get that stuff fixed before wag'ing begins.

 

Good on da FPR!

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yo,

At times my FP gets loud.. for about 5 years now, Especially in COLD weather; some say it's about to die, but...it's still like that bunny!

 

we may do a fuel press test later, but that will cost some $ for the test or to buy a tester other than using a tire gauge (seen it done and most of the time gas leaked all over the owner, and I don't want to hear that happened)

 

Test for Codes again.. in both KOEO and KOER as stated above and in Joe's DIYer

We need those codes to get that stuff fixed before wag'ing begins.

 

Good on da FPR!

 

ok here is what i got.....

 

KOEO......Nothing

 

KOER......

 

172

327

538

 

I feel pretty good about this ( i did it right) i did the test twice to make sure, and got the same codes both times.

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yo, ok Good!

DTC 172, 173 or 41 for HO2S Failure, in POSSIBLE LOCATIONS OF WIRING SHORTS TSB 95-02-11 for 92-95 Bronco & F Series; "the HO2S wires in the 12A690 (subassembly of the 14B060 battery cable) harness may be cut on the lower right engine mount causing improper signals to be sent to the PCM. Damage may be under the electrical tape..." SEE TSB 95-5-21 for Detailed Info Source: by Ford via Chilton

 

Fuse "E" Inoperative could exhibit any one of the following conditions: ABS Light On, Back-Up Lamps Inoperative, DRLs Inoperative, MIL On, Speedometer Inoperative, DTC 172, 173 or 41 for HO2S Failure in TSB 95-5-21 for 92-95 Bronco & F Series; On some vehicles the HO2S wires in the 12A690 (subassembly of the 14B060 battery cable) harness may become chafed READ MORE Source: by Ford via Chilton

 

DTC 327"...indicates the Differential Pressure Feedback EGR (DPFE) sensor signal is less than the Self-Test minimum value of 0.2 volt.

Possible causes: Damaged PFE/DPFE sensor. Open harness circuits. Shorted harness circuits. Damaged Powertrain Control Module (PCM).

ok, I forget what engine you have; a 95 5.8 will have the DPFE as well as all 96's

DPFE on 5.8L

egr.jpg

 

DPFE Sensor Location pic in a 96 5.0; Older Aluminum Rectangular Version, driver's side above distributor in a 96 5.0; - MIESK5 NOTE: only 95 5.8L California models & all 96 have the DPFE Sensor instead of EGR Valve Position Sensor (EVP)

Source: by miesk5 at SuperMotors.net

 

dpfesilverboxwconnector.jpg

 

check for hoses torn or burned off..

 

(DPFE) Sensor Overview, Construction, Testing & Depiction, Older Aluminum Version; by Tomco

 

 

Code 538 No problem...- Insufficient RPM change during dynamic response test. This is another code generated when the dynamic response or "goose" test as some refer to it is not performed during the KOER test. The KOER test requires that after a certain length of time the throttle be opened to bring the idle above 2000 rpm for a short period of time. If the dynamic response test is not performed or the rpm's do not peak ABOVE 2000 rpm's this code will be generated. (Computer needs to compare changes in sensor readings at different RPM's to determine system operation and efficiency).

thanks to Joel for his assistance!

 

btw, This "goose" test is part of detailed pin-point test that is not discussed in most on-line Code testing articles, but is in factory manuals, etc.

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EDIT

 

use this to test the DPFE

http://www.tomco-inc.com/Tech_Tips/ttt34.pdf

 

and change possibele causes to This can be due to a bad DPFE sensor, a bad DPFE hose, improper reference voltage, a bad connection or a bad computer (MUCH LEES LIKLEY).

 

get my Ford parts via AMAZON; they are VG at delvy and esp pricing; I bought a $150.00 Motorcraft DPFE Sensor for $50.00 with free shipping and no sales tax; Local dealers wanted 150.0 + sales tax

 

same price & discount for an Idle Air Control (IAC)

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EDIT

 

use this to test the DPFE

http://www.tomco-inc.com/Tech_Tips/ttt34.pdf

 

and change possibele causes to This can be due to a bad DPFE sensor, a bad DPFE hose, improper reference voltage, a bad connection or a bad computer (MUCH LEES LIKLEY).

 

get my Ford parts via AMAZON; they are VG at delvy and esp pricing; I bought a $150.00 Motorcraft DPFE Sensor for $50.00 with free shipping and no sales tax; Local dealers wanted 150.0 + sales tax

 

same price & discount for an Idle Air Control (IAC)

 

ok.... sorry too seem so ignorant but right now i really am......

 

as for the first code i saw some recognizable problems like ABS light on and Speedometer not working..... Not to take all your time but could you tell me how to check this in "dummy" terms.... thank you

 

Also I have the 5.8l so..... what do i look for for the DFPE and what should i do to test or fix this.

I know i am taking alot of time and im very sorry i have just put alot of money in this truck chasing stuff i didnt know what i was doing and want to make sure i am not blowing money or time doing the wrong things again.

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Edit for last post

 

I found that the plug on top of the EGR valve was loose, i plugged it back up and re-ran the KOER test now i have the following Codes:

 

172

*****213***** (new Code)

538 (already addressed)

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ok.... sorry too seem so ignorant but right now i really am......

 

as for the first code i saw some recognizable problems like ABS light on and Speedometer not working..... Not to take all your time but could you tell me how to check this in "dummy" terms.... thank you

 

Also I have the 5.8l so..... what do i look for for the DFPE and what should i do to test or fix this.

I know i am taking alot of time and im very sorry i have just put alot of money in this truck chasing stuff i didnt know what i was doing and want to make sure i am not blowing money or time doing the wrong things again.

**************

 

yo, I keep being logged off here ..

 

No problem; keep asking and inserting any info you have

 

as for the first code i saw some recognizable problems like ABS light on and Speedometer not working

 

Read those two LINKs I poseted

(Right CLICK on Each and In Pop-up window, click Open In New Window)

There is probably a short in the wiring harness as shown near battery.. etc.

 

for the Silver rectangular DPFE Sensor...

 

I posted two thumbnail sized pics of the DFPE location., use the one for the 5.8

 

Right CLICK on the pic and In Pop-up window, click Open In New Window

it is on passenger side; right above the alternator; it has 2 high temp resistant silicone hoses that lead back to the EGR Tube (tube runs from the EGR Sensor _it is shown in the pic as a flying saucer type device to left of the DPFE sensor and has it's tube below partially covered by that heat shield woven stuff..looks like asbestos, huh?

 

The 2 high temp resistant silicone hoses, if damaged are available at a Ford dealer...

take em to the parts dept; they have em on a reel and charge an astounding $10.00 a foot for each hose.

 

DPFE Sensor Hose part numbers; 1L3Z-9P761-AA - 1/4" for REF - Downstream hose (INTAKE); 1L3Z-9P761-BA - 5/16" for Upstream hose (EXHAUST); UPDATE DORMAN 46019 High Temperature DPFE Hoses OE#: 1L3Z9P761AA, 1L3Z9P761BA, "Contains both hoses for an easy repair..."

 

 

 

to test use what I posted in my next reply, above

 

use this to test the DPFE

http://www.tomco-inc.com/Tech_Tips/ttt34.pdf

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DTC 213 Spout Circuit Open; "...EZ check first; Ck to see if the SPOUT (Spark Output) connector is missing. da connector is a little "jumper" that fits into two wire connector; located near driver's side hood hinge

Check to see if it is in-place, if connector/wiring is damaged or corrosion is in conn or wiring..."

Source: by miesk5

 

here is a pic by Steve83

My link

5.8l-spout.jpg

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ok i checked the SPOUT it is plugged in and in VERY NEW looking condition..... as is my Dist. cap and rotor button. But you have a link in your www.broncolinks.com 1 Spark Output (SPOUT) Connector 12/28/2010 @ 11:26:30

http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/dec2002/techtotech.cfm

 

I have read and found some very similar problems and attemps this person has on his ranger. But i have looked and it does not give very good details on what to look for or what is what. They are referencing to a PIP i am not at all familiar with what this is or even if this is revelant to me. I just noticed in reading the link on you site it sounded very similar.

 

DIRECT QUOTE FROM LINK:

 

No-Spark w/SPOUT Connected (similar to Hesitation, Stumble, Stall, Miss, No Start, No Spark); "It seems that the insulation around many PIP sensors breaks down prematurely - a condition that leads to shorting of the wires leading to the TFI ignition module. I always replace a PIP sensor along with a defective ignition module, if it has "soft" insulation...This month's column is about a Ford Ranger one of my students (Drew) said "would only run for about a mile, then die." Since we were in the middle of our electrical and engine performance unit, this vehicle would serve as a perfect troubleshooting opportunity. The story from my student went as follows: The vehicle began stalling intermittently during driving, but would usually restart right away. Sometimes, however, it would have to sit for a few minutes. Drew had replaced the ignition coil on the advice of a family friend, but the problem persisted. Next, the thick film ignition (TFI) module was replaced with a quality no-name brand from a local parts house. The stalling condition continued.

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yo, The TFI can be tested, but.. it is diff to splain here; so look in my site under

Ignition,

Systems

 

TFI

http://www.broncolinks.com/index.php?index=230

and read up on trouble shooting.. think there are a few.. then you'll need to jump around in my site to see where this is

 

same for PIP...@ http://www.broncolinks.com/index.php?index=393

 

it is detailed test but if you took it to a shop..$$$$

 

Take your time.

 

I must roll now; son is here and we need to work.

 

 

be back in morning with Luck.

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ok i believe this is a picture of what i am supposed to be looking for is the aluminum rectangle with the plug sticking out of it. it is mounted right beside the EGR valve on a bracket correct?

 

egr.jpg

 

if that is where it is supposed to be, there is nothing mounted to the bracket but i have a cylinder with two wires going into the top of it. is this the same thing or is mine missing? and from looking at the diagrams there should be something running from the egr valve to this DFPE i cant find anything coming from the egr valve except the main vaccuum line. UUUHHHHHHH im going crazy chasing this gost problem that i have no idea as what im looking for.

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ok i believe this is a picture of what i am supposed to be looking for is the aluminum rectangle with the plug sticking out of it. it is mounted right beside the EGR valve on a bracket correct?

 

egr.jpg

 

if that is where it is supposed to be, there is nothing mounted to the bracket but i have a cylinder with two wires going into the top of it. is this the same thing or is mine missing? and from looking at the diagrams there should be something running from the egr valve to this DFPE i cant find anything coming from the egr valve except the main vaccuum line. UUUHHHHHHH im going crazy chasing this gost problem that i have no idea as what im looking for.

 

 

yo, that is where it is supposed to Mount;

 

this is another DPFE Sensor Location pic in my 96 5.0; Older Aluminum Rectangular Version, driver's side above distributor in a 96 5.0; - MIESK5 NOTE: only 95 5.8L California models & all 96 have the DPFE Sensor instead of EGR Valve Position Sensor (EVP)

Source: by miesk5 at SuperMotors.net

dpfesilverboxwconnector.jpg

 

 

here is a close-up pic

140.jpg

Edited by miesk5

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ok here is a picture of what i have.... i have searched this truck over and it is NOT here. I have looked above Dist. as well as you show on your 5.0 not there either. please take a look at this and let me know what you think. Also Today in messing with the truck i am now having problems starting it...... It starts but will not always stay running i have to keep re-starting it and eventually it will stay running. dont know if this changing problem may help in the diagnosis of my Agravation Problem.

 

 

post-17121-12957366671519_thumb.jpg

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yo,

ok

 

you have the non cal EGR Valve Position Sensor (EVP)

 

sorry about that but the code you posted always has (until now) indicated it is a 95 5.8 calif smogged Bronco

 

so

 

pic in a 5.8; Miesk5 Note EVP is light gray & attached to the top of the EGR Valve

Source: by Travis L

egr-connector.jpg

 

 

egrtubesv8.jpg

 

Overview & Parts Break-Out Diagram for 5.0 & 5.8; SEE & READ MUCH MORE

Source: by Steve83 (Steve, That dirty old truck) at http://www.supermotors.net/registry/media/826382

 

Testing & Operation; "...The EGR Valve Position (EVP) sensor monitors the position of the EGR valve pintle. The EVP sensor converts the mechanical movement of the pintle into an electrical voltage signal which is relayed to the PCM. The EVP sensor is a linear potentiometer in which resistance varies with the EGR valve pintle movement.Voltage is fed to the EVP by the signal return circuit. As the EGR is opened the EVP directs more voltage to the EEC and less down the voltage reference circuit. The EVP sensor provides the PCM with information on EGR flow and EGR system failures. The EVP should read between 0.24 and 0.67volts at idle with a closed EGR valve..." read more

Source: by Ryan M (Fireguy50) at http://fordfuelinjection.com/index.php?p=35

 

Testing; "...Using the Haynes manual's procedures, you should be able to back-probe the EVP line and ascertain whether the EVP voltage is correct. It should be below 0.67V @ zero vacuum on the EGR, slowly increasing with applied vacuum from a hand pump. DO NOT apply more than 10 in-Hg to the valve..."

Source: by SigEpBlue (Steve)

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Continuous Memory DTC 327 indicates the EGR valve was closed further than normal or EVP sensor or circuit has failed with an intermittent low voltage sometime during vehicle operation.

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MF!

 

You won't be able to do all of this because of the freakin' break-out box crap, so do the shake n bake on the EVP sensor harness, etc.

 

Continuous Memory DTC 337 indicates the EVP signal to the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) was above the maximum Self-Test limit sometime during vehicle operation.

 

Possible causes:

 

-- Poor continuity in EVP harness or connectors.

 

-- Intermittent open or short in EVP sensor or harness.

 

-- Damaged EVP sensor.

 

l Disconnect Powertrain Control Module (PCM). Inspect for damaged or pushed out pins, corrosion, loose wires, etc. Service as necessary.

 

l Install breakout box, reconnect PCM.

 

l Connect DVOM between Test Pin 27 and Test Pin 46 at the breakout box.

 

l Key on, engine off.

 

l Lightly tap on EVP sensor and wiggle harness connector to simulate road shock.

 

NOTE:

EVP voltage with EGR valve closed is normally between .24 and .67 volt and steady. A sudden change in voltage indicates a fault.

 

l Is a fault indicated?

 

Yes

REMOVE and INSPECT EVP sensor connector. If OK, REPLACE EVP sensor. CLEAR Continuous Memory (REFER to Quick Test Appendix, «Section 5A»). RERUN «Quick Test».

 

No

LEAVE DVOM connected, RECONNECT PCM and GO to «DN91».

 

DN91 CHECK EEC-IV VEHICLE HARNESS FOR INTERMITTENT OPENS OR SHORTS

 

l Key on, engine off.

 

l DVOM connected between Test Pin 27 and Test Pin 46 at breakout box.

 

-- Grasp the vehicle harness closest to the EVP sensor connector. Shake and bend a small section of the EEC-IV harness while working toward the dash panel. Also wiggle, shake and bend the EEC-IV harness from the dash panel to the PCM.

 

l Is a fault indicated?

 

Yes

ISOLATE fault and SERVICE as necessary. CLEAR Continuous Memory (REFER to Quick Test Appendix, «Section 5A»). RERUN «Quick Test».

 

No

LEAVE DVOM connected and GO to «DN92».

 

DN92 CHECK VOLTAGE WHILE EXERCISING EGR VALVE

 

l Disconnect vacuum hose at EGR valve and connect a vacuum pump.

 

l Key on, engine off.

 

l Measure voltage between Test Pin 27 and Test Pin 46 at the breakout box while performing the following:

 

-- Slowly apply 5-10 in-Hg (17-34 kPa) of vacuum to EGR valve, then slowly bleed vacuum.

 

l Does the voltage increase and decrease steadily from no more than 4.81 volts to no less than .24 volt?

 

Yes

Unable to duplicate and/or identify fault at this time. For further diagnosis using the EEC-IV monitor box or Scan Tool, REFER to «Section 7A».

 

No

REPLACE EVP sensor. REMOVE breakout box. RECONNECT all components. RERUN «Quick Test».

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