MSD-8532 RTR Distributor Install Help

[Bully Bob]

"..Is there a way to check for engagement?"

Using a 1/4" socket drive & a long extension.....you should be able to turn the shaft with resistance...meaning it is in fact, driving the oil pump. Obviously, if no resistance., it's not engaged in the pump.

Having said that., again, be very careful you don't loose the socket down into the eng.

This task is usually done to "prime" the oiling on a new motor.., or one that's been sitting a while.

(there is an actual "tool" avail. for doing this., & they're driven by a drill motor)

You can "jam" the socket on the extension., or even weld it on an old set.

As for all the up-grades..., I would hold off..!

I think this is just a freaky problem that you can/will get past.

BTW., did you put grease on the "O" ring...? ... poss. it's just a very tight fit.

Try your old dizzy W/O the "O" ring.?

 

[Jimmy Neutron]

I will go out and try the extension/socket/drill procedure here in a minute...

The old dizzy is no longer in one piece. I dismantled it for a new, shiny prime shaft.

I have tried the new dizzy without the o-ring and it is all lubed up!

The oil pump upgrades may be needed if it is found out that the oil pump is not working or if the oil pump shaft is out of wack. That is why those questions where posted. The list of possible future upgrades was given for a better knowledge of what the demands of a future oil pump will be.

 

[Bully Bob]

"I will go out and try the extension/socket/drill procedure here in a minute..."

Turn by hand at first, with a ratchet.., so as to "feel" the resistance. May take a few turns to prime the pump.

If you're actually getting resistance/press. you don't actually have to use thr drill motor.

(D. motor should only be used when one is sure the shaft is seated.)

The oil pumps are pretty tough.....were you having any oil press. issues prior to the dizzy swap..?

 

[Jimmy Neutron]

How long are these oil pump shafts supposed to be?

From what I can tell, I am only seeing a ~4" shaft. This is practically laying across the engine, with a flashlight, a magnet on a stick, staring down a dark hole, trying to bend my vision around a corner; so I could be off a bit.

I started by taking a 6" extension and a deep well socket. I wrapped the end of the extension with a paper towel before jamming on the socket for a secure connection. I then removed the chuck from my cordless drill (I like that feature) and tightly clamped the extension in the chuck. I started sliding this assembly down the cylinder for a better feel of the tool just created. I figured with the weight of the drill I would not be able to feel as much.

At first, I had the same feeling I have been with the dizzy's, a sudden stop. I could tell that the shaft did not enter the socket at all, that I was bouncing off the end laying against the side of the cylinder. After some wiggling, I was able to feel it slide into the socket. After that, I could spin it like I used to spin the bottle, if you know what I mean. Spinning quarters on a table is just about as difficult. So, I think it is time to pull the pan.

What do you all think?

 

[Jimmy Neutron]

I wish I could tell you if I were having oil pressure issues.

I bought the Bronco a few years back but have only been able to run it for about 4 months total. What I have found in that four months is the only gauge that works is the speedo, and that is about 8 miles an hour off. All the other gauges act as if they work without actually working. I just noticed the other day that the oil pressure gauge reads that all is well and good without the engine even running. The guy before me was some kind of wiring genius.... lol! But they are some kind of knock-off cheap no-brand gauge.

What I am finding out by working on it is that I think the motor has been built up a bit... but it is hard for me to tell. The heads are definitely not stock, neither is the timing set. Other than that, I am unsure of the internals of this engine.

My next parts order will include all the necessary gauges; oil temp, oil pressure, water temp, amp meter, tach, fuel level, fuel pressure, and probably a trans temp for kicks.

I just cannot justify the expense without at least having this Bronco fire and run without constant attention. All I want is for the wife to climb in and touch the key for it to start and idle. Then she will want it fixed instead of me talking her into it.

Before I tore the ignition out, I had to feather the throttle to keep it running and spray ether down her throat to get it started. This all began a while back when I ran to the hardware store. I forgot something, as usual, so I needed to go back. I went out and tried to start it... nothing. I checked spark -no spark. Changed points -got spark. I checked fuel -iffy. Checked pump and fuel lines -replaced dry-rotted fuel lines. Checked timing -looked ok. Tried starting -wouldn't start. Tore down to check timing set -timing set ok. Put her back together, let her sit for a while. (lost my patience) Came back to her, changed points along with condenser. Got it to run long enough for 12 minute ride. Towed it back home, let her sit for a while again. Came back to her- messed with timing and got her to run for 2-3 minutes feathering the throttle. Let her sit again. (It got really cold out) Decided to upgrade the dizzy, and here we are.

 

[Bully Bob]

WOW..!

That's a great story.....! & that's the type rig I love to bust my knuckles & rack my brain on..!!!

I actually envy you...... ^_^ /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

Here's another thought..I'm wondering if the retainer clip has somehow worked it way down...so as not to allow the shaft to enter its seat..?

Maybe try pushing down on the shaft with some slight turns if poss.

---OR--- if no success.,

Maybe the clip is off & covering the seat hole...?

I don't know what else to make of this...??

Before I pulled the pan.., I might even try gripping & pulling the shaft out......even if the clip fell into the pan...it's too small to hirt & would just lay on the bottom. You might then be able to see down in there.....

---just a thought----

I've not seen a dizzy/oil-pump shaft damaged..but anything is poss.

Maybe the orig. dizzy was locked in place W/O being fully seated...? Did you notice if it was fully stabbed in when removing..?

I couldn't find my spare shaft... Seems to me it was more like 5-6 inches long..

ALSO..,

Don't give up...!!

It's all fixable & will eventually "purr like a kitten"..!

 

[Jimmy Neutron]

Thanks for the words of encouragement!!

The old dizzy was fully seated. I am sure of that... I remember checking before I pulled it.

I will work on it more tomorrow. I doubt I can get a pair of pliers down to the top of the oil shaft to try and slide it up and out, letting the retainer drop. We will see tomorrow!

It would help if I have ever seen one of these up close and personal. Or at least some decent pictures. All that the speed shops have in their description may not even be the one I have -they are not too good of pictures for what I need anyway.

Thanks again!

~J

 

[Bully Bob]

"It would help if I have ever seen one of these up close and personal."

I've bought them B/4..(assuming you mean the oil dr. shaft)

NAPA., Autozone., Checker., I think most all of them have them.

Maybe even some really long skinny needle-nose pliers. :^o

 

[Jimmy Neutron]

I may have to go get one for looks... they are cheap at less than $5.00!!

 

[BLADE262US]

That clip will not give it up easy . I think the best thing to do here would be to stop and think for a second . The original dizzy was in and seated correct ? The oil pump drive shaft would be very difficult to hurt in there . The end has a taper to it so that it will align with the distribitor shaft . The shaft will have side to side movement in the block hole without the dizzy as a guide so that is completely normal . The shaft should also be setting about 1/8 th to 3/16 below the surface of the block where the dizzy hole is this too is normal . So if the original fit and all was good the only thing that has changed is the new dizzy soooooo we must look at that closer . Look at the end of it veryify that it is 1/4 hex ( do you have any 1/4 ***** driver bits see if they will fit its the same size ) does the dizzy have a lead in or taper to the end of it ? Did they leave it squared off ? The problem lies with the new dizzy thats the only thing that has changed . /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

 

[Jimmy Neutron]

Sometime the simplist of solutions evade me!!

I will check into this in a minute... be right back...

(by the way, I have completely updated my profile -check it out!!)

 

[Bully Bob]

Blade is correct but..,

If you can't run the pump with a socket & extension....what works on the dizzy end is academic.

---FWIW

The shaft is the same as an allan wrench W/O the 90deg. bend.

On my I-6 a 5/16" allan fits in....odd the V/8 is smaller.

I can wiggle the shaft., but it will not touch the side-wall.

 

[Jimmy Neutron]

I took pictures to help illustrate...

This is a pick of the new dizzy with a 1/4 hex shoved up it's tail end:

(notice I have it marked with my thumb)



Here is a pick of the hex shoved into the business end of my fancy new oil pump primer:

(notice the gap between my thumb and the shaft)



So, I guess the obvious is not the solution... DRATS!!!

Remember, the oil pump shaft does not have any resistance when spinning and I can see the retainer whirring around and round... or do I need to hook that bad boy up to a drill?? I did not do that step 'cause it spun so freely...

 

[Jimmy Neutron]

Here are a few somewhat crappy pics of the shaft:

 

[Bully Bob]

Ha..! over 200 folks follow'n this post....like a soap opera...!!!

Hard to tell but it looks like the shaft is bent fr. look'n at the pics down in the hole.

(appears to be leaning toward the front of the eng.)

Can you move it to any other point against the sidewall or is it pretty much set against that position..?

I wouldn't use the drill just yet....you're turning a pump design simular to a "wankle" (rotary) engine.

There should be some resistance.

When I use the drill motor. there's resistance & when the press. builds., you can hear the drill motor slow down..!

Spinning with a d-motor may insure you'll be removing the pan.

 

[Jimmy Neutron]

The shaft will lean pretty much anywhere except to the passenger side...

I will probably end up pulling the pan to see what exactly is going on before proceeding. I want to physically check the pump and shaft since those two seem to be the culprit.

Once those are pulled, I will attempt to drop the dizzy in... if she seats without all the fuss -we will have our answer!!

What all should I check out with the oil pan pulled?

 

[Bully Bob]

"What all should I check out with the oil pan pulled?"

Since we all pretty much started in the middle here., Isn't this a "mystery" eng.?

Meaning someone re-worked it in the recent past....

Were you able to get any info. about what crank/cam was used from the prev. owner.?

I think I would want to do a compression test first.,

Then with the pan off, check for debris on the pan floor.

Might be able to learn if the crank is stock.

I always pull a few rod caps/bearings & inspect, & re-torque.

With the dizz./shaft/pump "solved"....I would test remove & install the Dizzy a few times B/4 installing the pan.

Might want to talk to a local mechanic for other important pointers.

Since it never ran correctly., what do you know about the timing chain?

Who knows., maybe it's a tooth off.?

Check me but the timing marks are on the harmonic balancer, as I recall....& the pointer is pinned to the timing chain.

 

[Jimmy Neutron]

This engine sure is a mystery...

When I bought it, I asked if everything was stock as far as the running gear goes. The responce I got was that the front brakes were swapped with Chevy parts to convert to disc brakes. I was not told of anything else. As a matter of fact, they told me that the carb was a 750cfm... it is a Edelbrock 1405 -a 600cfm. That tells me they did not even know what was on it!

I know for a fact that the front timing set is right where it is supposed to be. Tore that down last year to check! The timing set has been upgraded to a COMP Cams 3120 set.

I also learned that the harmonic balancer shaft was cracked, so I bought a repair sleeve and installed it. The timing marks are there, but with everything installed on the front of the engine, the marks are not visible. There is no pointer, so timing marks do not mean a whole lot to me! There was not one when I bought it...

What I have learned about it during this episode is that the heads are from a similar year mustang. Bronco spark plugs will not fit, but 1971 Mustang ones do!

I will perform the compression test first. That is not a bad idea...

 

[Jimmy Neutron]

I will start wrenching when Sarah goes off to work. She starts at 2pm, so that is right around the corner.

I will take pictures of items of interest and come back in and post what I have found every once in a while.

 

[Bully Bob]

KEWL...!

HAY MECHANICS....!!!

I know there's some great gear-heads out there.... B)

Feel free to jump in with some fresh/diff. points of view here....!! >

I'm sure this whole senerio is, or will be, helpful to some other EB folks.

I've run out of ideas., & as you know, it is not easy to diagnose over a keyboard... :blink:

One last thing... did you measure/mike the two high-points on the new dizzy..?

Meaning everything fr. the "O" ring down is exactly the same as the old dizzy..?