Keep Burning up Starters

[cpratt1999]

My 93 351w Bronco has been a world of trouble these last few months. I recently replaced the engine, heads, intake/plenum, roller rockers, cam (twice) etc. and it would not start. I later discovered that the heads I had ordered were two different versions of the E7 heads, and were questionably shot. So I replaced the heads after cleaning out the old ones thoroughly.

Well long story short; I have now replaced the battery, cables, ground wires to the engine and battery, the battery cables, and every wire connecting to the starter. I replaced the OE one because it had finally seized (and after 210k miles it did pretty darn good if you ask me), and I replaced it with a high torque starter that I had purchased from www.dbelectrical.com. It cranked a few times, and now it just clicks. I tried re-wiring the power/grounds, and I even tested the wiring to ensure that I am getting 12.5-13 volts (which I seem to be).

It's possible that I may have just gotten another defective starter since it's typically hit or miss with reman. parts, but before I fork out 150 bones to buy a high-torque/new starter-is it possible that something else may be causing the starters to repeatedly fail?

 

[AdamDude04]

Could be a number of things honestly..

what I would do, is buy a starter (any cheap, but quality one) from a autopart store. I think I paid $30 for mine.. try that for a few days or a couple weeks. Then if that works, keep it, get the super duper one, and keep the one you just bought as a spare incase the super one burns out again too?

..that's what I would do. But most likley, it's just the starter. Not really hard to ***** that up unlike you get an electrical spike, even then, it'd probably hit the ECU and all other electornics..

 

[miesk5]

yo,

I'd take that re-man starter to Advance Auto or NAPA and have it bench tested.

If you don't like the method that they use; esp if they do it while you are not there, then take it to an Auton Electric Shop.. find one that the truckers use and get it benched there.

May as well take the Relay (on pass inner fender) too and have it tested... since you wrote; "...and now it just clicks.. I ASSume that means the Relay Clicks.. or does the Starter or starter Solenoid Click?

Check out wiring & this;

Parts Break Out Diagram, Overview & System Diagram, PMGR (Permanent Magnet Gear Reduction) in 92-96; starter specs: "...Motor Diameter: 3", Current Draw Under Normal Load: 140-200A, Current Draw Under Maximum Load: 800A, Current Draw Under No Load: 60-80A, Normal Engine Cranking Speed: 200-250 RPM, Min. Stall Torque @ 5 Volts: 11 ft-lbs, Brush Length (New): 0.66"...AND FSA 93B35 Starter Solenoid Inspection & Possible Replacement"

Source: by Steve83 (Steve, That dirty old truck) at SuperMotors.net

READ THAT FSA 93B35 Starter Solenoid Inspection & Possible Replacement even tho it does not specificaly apply to your year/tranny type...

FSA 93B35 Starter Solenoid Inspection & Possible Replacement

Wiring Diagram & Instructions for PMGR (Permanent Magnet Gear Reduction) 92-96

Source: by Texas Industrial Electric Co. http://texasindustrialelectric.com/techinfo_fd.asp

as far as dbelectrical's quality is concerned... read this"haven't bought their alternators, but I just bought a hi torque starter and am currently waiting for my second one from them. The first one didn't do much more than click most of the time. I will say this though... Their customer service is by far the best I have EVER experienced. THE BEST. Period. And, I will also say that when the starter did work (about 30% of the time) it started my truck faster than I ever thought possible. I cannot wait to try the new starter and when my alternators die I will not hesitate to buy those from dbelectrical.

http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/f24/any-problems-db-electrical-alternators-220587/

so, that is just one review using a Google search for dbelectrical review

 

[cpratt1999]

yo,

I'd take that re-man starter to Advance Auto or NAPA and have it bench tested.

If you don't like the method that they use; esp if they do it while you are not there, then take it to an Auton Electric Shop.. find one that the truckers use and get it benched there.

May as well take the Relay (on pass inner fender) too and have it tested... since you wrote; "...and now it just clicks.. I ASSume that means the Relay Clicks.. or does the Starter or starter Solenoid Click?

Check out wiring & this;

Parts Break Out Diagram, Overview & System Diagram, PMGR (Permanent Magnet Gear Reduction) in 92-96; starter specs: "...Motor Diameter: 3", Current Draw Under Normal Load: 140-200A, Current Draw Under Maximum Load: 800A, Current Draw Under No Load: 60-80A, Normal Engine Cranking Speed: 200-250 RPM, Min. Stall Torque @ 5 Volts: 11 ft-lbs, Brush Length (New): 0.66"...AND FSA 93B35 Starter Solenoid Inspection & Possible Replacement"

Source: by Steve83 (Steve, That dirty old truck) at SuperMotors.net

READ THAT FSA 93B35 Starter Solenoid Inspection & Possible Replacement even tho it does not specificaly apply to your year/tranny type...

FSA 93B35 Starter Solenoid Inspection & Possible Replacement

Wiring Diagram & Instructions for PMGR (Permanent Magnet Gear Reduction) 92-96

Source: by Texas Industrial Electric Co. http://texasindustrialelectric.com/techinfo_fd.asp

as far as dbelectrical's quality is concerned... read this"haven't bought their alternators, but I just bought a hi torque starter and am currently waiting for my second one from them. The first one didn't do much more than click most of the time. I will say this though... Their customer service is by far the best I have EVER experienced. THE BEST. Period. And, I will also say that when the starter did work (about 30% of the time) it started my truck faster than I ever thought possible. I cannot wait to try the new starter and when my alternators die I will not hesitate to buy those from dbelectrical.

http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/f24/any-problems-db-electrical-alternators-220587/

so, that is just one review using a Google search for dbelectrical review

Wow! Great find! That's exactly what I am having problems with too. It started a few times and CLICK CLICK.. p.o.s.

I replaced the relay since it was the original one and cheap, but no change. I took out the starter yesterday and bench tested it myself at home, and the Bendix gear wasn't spinning. It's totally seized. I pounded the tar out of it w/ a hammer and still couldnt break it free. Time for a new one. >-

Locally they go for about $130 for a reman. Summit has a high torque one for $140 so I think I'll go with Summit.

Thanks for your help guys! >- /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />>- >- /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />>- >-

 

[miesk5]

yw cp and thanks for getting back here with your findings.

The Bendix.. that is a time-tested device, BUT so many rebuilders ***** it up. The worst cases I've seen resulted in real messes and tragedies..on Navy LCVPs... much bigger 24 v system, but the same design.. itsa mf when you can't get that diesel started and hung-up on some beach

 

[cpratt1999]

yw cp and thanks for getting back here with your findings.

The Bendix.. that is a time-tested device, BUT so many rebuilders ***** it up. The worst cases I've seen resulted in real messes and tragedies..on Navy LCVPs... much bigger 24 v system, but the same design.. itsa mf when you can't get that diesel started and hung-up on some beach

Ok so now I'm stumped again. $160 on a new starter (not rebuilt) and not even ten minutes after trying to start it up the damn thing smokes and starts clicking again.....AAARRRGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!

I am completely at a loss here. Any ideas? Thanks folks

cp

 

[miesk5]

Is the Bendix blown? Have to roll soon, will bbl or Sat/Sunday.

Anyway have to have that bad starter inspected; try an auto electric shop locally. The one that the truckers go to for alts, starters, wiring etc,

if so, a few thAngs could be off aside from the Starter, none too good, sorry.

If the starter pinion is being damaged in this way, the gear meash is too sloppy. The pinion needs to be closer to the ring gear. If there are no shims installed, then material needs to be machined off of the mounting surface of the starter. Optionally, shim the outboard starter mounting bolt only. This will roll the starter towrd the ring gear, tightening its engagement.

Another possiblity is that the ring gear itself could be out of round, egg-shaped. This is especially possible with new, inexpensive ring gears. Check the pinion to ring gear engagement dimensions in at least six places 60 degrees apart on the flex plate.

It is normal for a gear reduction starter to hang in the ring gear when the engine is cranked, and yet does not start. Direct drive starters do not do this because they can rotate the small amount necessary to retract the pinion. Gear reduction starters do not retract in this situation because of the resistance of the gears. The tiny amount of rotation necessary to retract the pinion is amplified in the gear ratio inside the starter, requiring four to five times the rotation insude the starter. All of this gear movement results in the pinion remaining in the ring gear until the engine fires.

by powermastermotorspors.com

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Drives, Exploded, Ford 2 bolt type, Shims needed due to worn ****** bearings in engine; "...This condition is the result of the drive engaging too deeply into the flywheel. The face of the drive is rubbing on the flywheel and gradually cutting into the cover that holds the drive together. Eventually, it cuts through and the drive comes apart. The damage is not caused by a problem with the starter. It is because the flywheel is floating as a result of worn ****** bearings, located inside the engine block, whose function is to keep the crankshaft centered. This wear can be enough to cause starter and ring gear engagement problems on an engine with 60,000 or more miles. It might take a long time to destroy the original starter, but when a new unit is installed, the drive can be quickly destroyed. Therefore, it is important to properly diagnose this problem when inspecting the customers original core rather than providing him a replacement unit. Shims are availalbe from OCA, part number F.S.S.2B

Source: by mrreman.com via web.archive.org

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Ensure that the Part # is for an auto tranny if that is what you have; assuming it is an E4OD since you have the 5.8; but since the orig started went, discount this

Difference between Automatic & Manual Transmission; "...The locating circle on the face of a Ford starter is made to different dimensions for manual and automatic transmissions. This keeps a person from mixing the two starters up since they look similar. If the starter does not fit in the hole in the intermediate plate, this indicates that a person either has the wrong starter or the wrong intermediate plate. Do not enlarge this hole or grind on the tsarter to make it fit, instead change the incompatible part. pre-1975 (auto) and pre 1980 (truck) manual transmissions ONLY. Part # 9162 is for automatic and 1975 and later (auto) and 1980 and later (truck) manual transmissions..."

Source: by powermastermotorsports.com