Howdy all...

[Jimbo26]

Sorry Jimbo26, just saw this.
I have a lot of EEC1V speed density experience. But mostly diagnostics, stock. I know the pcm will get cranky if the vacuum at idle is low or unsteady due to big overlap (lobe separation)
But not sure where the line is.
What are you planning?
When you say F4block, are you talking roller 5.8?

Affirmative-
Looking at the roller block with perhaps a set of 9.5-1 or 10-1 flat tops, Stock profile roller cam and (on the outsidelimit) a set of aluminum heads with the full steel roller rocker setup. I figure that should yield some fair mileage #s.......If it won't cause a processor hizzy-fit.

 

[Jimbo26]

Jimbo26,

Welcome to Bronco ownership. The fuel tank replacement was not unusual on that vintage. I have a 90' (mine since 91') and the OEM fuel tanks (not all) had a tendency to develop leaks---serious leaks! Came home one night to a puddle of gas in my garage. That tank was replaced was replaced in the late 1990's with a less problematic version, and so far, no leaks. Long term storage issues related to fuel systems will relate to what the fuel integrity was like by the previous owner(s), i.e: did they store it with a stabilizer additive (?) did they store it full (?). Lastly, if you can send me a pic of your odometer, I can give you a pretty good guess if yours has turned over once. Even with paint that needs attention, any older Bronco with 40K miles on it would command prices in the five figure range. Looks like the interior is in pretty good shape. Given that it was an EB, a previous owner may have opted for seat covers.
L\Bronco speaks truth. Stick with the 5.8 and limit any headaches.

Ablediver out

Thanks, A/D
Understood. Yes, letting things sit for eons as such will cause rot in more ways then one.
I have little to no history on this vehicle other then what I can guesstimate from experience. I have a # for a previous owner who I am assuming was the original. <Will attempt to contact asap & visit>
Arky title had the mileage listed at approx 33k when the lien was released and title issued out to the then owner. The person that acquired it next evidently had it for a time- long enough to rack up another 10k mi. and they did abuse some things, mainly thru neglect, tore the muffler off (have a flowmaster 50 ready to replace the empty Loud spot) and quite apparent they ran the back roads plenty with all the windows down, ingesting much dust on things. Cleanup has been ongoing. Every time I open a panel- more dust to clean out. Seems somebody cleaned up the basics on occasion, but the hidden stuff tells all. Odd enough the factory radio still works but the cassette player mechanism is jammed & won't allow a tape to lock down in.
I hear ya on the fuel leaks, that kinda stuff can be plain dangerous and even more if somebody is smoking.
Hope that pic is clear enough for you to evaluate.

 

[L\Bronco]

Hard to say for sure, Sounds like it should behave though. Id stay around 9.5-9.8 so you can run 87 if the cost is a factor.\
Cheers

 

[Jimbo26]

Hard to say for sure, Sounds like it should behave though. Id stay around 9.5-9.8 so you can run 87 if the cost is a factor.\
Cheers

Hey L,
Everything around fuel cost is a factor anymore, thanks to the idiot communist party. (I must restrain from going any further down that trail, so enough said)
Yes, top gas is too $ mucho, but mid grade >89< may work for 10-1?
Always methanol/water injection kits available, yes?

 

[L\Bronco]

Mid should work for 10 to 1, water/M E T H helps a lot too.
Plus you can always dial the timing back a bit if it pings.
Cheers

 

[Jimbo26]

".. dial the timing back a bit if it pings."

Im assuming the processor would override any such adjustment in favor of its 'carved in stone' parameters, unless the SpouT plug was pulled and left out...?

How that would affect driveability on a long term basis leaves me to wonder.
Surely these particular vintage EEC4 systems had some sort of knock sensor/timing r e t a r d in the equation?

Salud

 

[dawggg (steve)]

No takers, oh well......

https://www.broncozone.com/members/miesk5.3816/ this dude knows everthang...

 

[L\Bronco]

How that would affect driveability on a long term basis leaves me to wonder.
Surely these particular vintage EEC4 systems had some sort of knock sensor/timing r e t a r d in the equation?

Salud

I don't think the older 5.0and 5.8's had a knock sensor.
If you set the base to 12, the timing curve is 2 deg higher across the board. Same would hold true for less.
That's the reason for a base timing adjustment. The PCM only knows how much its adding or taking away based on the software. Without a knock sensor there's no feedback to adjust from.
Any time you alter the base engine, you run the risk of a drivability fiasco.
In the middle of it now with my 79 restomod.
Hope that helps\
Cheers

 

[Jimbo26]

I don't think the older 5.0and 5.8's had a knock sensor.
If you set the base to 12, the timing curve is 2 deg higher across the board. Same would hold true for less.
That's the reason for a base timing adjustment. The PCM only knows how much its adding or taking away based on the software. Without a knock sensor there's no feedback to adjust from.
Any time you alter the base engine, you run the risk of a drivability fiasco.
In the middle of it now with my 79 restomod.
Hope that helps\
Cheers

Okie doke. Thanks again.
I have more 'homework' to do. All goes ok, will have the tailgate back together & operational this evening.

 

[Jimbo26]

All back together. That was kind of a chore. Some of the new trim sure does make it awful tight.

 

[ablediver]

Jimbo,

Great pic of your odo. Nice and clear. The 441 lines up even and you can see where the 3 is about to turn evenly to the 4 from the nine. It looks legit. It also seconds the discolored paint on the indicator needles --it sat parked in the same place, daily for a a while. Also, why there's dust everywhere. My 96' came from AZ and there was dust everywhere --inside the tailgate, the light housings, etc. My 90' sat in a dry garage and doesn't have 1/10 the dust inside the crevasses.

BTW--the 87-91's are notorious for moisture accumulation inside the bottom of the tailgate. They rot out right at the bottom seam. In the 92-96' models, Ford cut drain holes in the stamping of the tailgate. You see, when the window is wet and goes up/ down, the mouldings on the glass act as a squeegee and force the water down the interior of the tailgate. Enough said there. If your tailgate hasn't begun to rust there, keep an eye on it from inside that inspection plate you've taken off.

Now, at this point, the mileage looks legitimate. I wouldn't celebrate yet, it does mean that your fluids (coolant, trans., transfer, and axles) haven't been changed. Right money, well spent, get 'em changed. Along with the radiator hoses (both), the heater hoses, and the belts. This preventative maintenance will provide reliability and longevity. I've heard countless stories from guys with lift kits and big tires with blown drivetrains, because they never changed their fluids. Ablediver speak truth on this. Ablediver drove tractor-trailers for twenty years and lots of miles. Preventative maintenance will always protect your ride.

Ablediver out

 

[ablediver]

For what it's worth (FWIW), I learned the part about changing the hoses the hard way one night . I was working the night shift (3p-3a) and on my way home through the country on the big road, BOOM. Blew a crossover hose in my 77' Plymouth Fury surplus plainclothes cruiser (cop tires, cop shocks, cop hoses, you get it..) Almost cooked the engine nursing it to get to the next exit 17 miles away. Lesson learned.

Ablediver out

 

[Jimbo26]

Hey there A/D,
I see we concur on things. Everything I've run into indicates the thing was sat-up for a extended time at one point. (changed the rear wheel brake cyls out today, both froze solid)
When I was inside the tailgate and had it gutted, did a thorough inspection and found very little rust. What I did find got the Black Star rust killer treatment, then l u be oil on the tension crossbar points as well.
Had to scrub a load of caked dust-dirt crud off the lower seal areas and it took multiple go overs to finally uncake the rubber seal itself.
Far as l u be oils go, the thing is getting a total go-thru. Transfer was 1st, oil looked ok but OLD. (Even odds was factory) It got RP Max ATF.
Next was the E4od- same deal. Purged Everything, TC drained, disconnected the cooler lines and aired out, new filter and fresh ATF.
Rear diff is next.
Some goober-haid knocked the OD cancel switch out of the dash, so had to JB-wld the bosses back in. Didn't feel like taking the whole panel off so that was a PITA getting all that back together- done. Nice to have a complete dash panel again.
I hear ya about all the other P/M. I see you've put your time in OTR and had some 'fun' to go with it. That's part of the deal there. 1 year of it was enough for me- back to turning wrenches.
Still at the testing stage with this Bronc, so the hoses and all will wait until we are ready for a full shakedown cruise.
Doesn't look like the engine is going to make it after the back-road abuse. Going after a good used F4 engine tomorrow. Working on a 'formula' that should prove to be an effective transplant.
Sounds like HMS Furious gave you an interesting turn. Let me guess, you still had half a pack of cigs, were wearing dark sunglasses but were on a mission from God.......Hit It.
Main thing is you got there.
What in hll is with this **** stuff? I can't even spell out the word l u b e?
Whatever kind of text watchdog this forum has is sorta

☭​

overboard.

 

[ablediver]

Copy that Jimbo. It'd be worth an hour to check your compression. It'll be a good yardstick for how much time you've got left on that engine. While you're there , put in a set of plugs, it'll help it run right. You can always take them out for spares if you change the engine. I'd also clear out the fresh air intake from the engine side out. There may be a whale-boat load of stuff in there decreasing your performance like mouse-nests, acorns, who knows what else rodents leave in their interim homes. Best of luck.

Ablediver out.

 

[Jimbo26]

The results of a compression test a couple weeks ago.
The insides of the rubber tubes that go from the the airbox to the Tb were powder-dust coated, just like the insides of pretty much everything else ive gone into. Way to wipe out a set of rings- run it w/o a air filter!
The remedy- salvage '97 roller engine.
Will be going a ways into the roller to make sure all is in good shape before it gets swapped in.
If it's gonna get done- might as well do it right the 1st time.

 

[ablediver]

Jimbo,
I saw the compression readings you provided. There's a greater than 10% difference in more than one of the cylinders. I agree with you on the dust into the intake. It looks like you have a takeout engine on hand. I had the option about 30+ years ago to replace a 302 with a take out 'yard engine or a reman engine for a about 20% more with a warranty. I took the ' yard engine and it was showing its age in about six months. You've got what looks like a solid chassis worth some money down the road. If it were me, I'd take the reman or crate engine, but that's my opinion. It's still a great ride whatever you choose to do. Best of luck brother.

Ablediver out

 

[goodO1boydws]

The results of a compression test a couple weeks ago.
The insides of the rubber tubes that go from the the airbox to the Tb were powder-dust coated, just like the insides of pretty much everything else ive gone into. Way to wipe out a set of rings- run it w/o a air filter!
The remedy- salvage '97 roller engine.
Will be going a ways into the roller to make sure all is in good shape before it gets swapped in.
If it's gonna get done- might as well do it right the 1st

I looked at your test results.
Yes, there is a huge difference between cylinder readings.

My 2 cents.

First, did you check the valve clearances?
Engines with hydraulic lifters that sit for a long time often have collapsed lifters that may or may not free up. If you've got some stuck lifters, the pressure readings will be wacky on the cylinders involved.

I've found that people do their engine compression testing in all sorts of ways, with the test cylinder being dry or wet, all plugs in- or only the one being tested, engine cold or warm (not hot), 1 revolution vs 4-10 (until the reading no longer climbs).
As a result, depending on method being used, the results can vary tremendously, or be less than the best guide to what is really going on.

I do my testing first dry on a cold engine, then if there is a significant difference between cylinders, wet (5ml or teaspoon of oil), followed by repeating it on a warm engine. At all times the throttle is blocked wide open, all spark plugs out, crank till the reading stops climbing-same number of revs each cylinder, And then do leakdown testing on all if any cylinder is low.

With a low reading cylinder from a DRY compression test, following up by doing a wet test will increase the rings ability to seal, and the pressure would come up considerably (during a 4-10 revolution test), but only for short time and then drop back down again to about what the dry reading was after say 30 revolutions.
(If the low reading is from a head gasket leak any cylinder pressure rise will be comparatively small.)
Just be sure to carefully measure the amount of oil added to each cylinder to ensure accurate results between cylinders.

ANY engine that's been sitting as long as you describe is liable to have had light (or not so light) cylinder rusting-which can degrade the ring sealing and result in low cylinder readings on one or more cylinders.

However, its also a fair bet that one or both head gaskets may be leaking.
2 ADJACENT IDENTICAL LOW READING CYLINDERS is a classic sign of a head gasket leak between them.

Do you have access to equipment needed to do leak down testing-or a air fitting welded to a spark plug shell?
If so, before writing the engine off as a total loss, results of doing that might effect your thinking.

Air leaking into a water passage would show up as bubbles in the radiator.
Air leaking past an exhaust valve would be heard in the tail pipe.
Past an intake valve heard through the carb or throttle body.
Past the rings, it could be heard/felt coming out the valve cover breather or the dipstick tube.
If a leak is direct to the outside of the engine it can be heard or felt by running your hand around the cylinder head.
(If the gasket leak is direct to the valley between the heads it will be heard or felt through the valve cover breather or dipstick tube.)

If leakdown testing shows something OTHER than a serious ring leak, if it was me, I'd at least pull the head on the right side cylinder bank-the one with all the low readings, before deciding to junk the engine and drop major bucks. Particularly if its a Cleveland.

Just curious

 

[Jimbo26]

All good advice and Negative, no valve checks. The thing was so sludged up it took a long time to gouge all the crud out of those areas. A bonna-fide 'quaker state motor'.
Filled a gallon jug up over halfway with the residue.
Comp. test was done dry/cold and i Always run the things 4-8 revs+ to make sure a cyl. builds all its going to.
Before I do yank the thing out, am going to drive it some to see if anything changes for the better. Some road time will tell for sure. Put some Rislone in the fresh oil to see if that will help any. Gotta get a muffler on the thing before any road test is done.
No leak-down equipment or Cleavies in the inventory here either.

 

[goodO1boydws]

All good advice and Negative, no valve checks. The thing was so sludged up it took a long time to gouge all the crud out of those areas. A bonna-fide 'quaker state motor'.
Filled a gallon jug up over halfway with the residue.
Comp. test was done dry/cold and i Always run the things 4-8 revs+ to make sure a cyl. builds all its going to.
Before I do yank the thing out, am going to drive it some to see if anything changes for the better. Some road time will tell for sure. Put some Rislone in the fresh oil to see if that will help any. Gotta get a muffler on the thing before any road test is done.
No leak-down equipment or Cleaves in the inventory here either.

Sounds like the engine came from someone who didn't know engines have a oil pan drain plug. Or CHANGEABLE oil filters.

Are you doing the "2 quarts and drain in 100 miles" method?

 

[Jimbo26]

Sounds like the engine came from someone who didn't know engines have a oil pan drain plug. Or CHANGEABLE oil filters.

Are you doing the "2 quarts and drain in 100 miles" method?

The sludge-O engine is the original one in the Bronc and no, it fell into a nest of 'hillbillies'. Is a wonder it survived in the shape it was in.
The salvage motor was in far better shape, somebody actually changed stuff a bit more often- no residue or sludge accumulation, just a small amount of carbon buildup on the slugs which looks as a typical work truck engine that spent a fair amount of time on 'idle' at the job sites. Didn't take much effort to whirl all that out.