88 won't start with key

[Lonnie's 88custom]

I cannot start my 88 Bronco with the key. When I turn the key to the start position the lights on the dash dim a little so I know it is pulling on the battery. If I put the key in the run position I can start the engine by shorting across the terminals of the solenoid switch. It fires right up. There is plenty of power from the battery. I have replaced the ignition switch on the steering column, the solenlid switch on the fender wall as well as the starter itself. It has the 351w/5.8L engine. I checked the ignition switch rod when I replaced the ignition switch and it is intact and moves with the action of the key. Maybe I'm just missing something obvious...

Does anyone have any suggestions?

 

[Seabronc]

The dimming suggests that there may be a short in the wire that runs from the ignition switch to the start relay. The short would cause a large draw causing the lights to dim. One way to see if that circuit is at fault, is to put the key in run and temporarily apply 12V to the pick coil of the start relay. You can do this by connecting a lead to the battery positive post and touching the other end to the pick coil, (remove the red with blue stripe going to the relay, for obvious reasons, be careful not to touch the jumper wire to the frame). If you get the same result then the ground for the relay may be bad, if it starts then there is most likely a short in the wire running from the key to the relay,(the wire passes through the neutral safety switch down by the transmission).

Good luck,

>-

Here is a diagram of the circuit. Ignore the ignition part of it as that is for an 83 Bronco with EEC, but the start relay circuit is the same. If you have a manual transmission, then the circuit runs through the clutch pedal switch instead of the transmission.

 

[Seabronc]

Please, only post a question in one forum /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> . I deleted the second post.

>-

 

[Lonnie's 88custom]

Please, only post a question in one forum /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> . I deleted the second post.
>-

Sorry about that. I got an error after the first posting. It said the server was busy and I wasn't sure if it took, so I created a new post.

Thanks for the insight. I suspected a short but did not know where to look. Is there a link to the diagram? I cannot seem to see it...

 

[Broncobill78]

Here's all the info from the factory manual for the 88' ignition switch. The troubleshooting parts are what you'll want to read up on. Might be something as simple as a bad ground. I'd troubleshoot the switch, lock-cylinder & actuator-rod adjustment and if those all test good then I'd start looking at my grounds and other electrical issues. The fact that it's dimming the lights when you hit the key suggests that you've got a bad ground or a short. These problems aren't uncommon on 20yr old trucks. If you're up in the rustbelt then there's an even greater chance that it's a short or bad ground caused by salt erosion or rust. they can be difficult to track down but here's as much of the factory/troubleshooting literature as I can give you.

In addition to the info from the 88' factory manual I'm also including the ignition chapter from the EVTM (Electrical, Vacuum Troubleshooting Guide). There's a LOT of info here (enough info that since I've scanned it I'm also going to post it all by it's lonesome in a different thread and maybe one of the Mods will pin it so everyone has access to the same info without it being lost to the archives). Anyways, everything you need to run down an ignition problem is here, do yourself a favor & printout the pages because really, *everything* you need is there.

 

[Lonnie's 88custom]

Here's all the info from the factory manual for the 88' ignition switch. The troubleshooting parts are what you'll want to read up on. Might be something as simple as a bad ground. I'd troubleshoot the switch, lock-cylinder & actuator-rod adjustment and if those all test good then I'd start looking at my grounds and other electrical issues. The fact that it's dimming the lights when you hit the key suggests that you've got a bad ground or a short. These problems aren't uncommon on 20yr old trucks. If you're up in the rustbelt then there's an even greater chance that it's a short or bad ground caused by salt erosion or rust. they can be difficult to track down but here's as much of the factory/troubleshooting literature as I can give you.
In addition to the info from the 88' factory manual I'm also including the ignition chapter from the EVTM (Electrical, Vacuum Troubleshooting Guide). There's a LOT of info here (enough info that since I've scanned it I'm also going to post it all by it's lonesome in a different thread and maybe one of the Mods will pin it so everyone has access to the same info without it being lost to the archives). Anyways, everything you need to run down an ignition problem is here, do yourself a favor & printout the pages because really, *everything* you need is there.

Excellent! I'll save all this to my hard drive too. I agree that it may be easier for me to trace the short/bad ground. I really do not want to tear down that steering column unless I have to... Besides, I'll need to find a wheel puller to get the steering wheel off.

You want to know something funny? While working on the Bronco today, my eight year old son said: "Dad, I found the problem. Those wires under the dash need to be checked. Those there don't look right." From the mouths of babes. Of course, that's where I'll be tomorrow. LOL. /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

Dave, thanks for all the info. I'll let you know what I find.

 

[firstford]

I had that problem with my 1990 i replaced the switch and the cylinder it still didnt work went to the shop the owner had 1 with the same problem he told me to do what he did and put a push button starter i did it works just fine it only cost $5.00.

 

[Rednek]

my 83 had the exact same problem. try changing the battery terminals. when i would go to turn the key. i would get a puff of smoke coming from the battery terminal. (there was a short) and then all the lights,guages,etc. turned off. check all wires for shorts.

Rednek

 

[Lonnie's 88custom]

I had that problem with my 1990 i replaced the switch and the cylinder it still didnt work went to the shop the owner had 1 with the same problem he told me to do what he did and put a push button starter i did it works just fine it only cost $5.00.

After searching all weekend for the short, I'm considering the push button starter option. I've got other issues to resolve that need attention. I can always look for the short later at my leisure once I can start it without having to short across the solenoid switch. I drive it everyday and it is a pain in the a_ _ to keep lifting the hood every time I want to start it. Besides, with car theft what it is in this town it won't be long before the PD gets curious.

I have to change the fuel pressure regulator next to eliminate the rich mixture and carbon buildup. I read about a product called SeaFoam on another site. It sounds like a pretty good product, but wanted to get some opinions from all of you. I look forward to hearing from you all.

Thanks,

Lonnie

B)

 

[Schroder's 84 Bronco]

After searching all weekend for the short, I'm considering the push button starter option. I've got other issues to resolve that need attention. I can always look for the short later at my leisure once I can start it without having to short across the solenoid switch. I drive it everyday and it is a pain in the a_ _ to keep lifting the hood every time I want to start it. Besides, with car theft what it is in this town it won't be long before the PD gets curious.
I have to change the fuel pressure regulator next to eliminate the rich mixture and carbon buildup. I read about a product called SeaFoam on another site. It sounds like a pretty good product, but wanted to get some opinions from all of you. I look forward to hearing from you all.

Thanks,

Lonnie

B)

I like sea foam, I used it after my bronco sat for three yrs while I was stationed overseas. I kept my tank almost empty to not let the gas go bad, When I got it again I filled it and put a can in the tank. I also poured some through the carb and ran some in my oil. After running it through the carb and letting it sit it filled my street with smoke and the neighbors weren't happy. But to sum it up good product, you may also want to try some Lucas fuel stabilizer and upper cylinder lubricant. I have used that also and I use it at least once a month. Just my opinion some others may not feel the same.

 

[Lonnie's 88custom]

I like sea foam, I used it after my bronco sat for three yrs while I was stationed overseas. I kept my tank almost empty to not let the gas go bad, When I got it again I filled it and put a can in the tank. I also poured some through the carb and ran some in my oil. After running it through the carb and letting it sit it filled my street with smoke and the neighbors weren't happy. But to sum it up good product, you may also want to try some Lucas fuel stabilizer and upper cylinder lubricant. I have used that also and I use it at least once a month. Just my opinion some others may not feel the same.

Thanks for the reply. One main concern I have is the neighborhood I'm in. I'll probably have to drive out to the desert and use the SeaFoam. It's not far, basically in my back yard but I can see the neighbors getting all wierd about it. But my 88 is due. She's got over 300k miles on her, but still fires right up everyday. It'll be a long process of restoral, part by part, but I think it'll be worth it.

More to come later.

Lonnie

 

[Lonnie's 88custom]

OK, I finally got my codes pulled thanks to some great instructions from BroncoJoe19 (Yoda). I got two codes on the KOEO test. 32 and 67. 67 is a failure of the Neutral Safety Switch circuit. All indications are that the NSS needs to be replaced. SOOO, I got it pulled out today and found that, one, it was caked in grease and oil, and two, it is the one for a C6 with electric shift even though my truck is a manual shift. I didn't discover this until I took it down to Autozone. They tried to sell me the one for manual shift but the connector was wrong. After much searching I found the right one on Rock Auto parts and sure enough, it is also listed as the one for an electric shift C6.

Is it possible the truck was wired for electric shift but built as a manual? Have you heard of this before?

Thanks!

Lonnie

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