351M vs. 351W?

[jonn'athen]

well my friend is trying to sell me his 1978 f-150 custom with what i believe is a 351M (Cleveland?) or a 351W (Windsor) so we can stick the engine in my 1986 bronco2 2.9L V-6. From reading around i know that the windsor is compatible but im still unsure about both of them. right now i am willing to upgrade if i could figure out which is better or even compatible. i think that the stock came from a mustang before the f-150 so im leaning more toward the 351M. if anyone could tell me more on both of them it would be greatly appreciated!

 

[jonn'athen]

whoops sry he has a seventh generation f-150 (1980-82) so it is a 351M (cleveland)

 

[Tennessee Jed]

Now I am rattlin' off the top of my head without research and this is the way I have understood it: the M is built on the 400 cubic inch block with a smaller bore and can use 400 heads that have eight valve cover bolts. The W and C is built on the 302 (5.0 L) block with a larger bore and can use 302 heads with six valve cover bolts. The Winsor is a Canadian cast block and the Cleveland is well cast in...Cleveland Ohio. The M stands for modified and can be cast in W or C. The M therefore is a big block and will not mount on the same trany bell housing your Bronco most likely has, because Broncos did not offer the M option because all Broncos are half ton axled rigs from Ford.

I am sure my memory on this is cloudy, but someone else will add to this so you and me will learn something.

Now let me tell you of my fantasy...When and if Ford revives the Bronco I think they should offer and build it on the truck frame as the did in the fourth and fifth generation. Thusly should offer heavy duty Broncos, B-250 and B-350's with diesel, axle and tranny options as well as a rough work truck models. Here are some drawings I did of the B-150 a few years ago.

 

[BLADE262US]

All motors mentioned have a 4 inch bore its the stroke that changes the displacement on these motors . The CLEVELAND is a very special motor not to be mistaken for an M or 400 . The cleveland is considered a big block but has the physical and dimensional mounting points of a snall block ( good luck with the exhaust on a 351C,M,400 install in a bronco 2 . I had a 351W in mine and that was a sqeeze ) I am not a fan of a 302 but for the ranger bronco 2 swap that is probably your most trouble free swap . /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

 

[jonn'athen]

but that doesn't technically mean that it can't be installed; it would just be a really tight fit: is that what your saying? what about front end suspension or lifting? obviously a bigger engine will put a larger downward force on the front end but would it be enough so that i would need a lift kit? oh yeah im a michigander as well!! :lol:

 

[BLADE262US]

Ok I should have put it like this how much money do you have ? What tools do you have access too ? What are your mechanical and fabrication skills ? These are the things that I personally know are a must you have no choice but to install a body lift there is no option . If you use one of these big blocks you will not be able to have any of the heater box bolted to the firewall you have to notch it for a small block after a 3 inch body lift . With bigger tires you have to brace the driver side frame rail because the frame rail will flex when you turn and it will break at or around the gearbox bolts . You will have to cut the frame back to fit any kind of exhaust on these motors which will weaken it dramatically ( you may get lucky and get a set of fender well exit ones to work ) I have seen a ranger with a 460 but it was strickly drag race and by no means meant to be twisted on a 2 track . The radiator is a major concern that big motor needs cooling and the 2.8 / 2.9 / or even the 4.0 radiator isnt up to that so there will be some serious hacking to get it up front and if you do relocate to the back it will be hotter than **** inside . ( may take care of the lack of heater box issue ) Then you get to the T case you cant use your front driveshaft anymore because it has a male spline on it that plugs into the T case and you cant mate a 1345 to a C6 you can to a C4 for around $400 by way of advance adapters but good luck finding a C4 for a big block unless you have a cleveland then youd be set but still going to be $400 . After that you get to the rear end . The stock 7.5 will puke its guts if you look at the gas pedal funny with a 302 let alone a big block so you might as well start looking for a couple explorer rear ends preferably 97 and up and I say couple because you will probably need a spare until the smoking tire phase wears off . So long story short sure you can if you have 1. the money to have someone else do it or 2 the money and skill and tools/ resources needed to do it yourself . Thats why I said this is one application where a 302 is useful the weight of the vehicle is comparable to the mustang so all the HP parts are right at home . Oh yeah and 1/2 ton springs fitted to the front will be a must . I had to fit 1/2 ton shock/spring towers to mine for the weight of the 351W . They are taller too so I had to use 6 inch springs to maintain my 4 inch lift . I have a 1999 ranger ex cab that Im putting a 351C into and thats why I tell you it doesnt just fit I have cut most all of the original frame away ( it was the newer IFS ) and I still havent gotten it just the way I want and am loking into building my own frame for it if you look around on here youll find pics of the motor and I think the truck too . Its alott of work and must be thought out carefully . A ranger has more options that a B2 /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

 

[jonn'athen]

hey thanks guys that really helped! i have some other concerns i'll probably post, hope to get some help from you in the future! :lol:

 

[BLADE262US]

Good luck putting a 351M or cleveland in a bronco 2 there just isnt enough room for exhaust or a radiator big enough to cool it . Search my post here youll find a very good description of the differences between an M and a C . The windsor is your best bet even though the exhaust is tight . Things you will have to change right off the bat are the rear axle and rear driveshaft . The rear end will pop the outter axle bearings faster than you can put them in and the drive shaft will bounce down the road everytime you look at the gas pedal funny . I used advance adapters for the parts when I did mine that way . C4 conversion ( $500 ) there motor mounts which had a ford number on them ( $180 ) There slick fit headers ( big waste of money ) Explorer rear end preferably 97 and up with disk brakes and a full size bronco driveshaft . /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />