Little By Little
- Thread starter LumbermanSVO
- Start date
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LumbermanSVO
New member
Yeah, while I know the stuff works from years of doing car stereo work, I've never actually done any proper before or after tests to prove it. My microphone will show up tomorrow and testing will begin immediatly. I've already drawn up a spreadsheet to enter numbers into.
Due to the nature of my job, freelance stagehand, it seems like I have lots of time off, but really it's just random. Also, pay seem to come in waves, one of those waves hit this morning. I quickly got my bills caught up, then ordered some parts for the Bronco. The list of stuff I ordered today is:
I work one day over the next 1.5 weeks, so I should make some pretty good headway on this project.
Due to the nature of my job, freelance stagehand, it seems like I have lots of time off, but really it's just random. Also, pay seem to come in waves, one of those waves hit this morning. I quickly got my bills caught up, then ordered some parts for the Bronco. The list of stuff I ordered today is:
- Zapco ST-1500XM
- Precision power DEQ.8 (Digital Sound Processor)
- "Big 3" power wire/distribution/connector kit
- 3G Alternator (ordered from Rock Auto, I'm not a fan of roaming the junk yards)
- 126 Sq Ft of DB-3 Mass Loaded Vinyl (goes on top of the sound deadener I already have)
- New carpet
- Dayton iMM-6 microphone to take measurements with
- Digital Tilt Sensor for my alarm, it'll sense if the car gets towed or jacked up to remove the wheels. I'm gonna put it in the tailgate so I't also tell when it gets opened
I work one day over the next 1.5 weeks, so I should make some pretty good headway on this project.
LumbermanSVO
New member
I plugged my new iMM-6 mic into my iPhone and did some testing on my Bronco today. With the engine off, top closed and windows closed I measured 43db of ambient noise. Part of the reason that number is so high is because of an interstate a couple hundred yards from my house.
Next up I started the car and let it settle to an idle, I measured 56db.
Then I went for a spin, at 35mph I measured 72db, and at 60mph I measured 79db.
I have some more work to do in the blazing sun today, but tomorrow I will start dismantling the interior. Any guesses on how loud the car is without an interior?
Next up I started the car and let it settle to an idle, I measured 56db.
Then I went for a spin, at 35mph I measured 72db, and at 60mph I measured 79db.
I have some more work to do in the blazing sun today, but tomorrow I will start dismantling the interior. Any guesses on how loud the car is without an interior?
LumbermanSVO
New member
Measurements with no interior are in, once the rains lets up I'll start with the sound deadening project.
Parked with the engine off: 47db, up by 4db over stock
At an idle: 60 db, up by 4db
At 35mph: 75db, up by 4db
At 60mph: 83db, up by 4db.
Parked with the engine off: 47db, up by 4db over stock
At an idle: 60 db, up by 4db
At 35mph: 75db, up by 4db
At 60mph: 83db, up by 4db.
Elmo
Member
mine measures in at 78-80 with just the factory buckets up front and bench in the rear, no carpeting no windows and 35x12.50x15 BFG allterrains at 60 on the highway/interstate. i have wanted to add some dynomat but i dont want anything that will hold water after a rain. With the way i have cut up my top and removed the glass it gets wet alot in the summer.
LumbermanSVO
New member
Dynamat, or the generics, won't absorb water.
Elmo
Member
Ahh thats good to learn. Ill have to see about getting some to **** some noise. thanks
LumbermanSVO
New member
I finished up the doors and wanted to run some tests. This time it's still gutted, but with Rattle Trap everywhere but the tailgate. The outer door skins have two layers of Rattle Trap and the inner skins have one layer. I haven't sealed up the holes on the inner door skins yet either.
So it's looking like there will be real improvements. With the non-moving tests at almost stock levels there are definite signs of improvement! It makes me wonder just how much quieter it would be with radial tires instead of mud tires.
Time to move on to installing the foam and MLV...
- Parked: 44db
- Idle: 57 db
- 35mph: 74 db
- 60mph: 82 db
So it's looking like there will be real improvements. With the non-moving tests at almost stock levels there are definite signs of improvement! It makes me wonder just how much quieter it would be with radial tires instead of mud tires.
Time to move on to installing the foam and MLV...
yo,
Great stuff!
Keep it coming please.
Great stuff!
Keep it coming please.
LumbermanSVO
New member
As requested!
So last night I skipped one of the tests I had planned because I was just on a roll as I was working and didn't want to stop. I got the carpet in last night and a couple other bits of the interior. I head out of state for work tomorrow and wanted it to be fairly comfortable on the trip. I've been taking pictures this whole time and I'll get some processed and online while I'm out of town.
This test is with the carpet in with all my sound deadening/absorbing material under it, door panels on, half the right rear panel in (to hide the amp)
So, the test definitely looks off, right? I have a bad window seal on the drivers door and I think that now the wind noise form that is louder than the interior in general. I'll be ordering a new seal in a few minutes. Since I'm gonna have both doors torn all the way down next week to convert to power windows, I might as well replace all the soft parts while I'm in there. I will re run this test once I get that fixed.
I also have all the parts to rebuild the headliner, so I'll do that next week and run another test.
So last night I skipped one of the tests I had planned because I was just on a roll as I was working and didn't want to stop. I got the carpet in last night and a couple other bits of the interior. I head out of state for work tomorrow and wanted it to be fairly comfortable on the trip. I've been taking pictures this whole time and I'll get some processed and online while I'm out of town.
This test is with the carpet in with all my sound deadening/absorbing material under it, door panels on, half the right rear panel in (to hide the amp)
- Parked: 43db, Same as stock
- Idle: 52db, 4db quieter than stock
- 35mph: 69db, 3db quieter than stock
- 60mph: 78db, 1 db quieter than stock
So, the test definitely looks off, right? I have a bad window seal on the drivers door and I think that now the wind noise form that is louder than the interior in general. I'll be ordering a new seal in a few minutes. Since I'm gonna have both doors torn all the way down next week to convert to power windows, I might as well replace all the soft parts while I'm in there. I will re run this test once I get that fixed.
I also have all the parts to rebuild the headliner, so I'll do that next week and run another test.
LumbermanSVO
New member
I'm back from my work trip and taking a day to relax, then tomorrow I'll dig back in to this project. In the meantime, here are some pics.
This test looks a bit off, but I think it's from a bad window seal on the driver side window. The noise the seal make is much more noticeable now than it was before. I now have the parts to fix this and re run this test.
Here is the passenger door covered in FatMat
Here is the back with a layer of Fatmat and 1/4" thick polyfill matting
I used this glue to attach the polyfill matting to the FatMat
Here is the MLV going in on top of the foam. I have some clips to add to the top of each side so it doesn't fold down.
I didn't get a photo of the foam on top of the MLV, but this will give you an idea of what I used. If I were to do it again, I'd seek out some 1/2" instead of the 1" stuff I used. It is just resting on the MLV, and only on the floors. Once I build my new side panels I'll stuff all the extra space with a similar foam.
Due to the thickness of the foam the carpet didn't go in super smoothly, however I was able to make it look good from the front seats. Here you can see the seats and belt puling at the carpet.
I had to make a spacer to bring the throttle pedal away from the firewall so I could actually push it again. I'm gonna have to build something similar for the shift boot so it fits and looks better. With the new carpet, the rest of the interior looks sooo worn! But don't worry, it was on the list to begin with
I cut the right rear panel in half so I had something to cover up my JL amp while I work on the rest of the Bronco. I will be building a rack for a my Zapco to go in next to the JL and the sub in the rear. Then a whole new panel to cover it all up.
And not related to the build, my girlfriend sitting in it on the beaches of Carova on our 4th weekend trip, it was my first time driving in sand, and a lot of fun!
I had a bunch of parts show up while I was at work over the last week. All new rubber for both doors, including the noisy window seals. A little Zapco AG200 50x2 amp that'll be MUCH better for the horns than the MTX. Now I'll use the MTX for aux speakers when camping and such. I have all the parts to replace the headliner too. I'll dig in to the project some more tomorrow.
I came up with an idea for bracing the doors to better handle the 8's, I just need to track down some square tubing and play a bit.
While the measurements don't look great at 60mph yet, I could tell a noticeable difference on my trip. I'm gonna try to knock out both doors tomorrow and re run my last test ASAP.
This test looks a bit off, but I think it's from a bad window seal on the driver side window. The noise the seal make is much more noticeable now than it was before. I now have the parts to fix this and re run this test.
Here is the passenger door covered in FatMat
Here is the back with a layer of Fatmat and 1/4" thick polyfill matting
I used this glue to attach the polyfill matting to the FatMat
Here is the MLV going in on top of the foam. I have some clips to add to the top of each side so it doesn't fold down.
I didn't get a photo of the foam on top of the MLV, but this will give you an idea of what I used. If I were to do it again, I'd seek out some 1/2" instead of the 1" stuff I used. It is just resting on the MLV, and only on the floors. Once I build my new side panels I'll stuff all the extra space with a similar foam.
Due to the thickness of the foam the carpet didn't go in super smoothly, however I was able to make it look good from the front seats. Here you can see the seats and belt puling at the carpet.
I had to make a spacer to bring the throttle pedal away from the firewall so I could actually push it again. I'm gonna have to build something similar for the shift boot so it fits and looks better. With the new carpet, the rest of the interior looks sooo worn! But don't worry, it was on the list to begin with
I cut the right rear panel in half so I had something to cover up my JL amp while I work on the rest of the Bronco. I will be building a rack for a my Zapco to go in next to the JL and the sub in the rear. Then a whole new panel to cover it all up.
And not related to the build, my girlfriend sitting in it on the beaches of Carova on our 4th weekend trip, it was my first time driving in sand, and a lot of fun!
I had a bunch of parts show up while I was at work over the last week. All new rubber for both doors, including the noisy window seals. A little Zapco AG200 50x2 amp that'll be MUCH better for the horns than the MTX. Now I'll use the MTX for aux speakers when camping and such. I have all the parts to replace the headliner too. I'll dig in to the project some more tomorrow.
I came up with an idea for bracing the doors to better handle the 8's, I just need to track down some square tubing and play a bit.
While the measurements don't look great at 60mph yet, I could tell a noticeable difference on my trip. I'm gonna try to knock out both doors tomorrow and re run my last test ASAP.
LumbermanSVO
New member
I'm almost done with the bracing and weather seals on the passenger side. I still have to tie one of the outer braces into the inner braces. Already there is a noticeable difference in how the right speaker sounds compared to the left, and right now I just have some cheap speakers in the stock locations.
Time for pics!
Lets start with the upper braces. I needed a way to tie the brace in to the outer door skin and decided that the mirror mount would make for a good point. the first step was to replace the mirror mounting hardware with something a bit longer.
I replaced all four crews so they match, the top didn't need to be longer though. I didn't notice when I bought then, but the top screws have a different head than the ones I bought for the bottom.
Here is the upper brace, it's 1/2" square steel tubing. I wedged the front into the door then screwed it onto the back side of the mirror mounts. If the front ever comes loose I can secure it on the back side of the door. You can't see in this pic, but I attached it to both lower mirror screws.
Here is the lower brace, it's an awkward pic. I attached it by removing the out trim, then screwing from the outside of the the door into the brace, then I replaced the trim to hide the screws.
Next I added some braces to the inner door and tied it to the upper brace on the outside panel. Now the front upper section of the door feels significantly stronger than the other side.
Here is the inner door bracing.
And this little bad boy is the reasoning behind all the bracing, that's roughly where it'll be going.
Time for pics!
Lets start with the upper braces. I needed a way to tie the brace in to the outer door skin and decided that the mirror mount would make for a good point. the first step was to replace the mirror mounting hardware with something a bit longer.
I replaced all four crews so they match, the top didn't need to be longer though. I didn't notice when I bought then, but the top screws have a different head than the ones I bought for the bottom.
Here is the upper brace, it's 1/2" square steel tubing. I wedged the front into the door then screwed it onto the back side of the mirror mounts. If the front ever comes loose I can secure it on the back side of the door. You can't see in this pic, but I attached it to both lower mirror screws.
Here is the lower brace, it's an awkward pic. I attached it by removing the out trim, then screwing from the outside of the the door into the brace, then I replaced the trim to hide the screws.
Next I added some braces to the inner door and tied it to the upper brace on the outside panel. Now the front upper section of the door feels significantly stronger than the other side.
Here is the inner door bracing.
And this little bad boy is the reasoning behind all the bracing, that's roughly where it'll be going.
yo,
Still keeping an eye on this pal. btw, I mounted tweeters high on B pillar
I think I lost some hearing, so please type in Bold.... :-B
Still keeping an eye on this pal. btw, I mounted tweeters high on B pillar
I think I lost some hearing, so please type in Bold.... :-B
Last edited by a moderator:
LumbermanSVO
New member
Lol, no tweeter needed with the horns, with only 7 watts these horns will rip your head off, and not sound the least bit stressed when doing it! )
I got all my bracing, power windows and new weather seals done today, I was chasing the sun to get it done in time. I'll run another test tomorrow. I threw on "All That Jazz" from the Chicago sound track that wow did that that bracing make a difference. So much more impact from those cheap little 6.5's I have in the doors right now.
I'm gonna prep the headliner for install tomorrow and that'll be the last of my progress until late next month. I have four traveling gigs that I leave for on Wednesday.
)I got all my bracing, power windows and new weather seals done today, I was chasing the sun to get it done in time. I'll run another test tomorrow. I threw on "All That Jazz" from the Chicago sound track that wow did that that bracing make a difference. So much more impact from those cheap little 6.5's I have in the doors right now.
I'm gonna prep the headliner for install tomorrow and that'll be the last of my progress until late next month. I have four traveling gigs that I leave for on Wednesday.
LumbermanSVO
New member
Test results are in, The doors are fully braced and the door panels are on, but I also removed all the parts of the panels while they were off, so there is less mass and sound absorbing material on them.
- Parked: 40db, 3db better than stock
- idle: 56db, Same as stock, I'm not sure if the 52db measurement was correct now or if this one was flawed somehow, but it sounds better to the ear
- 35mph: 69db, 3db better than stock
- 60mph: 77db, 2db better than stock, it was trying really hard to dip down to 76db
LumbermanSVO
New member
I need to put the back seat back in and need to make a spacer for it and get longer bolts. Does anyone know the bolt sizes for the hinges and latch?
Thanks!
Thanks!
LumbermanSVO
New member
Well, last month I was out of town for work all but 5 days of the month! It's nice to be home and I took a few days to relax. Yesterday I started working on the Bronco again, though I leave town for a week on Tuesday, so I'm kinda limited with what I can do.
A couple things of interest. The guy building my volume control ultimately decided that he can't do 8 channels, so he refunded my money. This leaves me with a traditional HU setup, unless I can find some good used AudioControl MVC's, or switch to JL audio XD/HD series amps. Both are expensive options, so I'll stick with my DEH-P800PRS for now.
I stumbled on a build where a guy documented his Ram sound deadening project. While it sounded quieter to him, it measured louder on his meter. It's a strange situation, I suspect his tests weren't consistent enough.
Now, on to the work I did yesterday and today. I mocked up my amp and processor locations. Here is the Zapco 1500 for the subs, and old MTX for external/camping/party use:
Here is the big JL 300/4v1 for the midbass drivers, Zapco AG200 for the horns and PPI processor:
Here is the roof as of this morning:
Not only did I replace the headliner material, but I also put the last of my white foam on the back to help decouple it from the roof:
All put back together:
The metal trim around the headliner is rusty in places. I know I need to clean it up and repaint, but I don't want to lose the factory texture in it. I'm not sure what to do.
I also put the back seat back in. With noting holding the carpet down, it wanted to fly out the back at speed with the top open. With the seat in again, it's no longer an issue. I made some 1/2" spacers to move the seat up a touch so it wont pull at the carpet like the seats up front do. It looks pretty nice back there now:
Right now I have no sound because the amps are all on my bench. When I get back from my next trip I'll build a cargo cover and re-install them and get some sound again.
A couple things of interest. The guy building my volume control ultimately decided that he can't do 8 channels, so he refunded my money. This leaves me with a traditional HU setup, unless I can find some good used AudioControl MVC's, or switch to JL audio XD/HD series amps. Both are expensive options, so I'll stick with my DEH-P800PRS for now.
I stumbled on a build where a guy documented his Ram sound deadening project. While it sounded quieter to him, it measured louder on his meter. It's a strange situation, I suspect his tests weren't consistent enough.
Now, on to the work I did yesterday and today. I mocked up my amp and processor locations. Here is the Zapco 1500 for the subs, and old MTX for external/camping/party use:
Here is the big JL 300/4v1 for the midbass drivers, Zapco AG200 for the horns and PPI processor:
Here is the roof as of this morning:
Not only did I replace the headliner material, but I also put the last of my white foam on the back to help decouple it from the roof:
All put back together:
The metal trim around the headliner is rusty in places. I know I need to clean it up and repaint, but I don't want to lose the factory texture in it. I'm not sure what to do.
I also put the back seat back in. With noting holding the carpet down, it wanted to fly out the back at speed with the top open. With the seat in again, it's no longer an issue. I made some 1/2" spacers to move the seat up a touch so it wont pull at the carpet like the seats up front do. It looks pretty nice back there now:
Right now I have no sound because the amps are all on my bench. When I get back from my next trip I'll build a cargo cover and re-install them and get some sound again.
Seabronc
New member
Looks good. I don't know about the sound level, but that will be the toastiest warm Bronco in the North West this Winter.
>-
>-LumbermanSVO
New member
I guess I forgot to update this board, I moved to Richmond, VA a little under 6 months ago.
You might be surprised at how little heat these amps will generate, the processor will generate practically none. The little Zapco will be powering my compression drivers and it'll generate very little heat. The big Zapco is a modern Class D, so it won't generate much either. The big JL is a Class A/B and will be working hard so it'll generate the most. But even in 100ºf wether and the volume cranked, for a couple hours, it hasn't hit it's thermal limits yet. The MTX will be off most of the time, so it won't be an issue.
I did a couple more tests this morning now that the headliner is back in, results:
Either way, there are real improvements there, especially at speed. It is much more enjoyable to drive and I need less amplifier power to have the music at an enjoyable level. Say I set the music so it was only 3db above the road noise, well now I'd need only 40% of the amp power to do that at 60mph vs. before, and only 31% at 35mph! That is significantly less taxing on the electrical system too!
Tomorrow I head to Alabama for a week or work. When I get back I'll upgrade the alternator and build a cargo cover, then I can remount my amps and get sound again. I also have to take apart the tailgate and get it to stop rattling. I've determined that the tailgate is too rusty to save, so I gotta track down one in good shape, but that'll wait 'til I'm ready to repaint the whole thing.
You might be surprised at how little heat these amps will generate, the processor will generate practically none. The little Zapco will be powering my compression drivers and it'll generate very little heat. The big Zapco is a modern Class D, so it won't generate much either. The big JL is a Class A/B and will be working hard so it'll generate the most. But even in 100ºf wether and the volume cranked, for a couple hours, it hasn't hit it's thermal limits yet. The MTX will be off most of the time, so it won't be an issue.
I did a couple more tests this morning now that the headliner is back in, results:
- Off: 42db - 1db better than stock
- Idle: 54db - 2db better than stock
- 35mph: 67db - 5db better than stock
- 60mph: 75db - 4db better than stock
Either way, there are real improvements there, especially at speed. It is much more enjoyable to drive and I need less amplifier power to have the music at an enjoyable level. Say I set the music so it was only 3db above the road noise, well now I'd need only 40% of the amp power to do that at 60mph vs. before, and only 31% at 35mph! That is significantly less taxing on the electrical system too!
Tomorrow I head to Alabama for a week or work. When I get back I'll upgrade the alternator and build a cargo cover, then I can remount my amps and get sound again. I also have to take apart the tailgate and get it to stop rattling. I've determined that the tailgate is too rusty to save, so I gotta track down one in good shape, but that'll wait 'til I'm ready to repaint the whole thing.
Seabronc
New member
I was commenting on he amount of insulation, not the amps. Do you have a hard top for Winter? If so, you might want to add insulation to it also, like you did to the deck. It looks good.
Good luck,
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Good luck,
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