Won't Start

[Cerulean]

I have a strange, and very annoying, problem with my Bronco that just recently started. When I get in and turn the key once it turns over fine. Usually doesn't start on the first try though because of cold weather here in Michigan, but it does turn over fine. However, when I turn the key a second time, nothing happens at all. All the lights come on fine, the fuel pump primes, everything acts as it should except the truck doesn't turn over at all. Not even a click.

Now, the odd part, I've discovered over the past few weeks that if I get out and open the hood then give the negative battery clamp a couple of sideways taps with a hammer that I can then get it to turn over again. Unfortunately, it seems I have to do this almost every time I turn the truck off.

Now, I know the immediate thought is that the battery clamp is loose or the terminal is dirty, but that's not it. Not only is the clamp as tight as it will go, I've actually changed clamps about 4 times in the past few weeks, with everything from the least to the most expensive I could find. No difference. The battery itself is brand new and I still cleaned the twerminals anyway. No help there either.

My next step will probably be to change the wires themselves, but I just feel like there may be a short or a bad ground somewhere that I can't seem to find.

Tested the alternator and it's fine. Solenoid is pretty new. Could be the starter maybe, but not sure how tapping the battery clamp would make it suddenly work every time. It just seems like it has to be a loose connection.. but It isn't.

Also, checked codes and nothing comes up.

Any thoughts? I would appreciate any and all help. Thanks.

C.

 

[Krafty]

did you clean the battery post and the inside of the clamps? check the ground cable at the other end where it connects to the engine. Use a multimeter and check for any voltage drop on the connections when its not turning over.put the negative tester on the body of the truck and the positive on the positive of the battery and you should get a reading of the battery voltage if everything is flowing properly. if all else fails then you might need a new negative battery cable.

 

[Cerulean]

Well, I'm still working on the problem. I changed out my ground wires and even added a few extra to make sure I had a good ground and I seem to. But while I was doing all that I ended up burning out my ignition coil so I need to replace that before I can start working on the original problem again. (( Was an original coil on a 1990 Bronco so I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did. hehe ))

The original problem was still there after initially changing the wires though. I'm wondering now if the problem may be in the steering column itself...? I had an upper actuator break on me once and it was a pain to try to replace so I just ended up replacing the whole steering column instead. It almost seems like it could be that same type of problem starting again. Even when the truck does turn over I have to turn the key much further than normal and then turn it back into resting position myself.

The truck seems to turn over fine when I use a screwdriver to jump it off the solenoid. Someone suggested maybe I should just wire up a push button start to bypass the regular key start but I'm not sure if that's a good way to go or not. To be honest, I would hate to have to change out the steering column again.

Anyway, any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

Also, does anyone know where I can find detailed instructions, possibly with pictures, of how best to remove an egr valve and clean it? I think that may be what is causing my truck to lose power and not want to go on the rare occasions I can get it started. Fuel pump seems to be fine and the codes I got pointed to either that or the egr valve/sensor. Is there a way to test the sensor to see if it needs to be replaced without just buying a new one?

Anyway, thanks for your time.

 

[BroncoJoe19]

Could the problem be your shift lever position sensor?

I imagine that tapping the battery terminal is only coincidental that it seems to make a difference.

Try holding the lever higher into park, or putting it into nutral the next time it doesn't start.

There is a thread or two in the Howto section on how to adjust and howto replace an ignition switch.

 

[Seabronc]

Based on the fact that you had the link break, I suspect it may be the start switch alignment. Also, before that check the red with blue stripe wire that runs from the key to the start relay. Like Bronco Joe mentioned the wire from the start switch to the relay runs through the neutral safety switch that could also be your problem. I've heard a lot of cob job solutions for problems like you mentioned, fix the real problem. It is not hard to trouble shoot them with a simple volt meter.

Here is a link to the start switch adjustment procedure. FYI it is located on top of the steering column under the dash. http://broncozone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=7243

Good luck,

>-

 

[Maddog]

This may be off subject but if you tap to ******* the terminals you can ***** the inside connection up on the battery. Also, even if your battery can hold a charge, for a while, doesn't mean its good. You can use a multimeter to test each cell if you have access. If not take it to a Auto Parts place they can test it, most times for bad cells. Try a different battery as a test.

On a different note; you may have a problem with the ignition switch at the steering wheel.. Do you get lights to the dash at all when you turn the key? Any sounds? (clicking ect...) May be a bad connection at the starter (i've had starter posts come loose as well), bad solenoid. Not everything new works the way it should.

Did you check the ground wire? and where it's grounded to? Some times the wires get dirty/broken/screwed up inside the coating.. Try hooking up a different ground wire..

GL

 

[Cerulean]

Well, I replaced my ground wire and cleaned up all the connections I could find with a wire brush and I seem to be getting it to turn over every time now. However, turning over apparently doesn't help when you have no spark at all. As soon as I fix one problem, another pops up. I adjusted the timing to see if that would help it run any smoother and then turned the truck off. Now it won't start again. It will crank every time, but there seems to be no spark at all. A friend tested everything for me and the problem seemed to be the ignition coil, so I put on a brand new one, but it still isn't getting spark. Plugs and wires themselves are pretty new and seem to test fine. Cap and rotor are pretty new as well. No codes at all for this problem. Not sure where to look next for the cause.

 

[Bronc76]

It seems like you have a loose connection in the wiring between the distributor and ignition, because you said it will start and then it has no spark. Im sure youve done that and it sounds like that youve replaced everything under the sun, you might want to double check and look for a bad connection.

 

[BroncoJoe19]

What year is your truck, and how did you pull codes?

 

[Cerulean]

Truck is a 1990 Bronco, EFI, 302 5.0. Just your basic beast. heh I used the paper clip method to pull codes, which I've done a ton of times now and always triple check. Only codes I get are these...

Code 33: EGR valve opening not detected.

Code 87: Fuel pump primary circuit failure. When the FP relay was activated by the EEC, voltage was not detected on the control circuit.

When and if I can get it running again, it loses power when I hit the gas. I believe, after much looking around, I have a clogged EGR valve and need to clean or replace it. Of course, my first priority is actually figuring out how to get it to start to begin with, which is the no-spark problem I have now.

 

[Maddog]

Not to make you feel dumb but how are you checking for spark? If your sure it's not getting spark check your distributor and cap first. Even if a vehicle is out of time you'll still get spark it just may be so far out of time it won't start. I would find TDC and check to see if my rotor was at the number 1 wire just for timing purposes. Some things in your statement have me a little confused.

" Well, I replaced my ground wire and cleaned up all the connections I could find with a wire brush and I seem to be getting it to turn over every time now. However, turning over apparently doesn't help when you have no spark at all. As soon as I fix one problem, another pops up. I adjusted the timing to see if that would help it run any smoother and then turned the truck off. Now it won't start again. It will crank every time, but there seems to be no spark at all. A friend tested everything for me and the problem seemed to be the ignition coil, so I put on a brand new one, but it still isn't getting spark. Plugs and wires themselves are pretty new and seem to test fine. Cap and rotor are pretty new as well. No codes at all for this problem. Not sure where to look next for the cause."

So after you got it turning over again was it running or not? If it was running and you adjusted the timing then it may just be out of time so far that it won't start. If it wasn't running and you verified at the spark plug(s) that it has no spark then it may be; rotor, cap, electronic ignition or points, coil wire, coil. Start at the cap you may have loosened up or broke your Distributor Cap to Coil wire.

The biggest thing is knowing if it was running or not. Makes a big difference.

GL

 

[Cerulean]

Sorry, I was out of town for a few weeks and didn't get to check here. Now that I'm back I can focus on the truck again.

I apologize if I wasn't clear enough. After I fixed the ground problem I had the truck running. As it was running, a friendly neighbor attempted to help me adjust the timing to see if the truck would run any smoother. After the timing was adjusted to where the engine seemed to be running the best, I shut the truck off. The next time I tried to start it, it would crank but that was it. At first I thought it wasn't getting gas but it is. My neighbor is the one who told me he tested it and it wasn't getting spark. He said I needed a new ignition coil, so I bought one and installed it, but there is still no change. To be quite honest, I'm horrible at mechanics so usually just take people at their word who seem to know what they're talking about. Stupid of me, I know.

Anyway, thank you for your time.

 

[BroncoJoe19]

When your neighbor adjusted teh timing did he pull teh SPOUT connector first? and did he replace it when finished?

 

[Cerulean]

Truthfully, I was sitting in the truck at the time so couldn't fully see.. but I don't believe he did. I didn't see him remove it and I could kind of see beneath the open hood. It's securely in place at this time though. What would happen if he hadn't removed it?

Someone else mentioned I may need a new ignition module, but I would like to be sure first this time before I keep buying parts I don't really need.

 

[BroncoJoe19]

If he didn't pull the SPOUT connector when he did the timing, the timing would be off, I don't know in which direction.

 

[BroncoJoe19]

Hey, you need to settle down and stop jumping all over the place.

Earlier two or three posters suggested that you adjust your ignition switch.

To a number of things travels through the ignition switch in the start and run position. IF it is faulty it is possible for it to crank, but NOT send power to the ignition coil, or a signal to the fuel pump relay, or the ECC relay.

You got a code 87:

Code 87: Fuel pump primary circuit failure. When the FP relay was activated by the EEC, voltage was not detected on the control circuit.

I believe that this means that the fuel pump is not getting power.

Do you have a voltmeter?

 

[Cerulean]

I don't have a Voltmeter, no. The fuel pump seems to be working fine though. The engine is getting gas. After I turn the key a few times you can start to smell the fuel. I've had that code for a while now but the pump hasn't given me any problems yet. Right now all I know is when I turn the key the truck will turn over easily enough, but won't actually start no matter how many times I let it crank. This is what made me think at first that it wasn't getting gas too.. but the pump comes on, the filter is brand new and I checked the lines at the other end and the gas comes through just fine.

Someone is going to lend me a timing light tomorrow and I'm going to make sure my timing is where it should be and then go from there, I guess.

I do appreciate all the help with this so far. Thank you.

 

[bobstrat]

once you have the timing light, use it to check the cap to coil wire for any activity. no sense messing with timing if you have no spark at all. that could maybe indicate your ignition module. of course you'd be the only one i ever met that had the good fortune to have one fail in the driveway. mine was half way through an intersection.

 

[Cerulean]

once you have the timing light, use it to check the cap to coil wire for any activity. no sense messing with timing if you have no spark at all. that could maybe indicate your ignition module. of course you'd be the only one i ever met that had the good fortune to have one fail in the driveway. mine was half way through an intersection.

Actually my module went bad on me a few years back in the drive-through at a McDonalds, so I feel your pain. hehe

About to go and check out a few things, I'll let you guys know what I find.