Stock Intake

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Redneck86

Redneck86

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Ok to me the first two pages look like a spreadbore. Especially the first one, i dont see how you can mistake that one. The second pages looks to be a spreadbore too if you look at the gasket. The Third one doesnt really show a whole lot.

 

Justshootme84

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Leave it to BB78 to come up with an obscure, out-of-date, hard to find carb that was only used for a couple years on the 460. Here's a very good article on the differences between square, spread and the 4350 bores. JSM84

http://home.off-road.com/~wagoneer/tech/ca...0_compared.html

Ain't the internet wonderful? HAd to dig through some pages to find this one. The 4350 does have a square mounting pattern, but is a spreadbore carb. However, the majority of Ford carbs and specifically the ones on 78-87 Broncos are a square bore design. this includes the 4180 for the 351W H.O. Also found an interesting fact: 31% of 84-86 Broncos came with the H.O. option, excluding California vehicles.

 
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BLADE262US

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Yeah I think someone is confusing spread bore and square bore to venturi size . The term spread bore and square bore refers to the mounting hole pattern , Tha carb in that pic is definately square bore being equal distance in all directions which means you could take it off and turn it around and bolt it back down a spreadbore has a lot wider bolt pattern on one end but yes they did this because the secondaries are huge and needed the room . As for the ** motor if you found a carbed one after 87 its a miracle because everything was EFI by that time 1986 was the last yr of the 351HO anything after that was pretty much a name plate although in 94/95 the 351 started coming with the roller cam blocks and I did find reference to them calling that an ** but have never seen a name plate on an EFI say that other than a 302 . Ford may have had a spreadbore on a big block at some point but they came to there sences really quick because theres not many I have a 1970 460 here and a 1969 429 and both of them are square bore one out of a truck and one from a car so its not a truck thing . I have never ever seen a small block ford with a spread bore intake the only way you could use a quadra junk on one if you ever had a moment was to buy one of those adapters that go from spread to square , Mr gasket used to make them . That carb you show in your pics would not work on an 86 ** intake even though it is a square bore and would bolt on without a spacer the secondaries would not open because that intake is not an open plenum and those butterflies are way to big to clear the runner holes . :D /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

 

Broncobill78

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BB78, I honestly can't tell from the 3 pics you posted where it says anywhere what type of carb base it is. But from the 2nd pic, it appears to me that the base is square. That is, the four holes to mount the carb have a square pattern. The only "spreadbore" factory carb I'm aware of as Blade stated is the GM quadrajet.
Ok, well as far as not seeing what type it is, it's the Morotcraft 4350 4-bbl. This info is printed at the top of each one of the pages I posted and if you take a look at the first page it's printed up top just like the others, then move down an inch or so & it's printed in large boldfaced type. Under the large type it says "applies to 7.5L (460 CID) V-8 engines" and then if you scroll down to where the text actually begins the first sentence of the description is "The Motorcraft model 4350 4-V carburetor is used on 7.5L (460 CID) V-8 truck engines". As far as this entire issue being about the 4-hole mounting pattern that's used to physically mount the carb to the intake, I address that below in my comments to Blade.

As for being obscure & out of date, well I guess that's just a matter of opinion. 70's era 460 equiped F-trucks is not a collection of rigs I consider to be either obscure OR out-of-date but I can understand that some guys don't think much of the older stuff and that's a right everyone's entitled to. Without having a mid-80's manual to ck I honestly don't know if the spreadbore was continued on the carb'd 460's after the 1980 revision. I'll take your last statement that the majority of 78-87 Broncos have squarebores one step further and say that in all liklihood ALL of them did. Unless someone forgot to clue me in on some obscure options package that allowed someone to order a factory installed 460 in a Bronco then none of them did. It's a big-block carb used on 460's, the literature is quite clear on that point. I mentioned it because I've installed several 460's into several Bronco's and thought that it was perhaps something that I had some experience with. You clearly feel that isn't the case. My apologies for assuming that I had something to add to the thread.

As far as Blade's last comment goes, the mounting hole pattern ? Am I reading this correctly ? Are you suggesting that the term "spreadbore" in fact refers to the carb *mounting bolt pattern* ? Now I KNOW somebody's pulling my leg & funning with me. All I can say to that is "WOW", "wow" and then for a third time, WOW. The terms "spreadbore" & "squarebore" do *most certainly* refer to the venturi size. In a squarebore the primary and secondary venturi's are the same size, so as a result of that the butterfly's on the bottom of the carb are all the same size and line up into a nice *square* pattern, hence the name "squarebore". There are 4 venturis of equal size & they're arranged in a square pattern. Four bores arrainged in a square, Squarebore. In a spreadbore carb the secondaries are *larger* than the primaries and because of that they do NOT make a nice neat square, the rear of the carb spacer has to be wider than the front to accomodate the larger diameter venturis & butterfly's. They're larger, take up more room, and because of that they're more *spread* out. A spreadbore. Both a spreadbore and a squarebore will have a square, 4-hole mounting pattern that's used to attach the carb to the intake, that's pretty much universal in the carburetor world. The difference lies in the carb spacer, the spreadbores have the wider rear portion and therefore are *not* square. The attached photo shows the underside of the Quadrabog you mentioned alongside a 4350. Look closely and you'll see that they both use a square mounting pattern for the carb bolts. While you say you've never seen a spreadbore on a smallblock that's *exactly* why I said in my last post that it must be a difference between big-blocks & small-blocks. I agree that the one I posted wouldn't work on a smallblock ** for the same reason a quadrabog wouldn't work, it wasn't designed to. I don't ever remember suggesting that it *should* be used on an ** engine. All I ever said was that the info I'd looked up indicated that the 5.8HO's used a spreadbore, it was a very simply & basic statement.

In the interests of domestic tranquility I'm calling it a day. I spoke from the personal experience that *I* have and that's with late 70's bigblocks. Those are the only engines I've even spent the time or $$$ to build-up and the ones I've spent my time with. Anyone thinking I'm full of $hit is more than welcome to PM me and express that opinion. As far as this thread goes I'm willing to simply call it a disagreement and move on to other issues. Arguing with a *pair* of moderators is sorta like ******* on the steps of City Hall, regardless of where you stand you're not gonna win. It's sorta like trying to cross the Blue line, it just doesn't happen. I'm done with this one. As for answering the *original* question that initiated the thread, I guess the best & easiest answer is to simply pull the carb off and look. that will pretty much answer the question and I guess that's all I should have said in the first place.

quad_4350_comparison.jpg

 
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Justshootme84

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Remember, BB78, that I AGREED with you on the MotorCraft 4350 being a "spreadbore". But according to the article, it was only used on the Ford 460 in the late-70's (not counting other makes). I'll let the article speak for itself, as I think it explains the differences between the two major types of carbs. Perhaps by chance or because you're familiar with the 4350, you threw us a curve ball. The 4350 is an oddball, IMO. If someone like Redneck86 is looking to replace the carb or intake manifold on their Bronco, there are different mounting types for a square bore, spresd bore and a universal (both ways) mounting style. And i do like the Quadrajet carbs, but I also like Holley's. I know how you feel about those already!!! Great discussion, sorry if i got on your nerves. Randy JSM84

 
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Redneck86

Redneck86

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BB78 im with you on the squarebore and spreadbore thing, everybody ive been around (in garages, my dad, at car shows you name it) has always told me that a squarebore has 4 equal size barrels in it, that why its called a *squarebore* theyre arranged in a perfect square. Then i was told that a spreadbore has smaller primaries then it does secondaries, so the bores are spread out. The only reason i brought this whole thing up is because from i know in most cases you cant interchange them with out adapters or the right intake, now i have seen some Edelbrock Performer manifolds that have a universal mounting ******. Ive never heard anyone refer to the mounting pattern to tell what it is, no offence blade.

 

Broncobill78

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Remember, BB78, that I AGREED with you on the MotorCraft 4350 being a "spreadbore". But according to the article, it was only used on the Ford 460 in the late-70's (not counting other makes). I'll let the article speak for itself, as I think it explains the differences between the two major types of carbs. Perhaps by chance or because you're familiar with the 4350, you threw us a curve ball. The 4350 is an oddball, IMO. If someone like Redneck86 is looking to replace the carb or intake manifold on their Bronco, there are different mounting types for a square bore, spresd bore and a universal (both ways) mounting style. And i do like the Quadrajet carbs, but I also like Holley's. I know how you feel about those already!!! Great discussion, sorry if i got on your nerves. Randy JSM84
My apologies to JSM & most everyone else. There are times when I'm simply *not* as articulate as I wish to be and I'm not able to get my point across in a fashion that everyone understands. I *mean* to say one thing but I wind up typing something that just doesn't convey the thought. Becoming passinate about *what* you have to say is never a guarantee that you're going to phrase you message in terms that people will understand. My bad. While I admittedly get fired up from time to time I prefer this group to ANY of the other Bronco forums and I like it *because* of the diverse personalities here and the ammount of info that's available here. I appreciate the patience of everyone here.

I can easily agree. I saw a lot of them because it was the particular niche I was drawn to and always seemed to find late model 460's to build and as a result wound up with 5 or 6 spreadbore intakes piled up on the shelf. When you look thru a microscope you don't see the whole picture. Once again, MY bad.

I think that at the end of the day what's important is that good info was exchanged, everyone learned something and *nobody* walked away feeling angry or ****** off. Everyone has spoken, we're all on the same page & to the best of my knowledge everything is right with the world. However, I continue to extend the invitation to anyone who wants to tell me I'm full of $hit to PM me. My Ex's do it all the time so don't be shy, I'm used to it.

As far as my issues with Blade go, after reading thru his *other* recent posts I don't think he & I will be seeing eye to eye anytime soon. My apologies to those caught in the crossfire.

 
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Justshootme84

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That's cool. We can all learn from the discussions, and we don't always have to agree. Although, I agree with your posts the majority of the time, Randy JSM84

 

BroncoJoe19

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Yeah I think someone is confusing spread bore and square bore to venturi size . The term spread bore and square bore refers to the mounting hole pattern ,
Gentlemen:

Just for the sake of accuracy for those who may use this thread for future reference, it seems to me that there is a glaring mistake in this thread that really stands out. It is quoted above.

If one looks no further than the article referred to by JSM it states...

"The Quadrajet is on the left, and the 4350 is on the right. Immediately evident is what is meant by "spreadbore"; the two primary barrels, or venturis, that the engine usually draws air and fuel through are very small, while the secondary throttle bores are significantly larger, and provide the extra fuel needed for full-throttle acceleration."

Pictures are included.

 

BLADE262US

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What I took it to mean i sthe bolt pattern is spread out on the bigger side the reason being is because of the bigger veturis but non the less the bolt pattern is spread out as well either way it doesnt fit a square bore pattern that was my whole point . No offence taken or meant to be given just a different way of looking at it . :D /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

 
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Redneck86

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I think this proves that the mouting ****** aint what makes a carb a squarebore or a spreadbore.

I found it on Holleys web site so im pretty sure its right.

CarbBores.jpg


 

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