Starter is locking up, how can I fix it?

[winks]

My 89 Bronco had the original starter in it, and it started to seize on me. I would try to start the truck and it would lock up and **** all of my power. After a while I would get the power back, try to start it again, and it would do the same exact thing.

I changed out the starter to a rebuilt one, and I got the truck running... once. It stalled out on me and I didn't do anything after that. 6 hours later, I replaced the ignition coil hoping to solve the stalling problem, then I tried to start it again. It siezed on me. I've banged on the starter with a hammer, but it hasn't done anything to free up the starter.

Has anybody had this problem before, and how can I solve it?

 

[Seabronc]

Not sure what you are saying by freeze. Do you mean that the bendix doesn't retract or is it continuing to turn over after you take the key off the start position. If it continues to try to cank the engine over you probably have a stuck starter relay.

Good luck,

>-

 

[firelt90bronco]

The best thing to do is change the starter solenoid on the passenger side inner fender, I just replaced my starter and I replaced the solenoid. Its best to replace the solenoid and the starter together.

 

[winks]

By locking up I meant that it would block all voltage coming from the battery as soon as I turned the key to the Run position. I thought that the actual mechanism was just locking up and causing the system to ground out... turns out that it may not be, read further...

Sounds like a good idea to replace the solenoid, I will do that some time soon.

I have actually come across something odd tonight. I hooked up the truck to a battery charger and got the same results as usual when I tried to start it. I decided to try something different afterwards - I hooked up the positive on the charger to the positive on the battery, and then hooked up the ground of the charger to the frame. When I turned the key to the Accesorry position, the tach showed 1000rpm even though the engine wasn't running. I listened underneath the truck, and the starter was running. I don't know what to make of this. What is happening here?

 

[Seabronc]

1. You may have taken out another starter in the process of trying to get this working.

2. You may have misadjusted start switch, (located on the top of the steering column under the dash).

3. The starter can not run if the solinoid is not stuck or somehow activated. Diagram attached.

4. It is a very simple circuit; Battery -> Start Solinoid -> Starter; the solinoid is controlled by the small red with light blue stripe attached to the small terminal post. Try removing this wire and if the starter still is running, the solinoid is definately stuck.

Also you can remove the wire from the solinoid to the starter to see if anything runs with the key in the RUN or ACC position.

Note: This diagram is for an 83 Bronco but the circuit from the battery to the starter is the same.

Also, check your ground connections from the battery to the frame. Take them off and clean them. It wouldn't hurt to remove, clean and reconnect all battery to starter and ground connections.

Good luck,

>-

 

[winks]

Here are tonight's experiments and the results, there is a summary at the bottom for those who do not want to read.

Note: I currently am using the bolt down/clamp on battery terminals for my wires, which allows me to test the voltage both on the battery and on the cables themselves. (this is important)

When I put the battery charger on the cables, it was on there for only a minute and then read full charge. I had no interior lights, headlights, or anything else... In other words, the cables read full charge, but the truck wasn't getting anything.

I then put the charger directly onto the battery (with the cables still attached), it charged it up for quite some time but never let it completed the charge. While it was connected in this setup, the truck was getting power, unlike the above mentioned. When I turned the key to Run, the fuel pumps pressurized the system, and that is all. When I turned the key to Start, the truck immediately lost power everywhere.

When I got power back, I repeated this proccess again and had the same results..

When I got power back again, I attached a jumper from the negative terminal of the battery to the frame. I then turned the key to Run, and the starter turned on. Note that I did not turn the key to Start.

I repeated this proccess again and had the same results.

I pulled off the wire that sends the signal from the solenoid to the starter, and this time when I turned the key to Run the starter did not turn. I then turned the key to Start, heard a click from the solenoid and nothing else - I did not lose any power.

I attached the starter wire back to the solenoid, turned the key to Run, the starter did not turn. When I turned the key to Start, I immediately lost all power once again.

Because I was thinking I may have a grounding issue, I took off my ground cables from the battery and hooked up a jumper from the battery to the frame. When I turned the key to Start, I immediately lost power.

When the power returned, I went through the process again, when the key was turned to run, this time the starter did not start turning. I turned the key to Start, and immediately lost all power.

I repeated this process again after the power returned, and had the same results.

Summary:

From these tests I have found when the battery cables are connected and I try to start the truck, it locks the starter solenoid in the closed position. This is why the starter would turn in the Run position each time after that when I tried to start the truck (with the jumper connected from the battery to the frame). When taking off the starter cable off of the solenoid and then turning the key to Start, it unlocks the solenoid out of the closed position and opens the ciruit again.

I am clueless as to why trying the same steps with the ground wires taken off of the battery did not cause the solenoid to stay in the closed posistion when I lost power. Possibility the ground coming off of my battery needs to be replaced. I also have no idea where to take this next, other than to run the jumper to the engine block and see if that does anything.

Any other ideas are welcome.

 

[Seabronc]

I pulled off the wire that sends the signal from the solenoid to the starter, and this time when I turned the key to Run the starter did not turn. I then turned the key to Start, heard a click from the solenoid and nothing else - I did not lose any power.
I attached the starter wire back to the solenoid, turned the key to Run, the starter did not turn. When I turned the key to Start, I immediately lost all power once again.

<_< From your symptoms you have to have either a bad solinoid or cable to the starter.

Have you checked the cable from the solinoid to the starter to see if it is has a rub-thru short any place it comes near the frame or engine? Also, just because you heard a click from the solinoid doesn't mean the contacts aren't welded together.

I'd replace them both. I just checked the 89 diagram which I don't have in my computer to send a copy of the page, but the start circuit is exactly like the 83 diagram I gave you. Very simple circuit, Battery -> Solinoid -> Starter.

Good luck,

>-

 

[winks]

Ok, so then would you say it is just a coincidence that when I took off the negative terminal from the battery, that the starter didn't get locked in the open position at Start? I am going to check out the ground connections with a volt meter to make sure I'm actually getting good grounds - just incase. I unfortunately cannot do this, nor can I pick up the new solenoid and wire until tomorrow. My fiance hasn't seen me all weekend, and wants me to herself today. (

 

[winks]

Okay... so on to tonight's testing... (the fiance was sleeping most of the day, so I snuck out)

I replaced the starter solenoid/relay and the wire that runs from the solenoid to the starter. After doing this, I came up with the same results - when I turned they key to Start, I lost all power as usual. From the advice given, I have been suspecting a grounding problem, but I wanted to change those parts out anyhow, so I did that first. After changing those out, I followed my ground to where it connects to the engine to figure out how to replace it. After a bit of feeling around for a connection and not coming up with anything, I decided to go a different route. I stripped back the ground wire from the terminal, and tested it with the battery and volt meter. I was not getting any voltage when I tried to use that cable as a ground - I was reading voltage at other ground points. Since I couldn't find where the gound wire ended, I decided to chop it off at a safe point, and then hooked up a pre-made negative terminal to another bolt on the engine. I tested it out, and it started right up. It tried to stall out on me again, but I kept giving it gas, and had it running for about 5 minutes, then shut it off.

I did my little happy happy joy joy dance, but I came to realize that I had celebrated too soon. When I went out to try it again about 20 minutes later, the starter was grinding when I turned the key to Start. I have never had a starter grind on me before, so I don't know what could be wrong. Any ideas?

 

[Justshootme84]

I went through a similar electrical problem for a long time on my 84 Bronco. I replaced both battery cables with new ones. While they appeared fine on the outside, the cables were rusted and corroded underneath the rubber coating. Poor connection and bad ground. I would go through 2-3 starter solenoids per year. While they're cheap, I got the lifetime guaranteed model s oi wouldn't have to pay $16 each time. Just couldn't figure why I went through these so often, other than poor quality. But, even tried a few different brands with same results, and just carried a spare with me at ALL times. If it ever gets hot to the touch, replace it. I melted a few in fact. For some reason, probably an oversight by the garage that installed my longblock kit, there was no ground from the battery to the motor, just to the frame. MY DAD told me I needed both, and that solved the problem. The starter would turn over right away, and no further problems (up to when the engine threw a couple of rods from an intake leak).

Another possible solution is to shim the starter so it engages with the ring gear, and check that the ring gear is not chipped or missing teeth. And I have little faith in rebuilt starters as well as alternators. I always make the parts person bench test them before putting them on the truck. JSM84

 

[winks]

I fixed the problem, it was a bad ground. For some reason the ground coming off my engine block wasn't giving me any current. I cut it off and hooked up a new cable to the head of the block, the starter is working fine now... didn't have to change out the starter, cables, solenoid, or coil, but at least I have all new stuff. B)

 

[firelt90bronco]

Adds to resale value anyway!