I have a 78 ford bronco frame and drive train with a f150 body. Im running a 460, C6, np205, with dana 44 front and 9 inch rear end. I also have a 6 inch suspension lift and 2 or 3 inch body lift. The bad part is im trying to beef up the axles to hold up to the 42" super swamper tsl's. Now I am looking for gears but am not sure what to buy, I run it in the mud and on the trails, so Im not sure what to use? I also will have the rear welded and the front either open or will use a locker, I was thinking of using a Trac lock or a power lock, Any suggestions? Thank you Happy wheelin
selecting gears
- Thread starter WI4x4
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Broncobill78
New member
For a 42" tire I'd run either a 4.56 or a 4.88. However, if you're looking to run it in the mud & on trails then I wouldn't waste a dime installing gears, differentials or *anything* into the axles you have. IF you treat it gently and do nothing more than pretty much just drive around town then the axles will probably stand up to it for awhile (while the may not break right away the bearings will fail quickly) You really need to be running Dana 60's
BroncoJoe19
Active member
I've seen s number of threads mentioning Dana 44's and then Dana 60's Obviously from this post the 60's are stonger.
Does 44 and 60 signify a measurement?
What overall is included in a Dana anyway?
I'm not planning on any changes, jsut trying to learn from you folks.
joe
Broncobill78
New member
44, 60, 70, 35, etc, etc. Those are just the various model numbers of the Axles & as a rough rule of thumb the higher the model # the larger/stronger the axle is. Dana is a 3rd party manufacturer that supplies axles to all of the truck & SUV makers.
As far as my response to WI4x4 went, the stock Ford 9" rear & Dana 44 front axles are pretty much maxed out at 36". You can safely run a tire *up to* 36" without expecting failures & breakages. To run tires in the 37"-44" range you should really run full-floating Dana 60's. The stock 9"/D44 combo is prone to bearing failures (not just the wheel bearings but also the pinion bearing as you try to run progressively steeper gears and are turning larger & larger tires) and broken axle-shafts. Now you *can* upgrade the axles with things like nodular iron 3rd members, pinion supports & bolted/welded trusses (trusses help keep the tubes from flexing & breaking the shafts) but all those upgrades cost $$$ and the simplist & easiest upgrade is to just pop in a Dana 60. With tires larger than 36" you also want a full-floating axle, the 9"/D44 are both semi-floaters meaning that the axle-shaft itself helps to carry the weight of the truck. The wheel bearings are pressed onto the shafts and the race is driven into the axle tube, this means that as the truck rolls down the road it's weight is being carried by the axleshafts, so when you start goofing around, running in the mud and trailriding with large tires you have a much greater chance of breaking the axleshaft. In a full-floating axle the shaft doesn't carry *any* of the truck's weight so not only is the shaft itself physically larger & stronger but since it's not weight-bearing there's much less chance of breaking it (and if you DO manage to break it all you have to do is take off the endcap and differential cover and you can replace it, you don't even need to take off the wheel)
As far as my response to WI4x4 went, the stock Ford 9" rear & Dana 44 front axles are pretty much maxed out at 36". You can safely run a tire *up to* 36" without expecting failures & breakages. To run tires in the 37"-44" range you should really run full-floating Dana 60's. The stock 9"/D44 combo is prone to bearing failures (not just the wheel bearings but also the pinion bearing as you try to run progressively steeper gears and are turning larger & larger tires) and broken axle-shafts. Now you *can* upgrade the axles with things like nodular iron 3rd members, pinion supports & bolted/welded trusses (trusses help keep the tubes from flexing & breaking the shafts) but all those upgrades cost $$$ and the simplist & easiest upgrade is to just pop in a Dana 60. With tires larger than 36" you also want a full-floating axle, the 9"/D44 are both semi-floaters meaning that the axle-shaft itself helps to carry the weight of the truck. The wheel bearings are pressed onto the shafts and the race is driven into the axle tube, this means that as the truck rolls down the road it's weight is being carried by the axleshafts, so when you start goofing around, running in the mud and trailriding with large tires you have a much greater chance of breaking the axleshaft. In a full-floating axle the shaft doesn't carry *any* of the truck's weight so not only is the shaft itself physically larger & stronger but since it's not weight-bearing there's much less chance of breaking it (and if you DO manage to break it all you have to do is take off the endcap and differential cover and you can replace it, you don't even need to take off the wheel)
BroncoJoe19
Active member
Dave,
That was a great explaination!
I can certainly see why you would make the recommendation that you did.
Thanks.
Full of knowledge and information you are... yes... hmmm.
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Broncobill78
New member
Well, yes, as it happens I DO know where you can get hardened axleshafts, but I really don't think providing the info would be doing you any favors. IF you were running 38's (which are much closer to 36's and therefore a *marginal* tire as far as I'm concerned) then sure, you could probably get away with hardened shafts, a pinion bearing support and an axle truss. IF (and please notice that I capitalized *both* letters there, not because it was at the beginning of a sentence but to *emphasize* the word) you were to do that then the upgraded axle would probably handle 38's and a fair degree of punishment. HOWEVER (see, we're back to the caps here, once again that's for emphasis) you're not running 38's, you're running 42's and quite frankly I really don't think there's much you can do *at all* to upgrade either a D44 OR a 9" to handle 42's AND fun, off-road-type goofing around. What you'll wind up doing is throwing a whole bunch of cash at your axles and then breaking them in a spectacular moment that all your friends will post on YouTube. Now where does that getcha ? While everyone in town may be pointing at you and smiling, I *promise* they won't be laughing WITH you.
Now as far as finding Dana 60's goes, well, that one's easy. Fortunately for all us straight-axle, alpha-male, He-Man type guys there are plenty of them out there. Now I'm not for sure just where *you* live but when I lived up in New England you could EASILY find a 73-79 F250 or F350 for a few hundred bucks. The body mounts and frame were usually shot but as a parts truck they were gold mines. I've even seen guys run Dana *70* duallie axles in Broncos (talk about freaking indestructable) but just about ANY 250 or 350 will have D60's. Your local junkyard should be able to pull you a set for $150-$200 per axle (and that's on the high side) and if you're willing to slog in there with a jack & a torch you can pull your own for probably $100 per. You can also keep your eyes open on Craigslist and your local WantAds for a cheap parts truck, personally that's what I'd do, With a parts truck you can pull all sorts of thoings you weren't thinking of until you spotted it hanging there and you can usually find other good parts to sell and offset your expenses. If you're willing to grab a measuring tape and ck your info you can also find good D60's under other vehicles, but I leave that sort of thing to the enterprising youngster, I like to stick with Blue Oval sourced parts.
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Broncobill78
New member
I know it must seem that way but really, they're around. Open your local Yellow Pages & call the area junkyards. There were *literally* MILLIONS of them installed in F250's, F350's, E250's & E350's. I doubt you can go to any local boneyard and throw a rock without hitting one. The D60 rears are everywhere.
To top it off, watch your local Want Ads & the area Craigslist. Living in Wisconsin you guys dump as much salt on the roads each winter as we did in New England. I can absolutely ASSURE you there are plenty of F-trucks with front & rear D60's out there with rusted & blown body mounts & beds ready to fall off the frame. You can score a truck like that for $300-$400 and not only get the axles but a lot of other good parts, and if youre saavy you'll sell $hit like the glass and anything else you can pull off to recoup your expenses. This is one of those situations where it's actually *better* to NOT live in the sunbelt. Down here in South Florida you can still find mint, rustless 75' F250's and they sell for $2K. Take advantage of the opportunities around you. Really, there are plenty of good donor rigs within a few miles of *where-ever* you're at, you just need to peer under the right rocks and be persistant. Like I said, Ford installed MILLIONS of these axles. The fronts are admittedly harder to find but the rears are *everywhere* and once again, this is one of the few times you're lucky to live in the rustbelt because finding a good donor truck isn't that hard, there are plenty out there that simply won't pass inspection anymore or the owner is tired of the cab sliding off the frame every few weeks. Once you start looking into just what kinds of vehicles these were installed in (F-trucks & E-vans) and just *how many* are out there you'll feel better about it. Call a local boneyard & tell them you want a rear Dana60 out of a Ford & they'll ask what gear ratio you want when do you want to pick it up.
If you *really* get stuck for a D60 front you can always swap in the D44HD knuckles and hardware which will give you D60 outer ends (from the knuckles outwards) on your D44 and this will allow you to have all 4 corners setup with the 8-lug pattern and you'll only need the one set of rims. Personally I prefer to just swap in the whole D60 but this is an option if you're stuck and the only alternative is 8-lug rears and 5-lug fronts.
To top it off, watch your local Want Ads & the area Craigslist. Living in Wisconsin you guys dump as much salt on the roads each winter as we did in New England. I can absolutely ASSURE you there are plenty of F-trucks with front & rear D60's out there with rusted & blown body mounts & beds ready to fall off the frame. You can score a truck like that for $300-$400 and not only get the axles but a lot of other good parts, and if youre saavy you'll sell $hit like the glass and anything else you can pull off to recoup your expenses. This is one of those situations where it's actually *better* to NOT live in the sunbelt. Down here in South Florida you can still find mint, rustless 75' F250's and they sell for $2K. Take advantage of the opportunities around you. Really, there are plenty of good donor rigs within a few miles of *where-ever* you're at, you just need to peer under the right rocks and be persistant. Like I said, Ford installed MILLIONS of these axles. The fronts are admittedly harder to find but the rears are *everywhere* and once again, this is one of the few times you're lucky to live in the rustbelt because finding a good donor truck isn't that hard, there are plenty out there that simply won't pass inspection anymore or the owner is tired of the cab sliding off the frame every few weeks. Once you start looking into just what kinds of vehicles these were installed in (F-trucks & E-vans) and just *how many* are out there you'll feel better about it. Call a local boneyard & tell them you want a rear Dana60 out of a Ford & they'll ask what gear ratio you want when do you want to pick it up.
If you *really* get stuck for a D60 front you can always swap in the D44HD knuckles and hardware which will give you D60 outer ends (from the knuckles outwards) on your D44 and this will allow you to have all 4 corners setup with the 8-lug pattern and you'll only need the one set of rims. Personally I prefer to just swap in the whole D60 but this is an option if you're stuck and the only alternative is 8-lug rears and 5-lug fronts.
For 42" tires, I would run a 5.12/5.13 gear ratio. But I also agree with BB78 in that the stock Bronco axles will have a hard time running that large a tire without breaking. I run 38's on my 78 Bronco, and feel the need to upgrade to chromoly front shafts and stronger u-joints. I'm running 4.88 gears, with a full spool in the 31-spline rear 9' axle that has a Currie Enterprises Nodular iron center section for more strength. The front Dana44 is open with 4.88 gears. Keep this in mind, too, that the higher you go on the gear ratio numerically, the weaker the pinion gear becomes. With 38" or larger tires, you may also have a problem bending the D44/9" axle tubes themselves, due to the added weight of the larger tires and wider rims. Local salvage yard prices for a Ford Dana60 average about $1000 around Houston, TX but if you look hard enough you might get one for $500. JSM84
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