I just replace the flywheel and the starter on my 1984 bronco it is a 302 ** it started making noises a few months ago and then chewed the teeth off the flywheel so i replaced both and just last week it started to make the sounds of the starter chewing the teeth off the fly wheel again but here is the rub ..... in the morning it barely if at all makes the grinding sounds but if i go to town which is about a 15 min drive and shut it off go inside for a few min. and try to crank it it takes forever a good 10 to 15 seconds of rapid spinning over before it will crank as opposed to when it is cold one or two turns and she is running . also now it will only make one turn to the same spot and then the starter just spins and it has been sitting for a while now the headers are cool to the touch and so is the oil pans on both the engine and the transmission but the starter and flywheel are still blazing hot..... If anyone has any ideas what to do with this I would really be grateful it is stressing me out and I am out of $$$$$ it made me late for a job interview today .......thanks everyone
okay this has me stumped
- Thread starter wvBronco
- Start date
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Seabronc
New member
Welcome to the Zone!!
How close is the starter to the exhaust? The heat from the exhaust may be overheating the starter. After market headers put out a lot of heat and probably should be wraped with insulation.
Good luck,
>-
How close is the starter to the exhaust? The heat from the exhaust may be overheating the starter. After market headers put out a lot of heat and probably should be wraped with insulation.
Good luck,
>-it is fairly close however it did not have this problem for 2 years and then i had to change the engine but i replaced it with the same a 302 i drove it for about 6 months before the first starter went out so i changed it then it took about 6 months for the flywheel to go out but right after i changed the starter is when the grinding noise started and now this fly wheel does not look like it is missing any teeth but they are a little worn down after only 2 months i will try to wrap the headers and see if that helps i am getting another starter from NAPA we will see if that helps i am afraid i may have to change the fly wheel again too but one thing at a time
thanks
thanks
yo wv,
Pinion to Ring Gear Clearance Info; "...If the ****** bearing for the crankshaft is worn enough, there will be excessive endplay, which means the crankshaft and everything bolted to it will move forward and rearward a small amount. This can affect the meshing of the gear teeth because the flywheel may be moving enough to let the edges of the teeth get worn down until the teeth are ground off on the edges and no longer catch. The starter would spin but not engage. Look carefully at the wear pattern on the old starter teeth and compare it with a new unit. The wear pattern should be on the meaty center part of the gear, minimizing the wear to the edges. To check the crankshaft endplay with precision requires a dial indicator rigged to measure the fore and aft free movement of the crankshaft. Take the belt/s off the crankshaft pulley and see if it seems to move too much in and out when you push in and pull out on the crankshaft pulley. To repair a worn ****** bearing requires some serious effort. I am not sure if you are willing to do all that, some people install HELP! brand starter shims to space the starter further away from the flywheel, but this is more for concerns where the starter fails to disengaged. There is a difference between the manual transmission and automatic starters, so make sure you get the right one. Some auto parts stores may have incorrect listings Also check the thin metal sheet that the starter inserts through for distortion of the hole, which can cause misalignment. There is a shoulder on the starter that needs to engage the edge of the hole in the sheet metal evenly. This helps ensure the starter sits squarely so it lines up. Drives, Exploded, Ford 2 bolt type, Shims needed due to worn ****** bearings in engine; This condition is the result of the drive engaging too deeply into the flywheel. The face of the drive is rubbing on the flywheel and gradually cutting into the cover that holds the drive together. Eventually, it cuts through and the drive comes apart. The damage is not caused by a problem with the starter. It is because the is floating as a result of worn ****** bearings, located inside the engine block, whose function is to keep the crankshaft centered. This wear can be enough to cause starter and ring gear engagement problems on an engine with 60,000 or more miles. It might take a long time to destroy the original starter, but when a new unit is installed, the drive can be quickly destroyed. Therefore, it is important to properly diagnose this problem when inspecting the customers original core rather than providing him a replacement unit. Shims are availalbe from OCA, part number F.S.S.2B; Shims; Tilton Engineering 54-958 Brand: Tilton Engineering Product Line: Tilton Starter Shims Part Type: Starter Shim Kits Part Number: TIL-54-958 Shim Material: Steel Starter Bolts Included: Yes Quantity: Sold as a kit. "...These Tilton starter shims are a must when installing a starter. You'll need these shims to ensure proper gap between the starter and flywheel..." thus Tilton shows this Pinion to Ring Gear Cearance Info & DiagramI hope this helps to show what can happen. I own a 1988 F-150, and it has 245,000 miles. I replaced the original starter about 4 years ago and have had good results since. I have not checked endplay, but have heard of people with up to an inch of endplay where there should be a just a small amount of play. When obtaining a replacement starter, get one from a smaller local rebuilder that specializes in alternators and starters (check yellow pages or web). These smaller shops handle rebuilds with more care and in general, they tend to use better quality parts than the mass rebuilders that supply the chain stores. They are also good to talk to in a case like this since they have seen so many failed starters..." Miesk5 Note, see reply for the Tilton URL or see Link listed in this section
Source: by Brian
http://www.justanswer.com/questions/1r0m2-i-have-a-1986-f150-with-5-8-351-windsor-that-i-cannot-keep
Pinion to Ring Gear Clearance Info; "...When installing the Permanent Magnet Starter, the relationship between the pinion and ring gear is important. Due to the starter's high operating torque, damage to the pinion and ring gear will occur if the recommended clearance is out of spec. The clearance will typically be in spec if you are using the correct starter for your application. There is a much greater chance of having clearance problems if you have a modified flywheel, ring gear, bellhousing or crankshaft. Tilton Engineering Product Line: Tilton Starter Shims Part Type: Starter Shim Kits Part Number: TIL-54-958 Shim Material: Steel Starter Bolts Included: Yes Quantity: Sold as a kit. "...These Tilton starter shims are a must when installing a starter. You'll need these shims to ensure proper gap between the starter and flywheel..." thus Tilton shows this Pinion to Ring Gear Cearance Info & DiagramI hope this helps to show what can happen. I own a 1988 F-150, and it has 245,000 miles. I replaced the original starter about 4 years ago and have had good results since. I have not checked endplay, but have heard of people with up to an inch of endplay where there should be a just a small amount of play. When obtaining a replacement starter, get one from a smaller local rebuilder that specializes in alternators and starters (check yellow pages or web). These smaller shops handle rebuilds with more care and in general, they tend to use better quality parts than the mass rebuilders that supply the chain stores. They are also good to talk to in a case like this since they have seen so many failed starters..."
Source: by Tilton Engineering
Pinion to Ring Gear Clearance Info; "...When installing the Permanent Magnet Starter, the relationship between the pinion and ring gear is important. Due to the starter's high operating torque, damage to the pinion and ring gear will occur if the recommended clearance is out of spec. The clearance will typically be in spec if you are using the correct starter for your application. There is a much greater chance of having clearance problems if you have a modified flywheel, ring gear, bellhousing or crankshaft. 1) The starter pinion to ring gear clearance should be.090" ± .030" when pinion is in its relaxed position(Figure 1). 2) When the pinion is engaged into the ring gear, there is to be .010"-.030" backlash between the teeth of the gears. Make sure the battery is disconnected before making this check. To measure, one tooth of the pinion gear should lie along a line between the centers of the pinion and ring gears, as shown in Figure 2. Wire type feeler gauges, or number drills may be used while removing the entire backlash in one direction with a screwdriver. 3) If the starter solenoid interferes with the engine block or any engine component, see if the nose on the starter is an indexable model. If so, the entire starter can be rotated about the nose to gain additional clearance. Tilton Engineering Product Line: Tilton Starter Shims Part Type: Starter Shim Kits Part Number: TIL-54-958 Shim Material: Steel Starter Bolts Included: Yes Quantity: Sold as a kit...."
Source: by Tilton Engineering
This is from 96 Bronco Workshop Manual
Pinion to Ring Gear Clearance Info; "...If the ****** bearing for the crankshaft is worn enough, there will be excessive endplay, which means the crankshaft and everything bolted to it will move forward and rearward a small amount. This can affect the meshing of the gear teeth because the flywheel may be moving enough to let the edges of the teeth get worn down until the teeth are ground off on the edges and no longer catch. The starter would spin but not engage. Look carefully at the wear pattern on the old starter teeth and compare it with a new unit. The wear pattern should be on the meaty center part of the gear, minimizing the wear to the edges. To check the crankshaft endplay with precision requires a dial indicator rigged to measure the fore and aft free movement of the crankshaft. Take the belt/s off the crankshaft pulley and see if it seems to move too much in and out when you push in and pull out on the crankshaft pulley. To repair a worn ****** bearing requires some serious effort. I am not sure if you are willing to do all that, some people install HELP! brand starter shims to space the starter further away from the flywheel, but this is more for concerns where the starter fails to disengaged. There is a difference between the manual transmission and automatic starters, so make sure you get the right one. Some auto parts stores may have incorrect listings Also check the thin metal sheet that the starter inserts through for distortion of the hole, which can cause misalignment. There is a shoulder on the starter that needs to engage the edge of the hole in the sheet metal evenly. This helps ensure the starter sits squarely so it lines up. Drives, Exploded, Ford 2 bolt type, Shims needed due to worn ****** bearings in engine; This condition is the result of the drive engaging too deeply into the flywheel. The face of the drive is rubbing on the flywheel and gradually cutting into the cover that holds the drive together. Eventually, it cuts through and the drive comes apart. The damage is not caused by a problem with the starter. It is because the is floating as a result of worn ****** bearings, located inside the engine block, whose function is to keep the crankshaft centered. This wear can be enough to cause starter and ring gear engagement problems on an engine with 60,000 or more miles. It might take a long time to destroy the original starter, but when a new unit is installed, the drive can be quickly destroyed. Therefore, it is important to properly diagnose this problem when inspecting the customers original core rather than providing him a replacement unit. Shims are availalbe from OCA, part number F.S.S.2B; Shims; Tilton Engineering 54-958 Brand: Tilton Engineering Product Line: Tilton Starter Shims Part Type: Starter Shim Kits Part Number: TIL-54-958 Shim Material: Steel Starter Bolts Included: Yes Quantity: Sold as a kit. "...These Tilton starter shims are a must when installing a starter. You'll need these shims to ensure proper gap between the starter and flywheel..." thus Tilton shows this Pinion to Ring Gear Cearance Info & DiagramI hope this helps to show what can happen. I own a 1988 F-150, and it has 245,000 miles. I replaced the original starter about 4 years ago and have had good results since. I have not checked endplay, but have heard of people with up to an inch of endplay where there should be a just a small amount of play. When obtaining a replacement starter, get one from a smaller local rebuilder that specializes in alternators and starters (check yellow pages or web). These smaller shops handle rebuilds with more care and in general, they tend to use better quality parts than the mass rebuilders that supply the chain stores. They are also good to talk to in a case like this since they have seen so many failed starters..." Miesk5 Note, see reply for the Tilton URL or see Link listed in this section
Source: by Brian
http://www.justanswer.com/questions/1r0m2-i-have-a-1986-f150-with-5-8-351-windsor-that-i-cannot-keep
Pinion to Ring Gear Clearance Info; "...When installing the Permanent Magnet Starter, the relationship between the pinion and ring gear is important. Due to the starter's high operating torque, damage to the pinion and ring gear will occur if the recommended clearance is out of spec. The clearance will typically be in spec if you are using the correct starter for your application. There is a much greater chance of having clearance problems if you have a modified flywheel, ring gear, bellhousing or crankshaft. Tilton Engineering Product Line: Tilton Starter Shims Part Type: Starter Shim Kits Part Number: TIL-54-958 Shim Material: Steel Starter Bolts Included: Yes Quantity: Sold as a kit. "...These Tilton starter shims are a must when installing a starter. You'll need these shims to ensure proper gap between the starter and flywheel..." thus Tilton shows this Pinion to Ring Gear Cearance Info & DiagramI hope this helps to show what can happen. I own a 1988 F-150, and it has 245,000 miles. I replaced the original starter about 4 years ago and have had good results since. I have not checked endplay, but have heard of people with up to an inch of endplay where there should be a just a small amount of play. When obtaining a replacement starter, get one from a smaller local rebuilder that specializes in alternators and starters (check yellow pages or web). These smaller shops handle rebuilds with more care and in general, they tend to use better quality parts than the mass rebuilders that supply the chain stores. They are also good to talk to in a case like this since they have seen so many failed starters..."
Source: by Tilton Engineering
Pinion to Ring Gear Clearance Info; "...When installing the Permanent Magnet Starter, the relationship between the pinion and ring gear is important. Due to the starter's high operating torque, damage to the pinion and ring gear will occur if the recommended clearance is out of spec. The clearance will typically be in spec if you are using the correct starter for your application. There is a much greater chance of having clearance problems if you have a modified flywheel, ring gear, bellhousing or crankshaft. 1) The starter pinion to ring gear clearance should be.090" ± .030" when pinion is in its relaxed position(Figure 1). 2) When the pinion is engaged into the ring gear, there is to be .010"-.030" backlash between the teeth of the gears. Make sure the battery is disconnected before making this check. To measure, one tooth of the pinion gear should lie along a line between the centers of the pinion and ring gears, as shown in Figure 2. Wire type feeler gauges, or number drills may be used while removing the entire backlash in one direction with a screwdriver. 3) If the starter solenoid interferes with the engine block or any engine component, see if the nose on the starter is an indexable model. If so, the entire starter can be rotated about the nose to gain additional clearance. Tilton Engineering Product Line: Tilton Starter Shims Part Type: Starter Shim Kits Part Number: TIL-54-958 Shim Material: Steel Starter Bolts Included: Yes Quantity: Sold as a kit...."
Source: by Tilton Engineering
This is from 96 Bronco Workshop Manual
- Starter Motor Spins but Does Not Crank Engine
- Malfunctioning starter motor.
- Damaged flywheel ring gear.
- Unusual Starter Motor Noise During Starter Motor Overrun
- Starter motor improperly mounted.
- Malfunctioning starter motor.
- Improper starter drive engagement to flywheel.
