no fuel at the rails...

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navyduck23

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I recently had to put a new gas tank in my truck, before i had to do it everything worked great. Now i'm not getting any fuel to the fuel rails. Working pumps, functioning filters, lines are on the feeder unit correctly etc. I have fuel all he way up to the FPR, but nothing is at the rails, i've cycled the pumps probably a thousand times trying to pressurize the system, but all i get out of the valve stem (on top of the driver side rail) is air. The inertia switch is fine, and it starts, for a minute at least, when i spray something down the intake. I really dont understand why changing nothing but a gas tank could create a problem like this... If someone could help me out, i'd appreciate it

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89 Bronco 5.0 EFi - motor = stock =P

 

BroncoJoe19

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Is it possible that the fuel line and the fuel return lines are crossed?

You have two pumps. Are they BOTH working?

When you turn your key to on/run, they will work for only a second or two, so this is a two person test.

You can trigger the pumps to run continuously to test them, by jumpering the self test connector.

 

How to use self test connector to troubleshoot fuel pump electrical problems

 

http://www.fordforumsonline.com/forum/engine-drivetrain/1396-1988-ranger-2-3l-wont-start.html

 
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navyduck23

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my roommate and i were both out on the truck, he was turning the key and i was listening for the pumps, but yes they're both working. as far as the feeder/return lines, the fittings that go to the feeder unit are two different sizes. And thanks for the link, i'll also be checking for grounds. Is it possible for the FPR to be clogged, even though all i changed was the tank itself?

 

miesk5

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yo, This Exact thAng happened to another owner here in past month or so; he had pin-hole leaks in the fuel line.

If I have time later, I'll post the Link to his thread here.

 

miesk5

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yo, here it is;

http://broncozone.com/topic/21044-ran-out-of-gas-now-wont-start/

Check FPR by pulling vacuum line off; any Trace of gas or even an Odor, replace it

Mitch wrote; "turns out there were holes in my fuel line right before it bends up to the tank. I guess when I ran out of gas it didn't have enough pressure to pull the gas back into the lines."

and see other troubleshooting info in that thread.

 
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navyduck23

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I have fuel all he way up to the FPR, but nothing is at the rails
i plan on checking the FPR asap, been working garbage hours past few days, so no time to even look at the truck, let alone pop the hood. I'm 95% certain its not holes in the lines at the tank/pump, because i have fuel at the regulator. it all just makes no sence to me because all i did was change a tank and nothing past it on the way up to the motor...could the fact that it basically ran out of gas at one point during this whole situation cause any of this you think?

 

BroncoJoe19

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miesk5 I thought of that thread when I originally posted a response here, and can't get my arms around how the front pump can pull air into a line, when the in-tank pump is pushing fuel into the line at a higher volume than the front pump would be pulling. lol... there are many things I don't understand in life eh?

Could it be then that you do not have a good fuel line connection, and that similar to the other poster, you are getting air in the line?

 

miesk5

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yo, The FPR diaphragm may be ruptured and letting air in

Joe,

I was thinking that when the fuel is draining out of the lines after eng is shut off, back to the tank through the fuel pump & there is a pin-hole leak in the line or at the tank, etc..as the fuel drains back, a slight vacuum would be created, and air could potentially be sucked in. Then forced back to da FPR, Rail, injectors

 

BroncoJoe19

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miesk5,

I hope you had a great Thanksgiving Day!

Your explanation above is plausible, but would also require that the check valve that is internal to the pump is bad. Certainly that could be the case. I really like your suggestion that it may be a faulty Feul Pump Regulator. I don't know how they are valved, nor exactly how they work. All I know is that they take fuel in from the pump under pressure and allow it to go to the injectors by way of the fuel rail. It also allows fuel that is not used, (OR I guess that is overpressure) to retun back to the tank. IF he has pressure to the FPR, but not to the rail, then the FPR must be sending all of the fuel back to the tank.

navyduck23,

just for the heck of it, give us a little more information. Assuming that the fuel rail is full of air, try bleeding the air out of the system, by one of two methods.

1. have a helper crank the engine, while you depress the pin on the fuel rail schraeder valve, to bleed the air out. OR

2. jumper the fuel pump test pin on the self test connector to ground to allow/cause the fuel pumps to run continueously, while you depress the pin to bleed the air out of the system.

Next see if it starts. Also give us an idea of how long you had to bleed the system.

SelfTestConnector3.jpg

 

miesk5

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navyduck23

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I've spent probably (collectively) an hour or more bleeding the system, cranking the engine with the valve pin depressed. I plan on replacing the FPR either tomorrow or thursday, so we'll see then, if thats the issue.

 

miesk5

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yo,

If you can "rent" a fuel press tester gauge (NOT a tire press gauge);

Testing, Bronco & Ford - A high pressure fuel tester must be connected to the fuel relief valve on the fuel rail (usually a Schrader valve). First relieve fuel system pressure, then attach the tester. Next, turn the key on (engine off) to prime the fuel system. There should be 36-42PSI of pressure. Start the engine. The pressure at idle should remain within the same range. Rev the engine a few times to ensure fuel pressure remains constant. Excess pressure usually determines a faulty FPR. Too little pressure could be the FPR, fuel filter, fuel pumps, or a leak.

Source: by broncoii.org

 
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navyduck23

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RECAP:

changed fuel tank after puncturing it. both pumps running, fuel at the regulator, but seemingly NOT at the rails. started with brake cleaner down the intake (tells me there's air/spark)

UPDATE:

brand new FPR installed, problem still exists...

NOTES:

only air comes out of the shraeder valve (friend told me that no fuel is supposed to come out of it on a 2000 f-150) but it came out before i changed anything. i'm just having a **** of a time trying to figure out how this happens after only changing a fuel tank...lines are hooked up properly, but randomly there's something blocking fuel from getting to the rails...

 

BroncoJoe19

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When you replaced the tank... how much fuel did you put in there?

Did you measure the amount of fuel from the low pressure pump in the tank that is pumped in a 10 second interval? I think it is supposed to be about 8 ounces.

Does an '89 have a fuel reservoir?

You have only one tank, right?

 

miesk5

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yo Joe and ND,

Here is some info on that Single-Function Reservoir; "...Dual fuel pump systems must have a fuel accumulator between them. The model from BC Broncos is a multi-tasking wonder. Fuel accumulators store fuel from the low-pressure pump for the high-pressure pump. Storing fuel is a great idea for rock crawlers, as the accumulator holds a reserve of fuel, just in case gravity temporarily affects the gas tank. Accumulators also equalize fuel flow between the pumps. If one pump is pushing 72GPH and the other is only flowing 50GPH, something has to give. Once the accumulator is full, excess fuel flows out to the return fuel line, and back to the tank. This keeps the low-pressure pump from stressing the high-pressure pump. Normal accumulators stop there, but not the model from BC Broncos. They built one starting with a fuel filter. You get the accumulator and the filter all in one $70 package..."

Source: by Ryan M (Fireguy50 at fordfuelinjection.com

singlefunctionreservoir.jpg

"...'88 Single-Function Reservoir

Used on '88-89 Broncos (& F-series/E-series/Rangers/others with single tank dual-pump EFI). In this version, the only moving part is the tank-side inlet check valve. The return ports flow freely and are NOT connected to the reservoir. The engine-side supply port is open to the reservoir.

To test it, unplug the frame fuel pump, disconnect the engine-side supply (large) line, and cycle the key. If fuel flows out of the reservoir ******, the reservoir is working normally. If not, disconnect the tank-side supply (large) line, and cycle the key. If fuel flows out of the line, the reservoir check valve is probably stuck, or its internal filter is clogged.

A reservoir marked "DO NOT REMOVE CUP" does not contain a filter. For a replacement O-ring for the cup, buy a NAPA 3268, Fram CG3862, or equivalent filter...

Fuel flows in through the larger tank-side supply ****** from the in-tank pump to the inlet check valve, which allows it into the reservoir. As the cup fills, fuel moves up the pickup tube & out the larger engine-side supply ******. Unused fuel enters the engine-side return ******, bypasses the blocked-off check valve ('88 revision) and exits the tank-side return ******.

sflowleft.jpg

The only fault that would cause a noticeable problem would be for the check valve to stick closed, blocking any fuel from entering the reservoir, but this isn't likely. With the cup removed (have a replacement cup O-ring in-hand before attempting), a sharp pick can be used to pull the valve downward & open. The valve cannot be removed from the reservoir body.

Single-Function Reservoir Testing in 88-89; "...Used on '88-89 Broncos & F-series/E-series/Rangers/others with single tank dual-pump EFI. In this version, the only moving part is the tank-side inlet check valve. The return ports flow freely and are NOT connected to the reservoir. The engine-side supply port is open to the reservoir. To test it, unplug the frame fuel pump, disconnect the engine-side supply (large) line, and cycle the key. If fuel flows out of the reservoir ******, the reservoir is working normally. If not, disconnect the tank-side supply (large) line, and cycle the key. If fuel flows out of the line, the reservoir check valve is probably stuck, or its internal filter is clogged.

by Steve83

=====================

-- ND said "fuel at the regulator" but randomly there's something blocking fuel from getting to the rails...

If SFR check valve is ok;

So, next thAng to ck would be the rubber or steel fuel lines

Are there two fuel lines still there?

One is Supply - from tank/pumps/SFR to FPR/rail/injectors

Other is Return - from rail to FPR/tank

they are supposed to be different sized lines or hoses; but some swap in 5/8" rubber fuel hose instead.

 

budster 95

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Is it possible that the fuel line and the fuel return lines are crossed?

You have two pumps. Are they BOTH working?

When you turn your key to on/run, they will work for only a second or two, so this is a two person test.

You can trigger the pumps to run continuously to test them, by jumpering the self test connector.

 

How to use self test connector to troubleshoot fuel pump electrical problems

 

http://www.fordforumsonline.com/forum/engine-drivetrain/1396-1988-ranger-2-3l-wont-start.html
 
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navyduck23

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Yeah i took the pump out of the old tank, which was working less than a week before this whole incident. a friend who knows thisa motor pretty well said that only air is supposed to come fromk the shroeder valve on the drivers side fuelk rail, is this true? if so, could it be that a low battery is keeping this truck from starting? i mean it turns over, just refuses to fire... i don't have the money to keep replacing parts, hoping i manage to get the right one, and i need this thing running asap...

 

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