i pulled codes and now im scared...

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zintrex

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my bronc has going rough and has a surging idle and stalls when ideling. so i decided to pull me some codes. and help im scared.

some info about the car,

car is 80 mod bronco with a c6 gearbox, Engine is a 89 5l EFI engine, efi swap not done by me and looks like a bag of snakes.

i think a lot of the codes are gearbox related due to the ecm has 89 302 efi e4od.

so heres my codes in the order they got pooped out:

56-23-67-81-82-85-91-92-94-93-95-99-56-22-67-81-82-85-91-92-95-93-95-99

long pause and 1 then new set of codes:

34-56-97-95-99-34-56-67-95-99

as you can see i have a buttload of codes, so can anyone make some sense of this?

 
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zintrex

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a little addon to the info bout the car.

it runns good, as long as im moving but when the car stays still it has problems ideling, like when im stopping at a trafic ligth, it runns fine till i stop or rpm drops around 1000 to 1500 then starts having problems.

it usualy drops down to between 300 to 400 rpm then surges up to 1200 does that a coupple of times then surges between about 600 to 1200.

ive hooked up a accurate testing tach i have

when its in drive, it dies more easely than in neutral or park.

when the engine is cold it idles a little high but idles in all gears. and has no problems.

ive cheked the timing and its dead on 10degrees when the spout connector is out, and it adwances when its in.

over the last year ive swapped the MAP sensor and the tps,

ive cleaned and tested the IAC ,engine totaly refuses to idle when its diconnected, so it has to be ok i guess.

ive looked at the ford fuelinjection site, and my biggest suspicion is the tps code and the egr codes, most of those trans codes i dont think is the issue but maybe im wrong?

so ive been thinking bout buying one of those egr eliminators and ive just tested the tps to be shure:

TPS voltage with key on 0.65V with engine ideling 0.65V when i rev it and lets go it drops to a 1000rpm for a second or 3 then drops to 300 and starts surging.

 

miesk5

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yo Z,

That is a killer read-out for sure.

re:

surging idle and stalls when ideling.

car is 80 mod bronco with a c6 gearbox,

Engine is a 89 5l EFI engine,

efi swap not done by me and looks like a bag of snakes.

i think a lot of the codes are gearbox related due to the ecm has 89 302 efi e4od.

Yep, that's really pop some of the tranny control codes out for now.

Any other symptoms before this began?

All that stuff will def give you all kinds of false and maybe a few good Codes that are applicable to da symptoms; so let's concentrate on vacuum leaks and the diff in the PCMs and how they read the sensors;

Vacuum leaks; intake manifold, vacuum hoses, vacuum reservoirs (EGR Sys & Vacuum Tank (plastic ball type); Air Cond control ckt under dash & to heat/blend/etc. doors, power brake booster, cruise control ckt, etc.... where applicable.

at idle da vacuum should hold steady around 18-22 in-Hg &

"...Rev it up to ~2500 rpm, hold it steady, and you should see the needle drop, then slowly increase to a level close to the idle reading (though slightly lower is normal)..." by SigEP

Do you have a vac gauge?

gauge_panel.jpg

pic in an 83 by Steve83

It's one of the Best under $10.00 diagnostic tools that I've ever used.

Vacuum Gauge Diagnosis by Craig U at http://www.classictruckshop.com/clubs/earlyburbs/projects/vac/uum.htm

---

This is from a TSB for a later year, but this specific info is applicable.

The following is a list of vehicle symptoms which have been associated with the TPS, but can also be related to other vehicle components. Check engine light, Stalls, quits, hesitation/stumble, fast idle; To minimize the replacement of good components, be advised that the following non-EEC areas may be the issue: Excessive blow-by, PCV malfunction, Vacuum leaks, Fuel pressure, Throttle sticking or linkage binding.

Closed Throttle can be anywhere between 0.6-1.0 volts

Now here is Ford's statement on testing; the UPPER CASE is by Ford, not me..ok?

"...MANY VOLTMETERS WILL AUTOMATICALLY CHANGE RANGES WHEN MEASURING TPS OUTPUT FROM IDLE TO WOT. WHEN A VOLTMETER IS USED TO MEASURE TPS OUTPUT FROM IDLE TO WOT, THE METER SCALES OR CHANGES RANGES AUTOMATICALLY. THERE MAY BE AN ERRONEOUS METER DISPLAY UNTIL THE VOLTMETER HAS LOCKED TO THE APPROPRIATE VOLTAGE READING. THE ERRONEOUS METER DISPLAY DOES NOT REPRESENT A DEFECTIVE TPS. NOTE: IT IS RECOMMENDED THAT THE "RANGE LOCK" FEATURE ON MANY METERS BE SET FOR CHECKING TPS VOLTAGE..."

---------

Next up is da IAC;

ive cleaned and tested the IAC ,engine totaly refuses to idle when its diconnected, so it has to be ok i guess. That's correct

Testing may be achieved by bringing the engine to operating temperature, noting the idle speed (should be within spec). Unplug the unit’s electrical connector, and the idle should drop to about 650 RPM. When the unit is reinstalled, it should return to normal idle speed. If the vehicle does not idle at proper RPM (too low), there are no vacuum leaks, and the TPS calibration is correct, than the unit is most likely fault

-

I guess you went thru a lot of the following since you stated a lot of the info in your post, but I did have some sludge inside the IAC on my 96 that set-off a code for the IAC.. it was sorta like a strand of hair that gets gucked upin a drain... inside the TB IAC port.

BTW, were these Ford MotorCraft parts?

There are many folks that are coming up with BAD QUALITY/out of spec & / or non-fitting sensors, ignition cylinders, DFPEs and now air filter elemnts and so-on....

Overview & Testing; "First let me say this little thing has many names. But they all talk about the same item under the hood. Here all the names I’ve had the torture of learning throughout the years: Idle Air Bypass •Idle Air Control •Idle Speed Control •Throttle Bypass Air •Idle Bypass •Inlet Air Controller •Inlet Air Bypass •Intake Air Bypass •Intake Air Control..."

Source: by Ryan M (Fireguy50) at http://fordfuelinjection.com/index.php?p=39

Esp;

"...When you take you foot of the pedal the IAB is at 100% to prevent stalling.

•As the engine returns to idle speeds the IAB lowers the duty cycle to keep the RPM stable.

When the vehicle comes to a stop the IAB is now controlling the Idle..."

READ MORE there

----

Idle Air Control (IAC) Sludge; Poor Idle TSB 91-25-07 for 85-92 Bronco & F Series & many others; "...Hard cold starts, hesitation and stalls on initial start-up or during idle or decel may be caused by sludge in the throttle body and/or idle by-pass valve. Sludge deposits or oil film on the throttle body bore and plate or the idle air by-pass valve may cause one or more of the following conditions. Hard Cold Start, Stall On Initial Start-Up, Stall During Idle, Stall During Decel, Rough Idle, Rolling Idle, Hesitation During Acceleration. A new idle air by-pass service kit (F2PZ-9F939-A) is now available for service use to correct sludge contamination concerns of the throttle bore and plate only. It eliminates the need to clean the majority of past model throttle body applications. Cleaning is not required on sludge tolerant throttle body designs released for 1991 and newer model years..." READ & SEE Much More

Source: by Ford via Steve83 (Steve, That dirty old truck) at http://www.supermotors.net/registry/media/724437

A vacuum leak is one of the most common causes and can be checked with a vacuum pump

 

miesk5

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yo,

btw, do you have the EGR & Secondary Air sys on it now?

A stuck EGR valve resembles a vacuum leak & can result in rough idling/ stalling

 
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zintrex

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yo.

the car has basicly been like this all the time ive had it. it had been sitting for almost 3 years due to a broken rear diff and lazy owner.

previus owned is a good friend of mine and ive been drooling over the bronco ever since i first saw it in 2000.

The EGR valve and stuff is there BUT the AIR pump and that systems is not there, and i have never seen it...

i also have a open tread in the fsb forums, (dont shoot me for mentioning a rival forum please.)

and ive done some testing.

so what i have done so far in this order:

- before starting it first time i changed ALL vacume hoses i coud find, changed oil, (engine gearbox transfer rear axle and front axle.)

- last fall i changed the map sensor. dint help, the car sat idle entire vinter.

- i also cleaned the IAC it wasnt too bad.

- this spring i changed the tps, and ive dubble tested it and it read 0,65V at idle

- 3 days ago i decided to stop trowing parts at it and run self test. and out comes za codes.

- last nigth i sat down and read almost everything on the fordfuelinjection.com site, to learn more bout the ford systems, (i know audi and vw)

- today i decided to "test" the egr by pulling the vacume hose and BINGO it idles fine at 760 to 780 rpm, (maybe a tiny bit high?)

so knowing that when vacume is lost to the EGR valve it runs ok, i tested the EGR Vacuum Regulator by simply unplugging it, and IT still lets vacume come past. and engine surges and dies

so i think my main problem is the EGR Vacuum Regulator.

So so far ive learnt:

1 my pcm is for electronic gearbox, and will always give me a buttload of codes,

2 my EGR Vacuum Regulator is most likely bad.

so now my shopping list is:

1 pcm for a 5L with a aod (thats the non electronic one rigth?)

2 a new EGR Vacuum Regulator

the main reason for getting a new pcm is to loose the annoying codes, and also this fall the car will get a LPG convertion (propane)

and i want the engine to run well and without any problems before adding more stuff to it.

EDIT:

is it bad forthe engine to run without the vacume hose to the egr valve?

gotta ask cause im not too good with ford systems

 
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miesk5

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yo

ok.. let me post this quickly in case you or I have to leave now

EVR:

vacuum should vent from the green line on a good valve NOT energized.

When energized, vacuum should hold from the black to the green. Resistance across the terminals should be 20-70 ohms

Testing; "...Remove the EVR solenoid; Attempt to lightly blow air into the EVR solenoid. If air blows through the solenoid, replace the solenoid with a new one. If air does not pass freely through the solenoid, continue with the test. Apply battery voltage (approximately 1 volts) and a ground to the EVR solenoid electrical terminals. Attempt to lightly blow air, once again, through the solenoid. If air does not pass through the solenoid, replace the solenoid with a new one. If air does not flow through the solenoid, the solenoid is OK..." (under license from Delmar Publishers, comb of Chilton/Nichols/Delmar & Haynes); some may be incorrect, as reported by Seabronc, thanks Seabronc! NEW SITE URL!!! MUST REGISTER TO VIEW; select year, make, model, engine size and go to appropriate section

Source: by Chilton via Autozone

Overview & Testing; "...PFE EGR System ...This system contains a sharp edged metering orifice, the Pressure Feedback EGR (PFE) sensor, the Electronic Vacuum Regulator (EVR) and the PFE EGR valve ..." read more Source: by tomco-inc.com

DTC 31, 32. 33. 34. 35. 38 or 84 - EGR Valve Position (EVP) Sensor & EGR Vacuum Regulator Solenoid (EVR) Testing

Source: by Dustin S (Dustball, Mellow Yellow, Mr. Laser Boy) at http://ylobronc.users.superford.org/documents/egr/

 

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