HELP - EFI won't start

[jeh2001]

HELP! I've never ever had this much problem with an engine EVER! I put an RJM Injection Tech harness, 1989 Manifold/sensors/distributor/etc. on my 1976 302 Bronco. It turns over but will not start; it ran before this "fun".

Here is what I do know. Engine is timed for 10BTDC, confirmed with timing light when SPOUT is disconnected. Fuel pressure is 37-38 lbs, confirmed with dash mounted electronic guage with the sensor immediately before the fuel rail. Injectors have 12VDC and are getting the pulse signal from the computer, Ignition Control Module (on distributor) checked good at Autozone. Throttle position sensor is working correctly (VREF, Ground, Position all ok). All cylinders are getting spark, confirmed with timing light. Spark seems strong enough, confirmed by pulling #1, grounding and looking at it. Key On Engine Off codes are as expected 81,82, 85, 84 (all EGR related and according to RJM instructions they are ok); no other codes. I looked for obvious vacuum leaks but didn't find anything.

I've double checked the spark wires (#1 is forward on Pass side, #5 is forward on Driver side, #8 is backmost on Drivers side). Firing order for Bronco is 15426378. Firing order for the harness/Mustang is 13726584. I called RJM about this and they said it should fire and run fine with the Mustang firing order, not optimum but ok. So... that isn't the problem. Incidently the RJM folks work real good and walked through the system.

I have AllData.com and tried to follow their charts for troubleshooting, but, without the Ford breakout box it is about impossible...

So... any suggestions. I had my wife helping me last night and first thing this AM. She's been through the rebuild of my 944 Porsche, many tractors, lots of cars, etc. Her reaction is that it is something simple and stupid. Probably right but I can't figure it out.

Any and all suggestions appreciated! - John

 

[Rons beast]

Is the engine cranking but not firing? Or cranking and backfireing, and chugging? If it's the later you may be 180 out of time.

I still cannot grasp how two different firing orders are gonna be OK though!

I would be suspect of anybody that tells you having any code is "OK". I don't think you are getting all the right info from RJM.

 

[Bully Bob]

"(#1 is forward on Pass side, #5 is forward on Driver side, #8 is backmost on Drivers side). Firing order for Bronco is 15426378"

This is correct for a '76 Br 302.

AGREE with Ron..., in that no other firing order would work.

Check me but.., the firing order is determined by crank & cam., not the ign. system.

Was the cam, &/or timing chain, & gears R & R'd..??

 

[jeh2001]

I've tried both firing orders without any success. The engine turns over without any coughing, bucking, no good or bad firing. The only time I've seen life is by squirting starting fluid into the throttle body and turning it over. It sputters and backfires then just turns over again.

I've verified that I have fuel in the rail and that injectors are openning. I connected a spare injector to the wiring and was shooting "air" like it should. I have good hot spark, timed at 10 BTDC. I've checked the timing marks to #1 piston TDC and made sure the rotor is pointed at #1 cylinder distributor cap post.

I agree that the firing order is an issue, but, it should show some form of life. 4 out of 8 cylinders are in the right order either way.

I've rebuilt the distributor, checked the ignition module (good), changed the idle air valve, verified that return fuel is coming out of the fuel rail... any other suggestions?

Thanks for your help.

 

[Bully Bob]

"timed at 10 BTDC. I've checked the timing marks to #1 piston TDC and made sure the rotor is pointed at #1 cylinder distributor cap post."

This is all good....

Maybe I missed it but., RU sure valves are closed at this point (noted above)..? i.e. compression stroke.

Could be 180deg. off with dizzy......?

---- That's simple & stupid....& I've don it a time or two... :blink: :blush: :lol: ---

 

[jeh2001]

Problem Solved - everything was done correctly EXCEPT all 8 fuel injectors were clogged. Here is a summary of how I got to this point and how RJM Injection (harness maker) provided SUPERIOR support and got me heading right.

1. I bought a junked 1989 Mustang 5.0 engine, harness, manifold, computer, etc. My Bronco 302 was by far the better engine so I moved parts from the Mustang ** engine to the Bronco engine. Unfortunately I didn't move or save the Mustang cam and I spent a bit of time being confused over the Bronco firing order and the Mustang 5.0 ** order (more on this in a bit). I tried to use the Mustang harness but connectors were broken, there were a ton of pieces not used and that I didn't get off the Mustang (air bags, O2's, alternator, and a bunch more. So... I finally bought the RJM harness. Excellent product and SUPERIOR product support. They have spent a couple of hours talking with me about the problems I had and listened to what I had done and was seeing. They were the ones who concluded the only possible cause would be 8 clogged injectors. They also explained that the mismatched firing orders weren't really a problem... They were absolutely correct.

2. I bought parts from several Bronco suppliers to support shifting to EFI including low and high pressure fuel pumps, fuel accumulator tank, a serpentine belt system using a bunch of products. My a/c compressor (Vintage Air) changed to the driver side above the power steering pump. The compressor style also changed so I have get new hoses made. The serpentine belt drives the water pump "backwards" from the Bronco V belt system so I had to install a water pump that would work. I elected to use a special one that feeds the radiator on the passenger side (normal). Some folks have used the Mustang (5.0 ** and 351 pump) and plumbed a custom pipe... I rebuild the dash with new switches, added Fuel Pressure and Voltage Gauges, fixed up the wiring, and I now going to install a new fuse panel. To better fit the high rise Mustang manifold under the Bronco hood I added 3" body lift. This compounded "the lean" making it unbearable so I fixed it with new bushings and other suspension parts. I also moved the battery to the rear next to the passenger side tailgate and installed a small auxiliary radiator. I'm on the Gulf of Mexico coast in Mississippi (think Hurricane Katrina...) and I cooling problems with the A/C and at idle until I did this. I also rebuilt the radiator core support and was able to move the radiator forward a couple of inches. Somewhere in here I did a bunch of body work and repainted. Once everything is back together I may do another cover coat too. Oh yeah, I also rebuilt the T18 4 speed and Dana transfer case.

Whew - so finally I got around to finishing the EFI swap. After cleaning the injectors the 302 roared to life instantly.

What's left on the project - clean up from tearing into everything troubleshooting the EFI install, button up the engine compartment hoses, wiring, vacuum, etc. Installing the fenders, hood, and grill. Installing the drive shafts. I chucked out the old seats so I also need to buy/install new front seats, install a stereo system, and finally I need to decide and "do" either the hardtop (recondition it and paint it) or install a soft top.

That's my Bronco.

Thanks for all the suggestions. I never would have believed that I could get 8 clogged injectors... but... that was it!

 

[Bully Bob]

That's amazing..!! Sounds like a well built rig.

BTW, WHERE are all the pics..???

And., a BIG thanks for posting the solutions/results....that's rare on this board. Excellent post & update.!

B