Hello all.. hope all is well... Anyways i have 1993 Ford Bronco 351w .30 over that just got rebuilt due to old warn out motor, Anyhow lets get started the truck seem to either have a bad misfire or fuel problem it has a case of engine shakes i am not getting any codes other than 111 .... Things i have replaces Cap & Rotor, Plugs, and Wires. Egr Valve and tube i have checked all vacuum lines none were broke i have replaces tps sensor also evp sensor. fuel pressure regulator, fuel filter also i have check the EEC for burnt smell/spots and there where none. Im just out of ideas any ideas are greatly appericated
5.8 runs good cold but warm i have a engine shake/misfire/fuel proble
- Thread starter jackclark
- Start date
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yo Jack,
Welcome!
This is the 1994 PCED OBDI-A
SECTION 7A: EEC-IV Intermittent Fault Diagnosis
EEC-IV MONITOR: Symptom and Continuous DTC Charts — STEP 8
In this step, select one of fourteen symptoms from the chart below. If a Continuous DTC is occurring, go to the Continuous Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) chart listed below. After the symptom or DTC is selected, you will be directed to the appropriate visual/mechanical checks and EEC checks. Continue to STEP9 - Road Test Set-Up.
http://www.thedieselstop.com/faq/9497faq/maint/vra/vra07006.htm
For example;
Misses in Idle and Cruise, see Chart 9
http://www.thedieselstop.com/faq/9497faq/maint/vra/vra07015.htm#vrachart9
•Check vacuum lines for leaks or wear.
Get a good quality Vacuum Gauge from Parts Store
see my Vacuum leak test Acronyms & gauge pic here @ http://broncozone.com/topic/23994-90-58l-getting-continuous-code-33-and-running-code-44/
Post #20
Also go through the HVAC Control panel to "exercise" (our Pal BroncoJoe enjoys this) all functions incl. AC, Defrost, Vent, etc.
The air handling system is designed to provide defrost when no vacuum is applied to any of the three air door vacuum motors. This is done to prevent a situation where defrost cannot be obtained due to a system vacuum leak. Instead, a leak in the vacuum control circuit will send all airflow to the defroster outlets. This condition may occur during acceleration (slow leak), may exist at all times (large leak) and may happen only when certain specific functions are selected, indicating a leak in that portion of the circuit. ..." from F-150, F-250, F-350, F-Super Duty and Bronco, F-Super Duty Motorhome Chassis Workshop Manual
Source: by Ford
Check Fuel Pressure
http://www.thedieselstop.com/faq/9497faq/maint/vra/vra06049.htm#vra06hschem
Most parts stores have a loan a tool program with hefty deposit that is fully refundable upon retur (inspect it before giving deposit, check that all accessories are included)
Timing Adjustment in Ford EFI Engines; MIESK5 NOTE; Spark timing that is ******** from specification may increase exhaust gas temperature and shorten catalyst life. Refer to the following procedure for service details. a. Check spark timing. Check base timing with spout disconnected.
Set base timing to the specification on the vehicle emission decal.
b. Check computed timing with spout connected.
NOTE: COMPUTED TIMING IS EQUAL TO BASE TIMING PLUS 20° BTDC ± 3°.
Use the ignition key only to start the vehicle. Attaching a remote starter might disable or initiate the start mode timing after the vehicle is started..." READ MORE
Source: by Ryan M (Fireguy50) at http://web.archive.org/web/20130817010931/http://oldfuelinjection.com/?p=71
Welcome!
This is the 1994 PCED OBDI-A
SECTION 7A: EEC-IV Intermittent Fault Diagnosis
EEC-IV MONITOR: Symptom and Continuous DTC Charts — STEP 8
In this step, select one of fourteen symptoms from the chart below. If a Continuous DTC is occurring, go to the Continuous Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) chart listed below. After the symptom or DTC is selected, you will be directed to the appropriate visual/mechanical checks and EEC checks. Continue to STEP9 - Road Test Set-Up.
http://www.thedieselstop.com/faq/9497faq/maint/vra/vra07006.htm
For example;
Misses in Idle and Cruise, see Chart 9
http://www.thedieselstop.com/faq/9497faq/maint/vra/vra07015.htm#vrachart9
•Check vacuum lines for leaks or wear.
Get a good quality Vacuum Gauge from Parts Store
see my Vacuum leak test Acronyms & gauge pic here @ http://broncozone.com/topic/23994-90-58l-getting-continuous-code-33-and-running-code-44/
Post #20
Also go through the HVAC Control panel to "exercise" (our Pal BroncoJoe enjoys this) all functions incl. AC, Defrost, Vent, etc.
The air handling system is designed to provide defrost when no vacuum is applied to any of the three air door vacuum motors. This is done to prevent a situation where defrost cannot be obtained due to a system vacuum leak. Instead, a leak in the vacuum control circuit will send all airflow to the defroster outlets. This condition may occur during acceleration (slow leak), may exist at all times (large leak) and may happen only when certain specific functions are selected, indicating a leak in that portion of the circuit. ..." from F-150, F-250, F-350, F-Super Duty and Bronco, F-Super Duty Motorhome Chassis Workshop Manual
Source: by Ford
Check Fuel Pressure
http://www.thedieselstop.com/faq/9497faq/maint/vra/vra06049.htm#vra06hschem
Most parts stores have a loan a tool program with hefty deposit that is fully refundable upon retur (inspect it before giving deposit, check that all accessories are included)
Timing Adjustment in Ford EFI Engines; MIESK5 NOTE; Spark timing that is ******** from specification may increase exhaust gas temperature and shorten catalyst life. Refer to the following procedure for service details. a. Check spark timing. Check base timing with spout disconnected.
Set base timing to the specification on the vehicle emission decal.
b. Check computed timing with spout connected.
NOTE: COMPUTED TIMING IS EQUAL TO BASE TIMING PLUS 20° BTDC ± 3°.
Use the ignition key only to start the vehicle. Attaching a remote starter might disable or initiate the start mode timing after the vehicle is started..." READ MORE
Source: by Ryan M (Fireguy50) at http://web.archive.org/web/20130817010931/http://oldfuelinjection.com/?p=71
yo Jack,
You should just see 3 digit codes;
Ford went from two-digit to three-digit EEC IV Self-Test codes in 1991 to service the increasing number of service codes required to support various government On-Board Diagnostic (OBD) regulations. The phase-in from two-digit to three-digit codes started in the 1991 model year and is largely complete except for some medium/heavy trucks that will retain two digit codes through the 1994 model year.
Get a helper when you do the self-tests; always good to have 2 more eyes on the target
116 in KOEO and in KOER;
ECT out of self test range 0.3 to 3.7 volts.
Check Engine light is on continuously, hesitation, poor mileage or rich exhaust odor, poor performance and economy. Inspect for damage or corrosion on terminals. Check sensor for carbon accumulation or contaminants which can cause false readings..."
the ECT sensor is telling the PCM that it is colder than -40 degrees below zero.
This in turn can cause the engine to be run too rich and basically foul out the plugs. As you know, get a t stat in there and ck, clean or replace plugs; then test again after driving
DTC 116 to 118 ECT Troubleshooting & Possible Causes; "...The ECT sensor is a thermistor, basically a resistor that changes voltage accordingly to temperature changes. It provides a reading that's used by the EEC to change fuel delivery at engine startup to reduce emissions and monitors the temperature of the engine. If you see some rust in it clean it by sanding the surface using a fine grit sandpaper, Also check the connector and wiring..."
--------
Overview & Testing
by Ryan M (Fireguy50) at http://web.archive.org/web/20111108220706/http://fordfuelinjection.com/?p=10
Location pic (ECT & Temperature Gauge Sending Unit)
Source: by Gacknar (The Mall-Crawler, Jeremy, "Big grey megga beast") at http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/265237/original/GT-40%20lower%20intake.JPG
You should just see 3 digit codes;
Ford went from two-digit to three-digit EEC IV Self-Test codes in 1991 to service the increasing number of service codes required to support various government On-Board Diagnostic (OBD) regulations. The phase-in from two-digit to three-digit codes started in the 1991 model year and is largely complete except for some medium/heavy trucks that will retain two digit codes through the 1994 model year.
Get a helper when you do the self-tests; always good to have 2 more eyes on the target
116 in KOEO and in KOER;
ECT out of self test range 0.3 to 3.7 volts.
Check Engine light is on continuously, hesitation, poor mileage or rich exhaust odor, poor performance and economy. Inspect for damage or corrosion on terminals. Check sensor for carbon accumulation or contaminants which can cause false readings..."
the ECT sensor is telling the PCM that it is colder than -40 degrees below zero.
This in turn can cause the engine to be run too rich and basically foul out the plugs. As you know, get a t stat in there and ck, clean or replace plugs; then test again after driving
DTC 116 to 118 ECT Troubleshooting & Possible Causes; "...The ECT sensor is a thermistor, basically a resistor that changes voltage accordingly to temperature changes. It provides a reading that's used by the EEC to change fuel delivery at engine startup to reduce emissions and monitors the temperature of the engine. If you see some rust in it clean it by sanding the surface using a fine grit sandpaper, Also check the connector and wiring..."
--------
Overview & Testing
by Ryan M (Fireguy50) at http://web.archive.org/web/20111108220706/http://fordfuelinjection.com/?p=10
Location pic (ECT & Temperature Gauge Sending Unit)
Source: by Gacknar (The Mall-Crawler, Jeremy, "Big grey megga beast") at http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/265237/original/GT-40%20lower%20intake.JPG
alright replaced ECT and drove for about 15 miles code gone a now only code im getting now is a 332 which i have replaced the egr and all the lines and the code is still there like i said it only does this when motor is warmed up
im stumped
im stumped
Last edited by a moderator:
yo Jack,
That loose wire could be the issue; can you solder and use a heat sink to avoid frying the Intel microprocessor or board.
You can use this;
Capacitor Repair in a 90 5.8
Source: by seedpress (dolittle) at http://broncozone.com/topic/20788-fuel-delivery-problem/
Capacitor Repair, Failures Due to Age; "...(A9x and same years ECM's) The patient in question is a remanufactured A9L unit. This ECM is the one from a little notch project I'm working on. It started giving some problems starting up, engine flooding, random hesitation, missing and stalls. I opened up the ECM (the car is running with a A9S unit) after the owner brought it for a checkup. What you see is the typical electrolytic capacitors leak, causing intermittent shorts/opens to the neighboring circuits/components and symptoms as the ones explained. Worst case scenarios with this type of failure, is a permanent no start and permanent damage to the PWB preventing it could be repaired. As soon as I replace the capacitors I'll update with the pictures showing the repairs. The following capacitor does not show any leakage problems however, it will also be replaced as a preventative measure..." read more
Source: by Joel5.0 http://web.archive.org/web/20130910010339/http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,15654.0.html
=========
DTC 332 - Insufficient EGR flow detected. "...Atop the EGR valve there is a sensor called the EVP (EGR Valve Position) sensor. It detects movement of the pintle iside the EGR valve. You can apply vacuum to the vacuum barb on the EGR valve and observe through the holes in the casting whether the valve is moving or not. It may just be dirty which requires some careful scrubbing and NO SOLVENTS. Otherwise, if the EGR valve is functioning and moving when vacuum is applied, the EVP sensor is suspect and the electrical connections to it should be checked first. (Computer needs to know the EGR valve position for emissions control)..."
Source: by greystreak92 (Joe B)
DTC 332 in a 95; "...CHECK YOUR VACUUM CANISTER; I had this issue for well over a year. I did all my proper checks using the blueprint that Meisk5 gave me. I went through the EVP, manually checked the EGR, all vacuum hose that was pertinent, etc.; removed my vacuum canister to install my new one and this is what I found underneath.
I replaced it with this canister (rust bullet applied) from my donor truck and finished it with BlackShell. Now....Engine Code 332 is GONE. My Bronco RUNS LIKE BRAND NEW!!!
.."
Source: by td 152
DTC 332; "...Continuous Memory DTC 332 indicates the EGR valve did not open with the engine stabilized and the EVR solenoid duty cycle present sometime during vehicle operation. Possible causes: "...Obstructed or cracked hose to EGR valve,Icing, Damaged EGR valve, Damaged EVR solenoid harness..."
Source: by Ford via SigEpBlue (Steve)
That loose wire could be the issue; can you solder and use a heat sink to avoid frying the Intel microprocessor or board.
You can use this;
Capacitor Repair in a 90 5.8
Source: by seedpress (dolittle) at http://broncozone.com/topic/20788-fuel-delivery-problem/
Capacitor Repair, Failures Due to Age; "...(A9x and same years ECM's) The patient in question is a remanufactured A9L unit. This ECM is the one from a little notch project I'm working on. It started giving some problems starting up, engine flooding, random hesitation, missing and stalls. I opened up the ECM (the car is running with a A9S unit) after the owner brought it for a checkup. What you see is the typical electrolytic capacitors leak, causing intermittent shorts/opens to the neighboring circuits/components and symptoms as the ones explained. Worst case scenarios with this type of failure, is a permanent no start and permanent damage to the PWB preventing it could be repaired. As soon as I replace the capacitors I'll update with the pictures showing the repairs. The following capacitor does not show any leakage problems however, it will also be replaced as a preventative measure..." read more
Source: by Joel5.0 http://web.archive.org/web/20130910010339/http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,15654.0.html
=========
DTC 332 - Insufficient EGR flow detected. "...Atop the EGR valve there is a sensor called the EVP (EGR Valve Position) sensor. It detects movement of the pintle iside the EGR valve. You can apply vacuum to the vacuum barb on the EGR valve and observe through the holes in the casting whether the valve is moving or not. It may just be dirty which requires some careful scrubbing and NO SOLVENTS. Otherwise, if the EGR valve is functioning and moving when vacuum is applied, the EVP sensor is suspect and the electrical connections to it should be checked first. (Computer needs to know the EGR valve position for emissions control)..."
Source: by greystreak92 (Joe B)
DTC 332 in a 95; "...CHECK YOUR VACUUM CANISTER; I had this issue for well over a year. I did all my proper checks using the blueprint that Meisk5 gave me. I went through the EVP, manually checked the EGR, all vacuum hose that was pertinent, etc.; removed my vacuum canister to install my new one and this is what I found underneath.
I replaced it with this canister (rust bullet applied) from my donor truck and finished it with BlackShell. Now....Engine Code 332 is GONE. My Bronco RUNS LIKE BRAND NEW!!!
.."
Source: by td 152
DTC 332; "...Continuous Memory DTC 332 indicates the EGR valve did not open with the engine stabilized and the EVR solenoid duty cycle present sometime during vehicle operation. Possible causes: "...Obstructed or cracked hose to EGR valve,Icing, Damaged EGR valve, Damaged EVR solenoid harness..."
Source: by Ford via SigEpBlue (Steve)
Last edited by a moderator:
how can i test the ecm??? should i just replace it the only thing i could see what a burnt wire from the capacitor.. early today i was driving it and it was fine for about 10 mins then the intermediate missing was back i have checked all grounds and all possible vacuum leaks pretty much every sensor i have replaced..
yo Jack,
DTC 332; "...Continuous Memory DTC 332 indicates the EGR valve did not open with the engine stabilized and the EVR solenoid duty cycle present sometime during vehicle operation. Possible causes: "...Obstructed or cracked hose to EGR valve,Icing, Damaged EGR valve, Damaged EVR solenoid harness..."
Source: by Ford via SigEpBlue (Steve)
Check underside of your egr valve and feel to see if the diaphragm moves as it warms up. if not you may need to replace it. be careful not to bur yourself though, the engine and egr can get very hot very quickly. by GH
a Bad EEC would give various No start or multiple DTCs (for a few sensors) as described by seedpress and Joel5.0
"... An important note we must cover now is that the EEC operates a majority of the sensors at 5-volts DC. ... the alternator and batteries are not dependable for voltage supply when it comes to sensitive electronics. The automotive electrical system ranges from 10-14 volts on an average day. Inside EEC is a voltage regulator, this steps the voltage down to a constant 5-volts. This voltage is called Reference Voltage (V-REF ). The sensors are supplied with this Reference Voltage and the sensor returns a variable amount of this to the EEC to indicate the status of the system the sensors is watching.
Some of the sensors need a special ground to get rid of the left over Reference Voltage that isn't sent to the EEC as a status. The EEC also provides a 5-volt ground loop for these select sensors. This special ground is called Signal Return (SIG-RTN). Lets quickly explain how this all works. The EEC sends a 5-volt Reference Voltage to a sensor; the sensor sends 1.87 (in your case MAP) volts back to the EEC as the sensor status, and the rest of the voltage (which should be 3.13-volts) down the Signal Return (SIG-RTN) ..." by Ryan M
Check the ECT connector and wiring again; try to wiggle the wiring and connector (connector has worked itself loose, causing an intermittent false connection. Usual cks (corrosion, terminal back-out) while eng is running well;
have someone watch Check Engine light. Same for other sensors such as TPS...
of course, BEWARE of Fan, belts, pulleys, hot engine and components.
Key On Engine Off Wiggle Test Procedure
1. Hook up Scan Tool.
2.Turn the ignition key to the ON position.
3. For Scan Tool, enter Diagnostic Test Mode (DTM), then enter wiggle DTM.
4.Tap, move, and wiggle the suspect sensor and/or harness. When a fault is detected, a Continuous Memory DTC will be stored in memory and indicated as follows:
•Transmission Control Indicator Lamp (TCIL)
•Message Center (Continental Only)
•Scan Tool: Continuous Tone
Engine Running Wiggle Test Procedure
Special Note:
•The Engine Running Wiggle Test may be activated any time the engine is running.
1.Hook up Scan Tool as shown.
2.Key off.
3.Start the engine.
4.For For Scan Tool, enter DTM, then enter wiggle DTM.
5.Tap, move, and wiggle the suspect sensor and/or harness or drive the vehicle. When a fault is detected, a Continuous Memory DTC will be stored in memory and indicated as follows:
•Transmission Control Indicator Lamp (TCIL)
•Message Center (Continental Only)
•Scan Tool: Beeps
DTC 332; "...Continuous Memory DTC 332 indicates the EGR valve did not open with the engine stabilized and the EVR solenoid duty cycle present sometime during vehicle operation. Possible causes: "...Obstructed or cracked hose to EGR valve,Icing, Damaged EGR valve, Damaged EVR solenoid harness..."
Source: by Ford via SigEpBlue (Steve)
Check underside of your egr valve and feel to see if the diaphragm moves as it warms up. if not you may need to replace it. be careful not to bur yourself though, the engine and egr can get very hot very quickly. by GH
a Bad EEC would give various No start or multiple DTCs (for a few sensors) as described by seedpress and Joel5.0
"... An important note we must cover now is that the EEC operates a majority of the sensors at 5-volts DC. ... the alternator and batteries are not dependable for voltage supply when it comes to sensitive electronics. The automotive electrical system ranges from 10-14 volts on an average day. Inside EEC is a voltage regulator, this steps the voltage down to a constant 5-volts. This voltage is called Reference Voltage (V-REF ). The sensors are supplied with this Reference Voltage and the sensor returns a variable amount of this to the EEC to indicate the status of the system the sensors is watching.
Some of the sensors need a special ground to get rid of the left over Reference Voltage that isn't sent to the EEC as a status. The EEC also provides a 5-volt ground loop for these select sensors. This special ground is called Signal Return (SIG-RTN). Lets quickly explain how this all works. The EEC sends a 5-volt Reference Voltage to a sensor; the sensor sends 1.87 (in your case MAP) volts back to the EEC as the sensor status, and the rest of the voltage (which should be 3.13-volts) down the Signal Return (SIG-RTN) ..." by Ryan M
Check the ECT connector and wiring again; try to wiggle the wiring and connector (connector has worked itself loose, causing an intermittent false connection. Usual cks (corrosion, terminal back-out) while eng is running well;
have someone watch Check Engine light. Same for other sensors such as TPS...
of course, BEWARE of Fan, belts, pulleys, hot engine and components.
Key On Engine Off Wiggle Test Procedure
1. Hook up Scan Tool.
2.Turn the ignition key to the ON position.
3. For Scan Tool, enter Diagnostic Test Mode (DTM), then enter wiggle DTM.
4.Tap, move, and wiggle the suspect sensor and/or harness. When a fault is detected, a Continuous Memory DTC will be stored in memory and indicated as follows:
•Transmission Control Indicator Lamp (TCIL)
•Message Center (Continental Only)
•Scan Tool: Continuous Tone
Engine Running Wiggle Test Procedure
Special Note:
•The Engine Running Wiggle Test may be activated any time the engine is running.
1.Hook up Scan Tool as shown.
2.Key off.
3.Start the engine.
4.For For Scan Tool, enter DTM, then enter wiggle DTM.
5.Tap, move, and wiggle the suspect sensor and/or harness or drive the vehicle. When a fault is detected, a Continuous Memory DTC will be stored in memory and indicated as follows:
•Transmission Control Indicator Lamp (TCIL)
•Message Center (Continental Only)
•Scan Tool: Beeps
Last edited by a moderator:
yo Jack,
I replied in your newest post;
http://broncozone.com/topic/24709-58-runs-better-when-o2-sensor-is-unplugged/
I replied in your newest post;
http://broncozone.com/topic/24709-58-runs-better-when-o2-sensor-is-unplugged/
