Proper suspension lift

[alexr88]

I just bought my first EB and I am starting a frame up restoration on it. I just finished removing the body from the frame and notice all my body bushings need replacement. Should I keep the same sice as stock or should I use a body lift ones?? I need to know if I should do a body lift in convination with the suspension lift.

If a a suspension lift is enough, which one is recomended in order to fit 37 inch tires. The reason I am installing 37 inch tires is because I got a great deal on them (5 tires for 500).

Bottom line I am looking for sugestions of anybody that has a similar set up on their EB. This way I know what works and what doesn't.

Alex R.

 

[Broncobill78]

I just bought my first EB and I am starting a frame up restoration on it. I just finished removing the body from the frame and notice all my body bushings need replacement. Should I keep the same sice as stock or should I use a body lift ones?? I need to know if I should do a body lift in convination with the suspension lift.
If a a suspension lift is enough, which one is recomended in order to fit 37 inch tires. The reason I am installing 37 inch tires is because I got a great deal on them (5 tires for 500).

Bottom line I am looking for sugestions of anybody that has a similar set up on their EB. This way I know what works and what doesn't.

Alex R.

Well it kinda depends on a few things. A suspension lift all by itself will give you the clearence to run the tires *and* has the advantage of giving you additional suspension travel. The larger the lift the more travel you'll have, so if you do the whole thing with a suspension lift you'll maximize the additional travel you'll get out of the deal. On the other hand if you have plans to swap out the engine then you may want to consider using a body lift as well. The 351 is a wider & taller engine and you'll start running out of space on the firewall real quick once you put one in. A body lift can give you the space you'll need for things like a vacuum booster & master cylinder. Body lifts can be a hassle to install because of all the bracketry & linkage mods that have to be made. The fuel filler neck, fan shroud, gas, brake & shift linkages, bumpers & brake lines all need to be modified, and that's just the *start* of it. Generally speaking, you put in a suspension lift and you're done. With a body lift you've got weeks of screwing around with details not to mention now you've got that big goofy looking space between the body & frame that just screams "BODY LIFT". I'd do the whole thing with suspension unless there was a compelling reason to move the body up. There are plenty of good 300-350hp 302's out there and that's more than most folks really need anyways.

 

[S_bolt19]

First off, how much metal do you want to cut away from the fenders & inner aprons & such? A suspension lift alone will not get you out of harms way with 37s. You will need to do something with either a body lift or some pretty good fender trimming to get those meats under it. Put it this way, I have been running 33/34" tires on mine for the past 9 years and both tire sizes rub in full flex and I am running 5.5" coils & 4.5" leafs. Typically, most guys who have an EB and have that size tire go with a 5.5" lift and either a 1 or 2 inch body lift. Any more body lift than that and you are asking for trouble. 5.5" is also the tallest suspension lift on the market.

As for having to have a BL to get a differen't type of brake system under it, I am going to correct ya Bill, you don't have to have one unless you go with a kit that was not made for an EB. You can put hydro-boost or vacuum under the hood with a stock height vehicle.

 

[Broncobill78]

As for having to have a BL to get a differen't type of brake system under it, I am going to correct ya Bill, you don't have to have one unless you go with a kit that was not made for an EB. You can put hydro-boost or vacuum under the hood with a stock height vehicle.

I won't argue MY personal experience against yours, Lord knows nothing good ever comes from doing *that*. However, while I myself have only had one 66-77 and I pancaked it before doing much of anything with it, I've helped build 4 others and two of those had engine swaps. The 351 did in fact fit the brake booster, I'll grant you that. The only problem was that in order to change a valve cover gasket or remove the valve cover for ANY reason at all the booster had to come off the firewall, makes for a long staurday afternoon when you only want to fix a blown gasket. We had to "clearance" the valve cover a bit with a ball-peen at that just to make it fit. The 460 swap was completely hopeless as far as being able to mount anything at all on the firewall. I know good & well that I'm not the first guy to post the same complaint either. But hey, if *your* 351 fits in there with ample space for everything then more power to ya. Not having enough space under the hood was one of the reasons I switched back to the big Broncos, that and the disturbing way that the early Bronco's crush down when you flip one.

 

[S_bolt19]

For someone not wanting to argue about things, that is a helluva way to start a fight.....

 

[Broncobill78]

For someone not wanting to argue about things, that is a helluva way to start a fight.....

Well I guess that's just my way. Pehaps I express my opinions more forcefully than I should and if I've offended you than you honestly have my sincere apology. Fact of the matter is that I find it hard to dispute what I've seen & done but I can allow for the fact that other people have different opinions based upon different experiences. Bull$hit aside, if *your* swap worked with no firewall clearance problems then great but the fact of the matter is that the two swaps I worked on both had clearance issues and I spent too much time working around them to say it didn't happen. It is what it is. You've done your thing and I've done mine and apparently we see things differently. That's OK in my book as long as everyone is polite & respectful about it. If I overstepped the boundries or you feel I was impolite then once again I offer an apology.

 

[alexr88]

Thank you guys for your opininons. I got the feeling that if a enginge/transmision swap was in mind, a 1 or 2 inch suspension is necessary in order to clear the metal. Due to my budget there wont be any swaps. I will keep my 3 speed and the 302 for now. I think I should sell my 37 inch tires and adquire smaller tires.

I just finish cutting the front and rear fenters to install "Bushwacker fender flares". If I keep everything stock with the eception of the fenders, what are the tallest tires I can install? Can 33 inch tires be a good option?

Alex R.

 

[alexr88]

Well it kinda depends on a few things. A suspension lift all by itself will give you the clearence to run the tires *and* has the advantage of giving you additional suspension travel. The larger the lift the more travel you'll have, so if you do the whole thing with a suspension lift you'll maximize the additional travel you'll get out of the deal. On the other hand if you have plans to swap out the engine then you may want to consider using a body lift as well. The 351 is a wider & taller engine and you'll start running out of space on the firewall real quick once you put one in. A body lift can give you the space you'll need for things like a vacuum booster & master cylinder. Body lifts can be a hassle to install because of all the bracketry & linkage mods that have to be made. The fuel filler neck, fan shroud, gas, brake & shift linkages, bumpers & brake lines all need to be modified, and that's just the *start* of it. Generally speaking, you put in a suspension lift and you're done. With a body lift you've got weeks of screwing around with details not to mention now you've got that big goofy looking space between the body & frame that just screams "BODY LIFT". I'd do the whole thing with suspension unless there was a compelling reason to move the body up. There are plenty of good 300-350hp 302's out there and that's more than most folks really need anyways.

Bill thanks for the info. I think I will safe myself some headache and run smaller tires for now. I am concerned that if 33/34 inch tires are rubbing, then 37 will defenetely rub even at 1/2 flex. Do you have some pictures of your bronco?

Thanks Alex

 

[S_bolt19]

Well I guess that's just my way. Pehaps I express my opinions more forcefully than I should and if I've offended you than you honestly have my sincere apology. Fact of the matter is that I find it hard to dispute what I've seen & done but I can allow for the fact that other people have different opinions based upon different experiences. Bull$hit aside, if *your* swap worked with no firewall clearance problems then great but the fact of the matter is that the two swaps I worked on both had clearance issues and I spent too much time working around them to say it didn't happen. It is what it is. You've done your thing and I've done mine and apparently we see things differently. That's OK in my book as long as everyone is polite & respectful about it. If I overstepped the boundries or you feel I was impolite then once again I offer an apology.

Bill, I'm not offended, but I will say this, I have built or had a hand in building over 15 EBs and not a single one of them needed a body lift with a stock engine on the brake upgrades. Hydroboost or vacuum assisted. ****, VA brakes came as an option on some of the years so why would you have to have a BL with it? Now, with a 351, which you brought into the picture, you are right, there will be clearance issues, but with a 289/302, there is absolutely none, with a carbeurator or with EFI. Here is a picture of my hydroboost setup on mine, right now. EFI with no body lift.

http://broncozone.com/forums/index.php?act...ost&id=4411

Alex, a set of 33s in full articulation look like this:

http://broncozone.com/forums/index.php?act...ost&id=5360 - stuffed in the wheel well

http://broncozone.com/forums/index.php?act...ost&id=5359 - flexed out

I actually had my shocks stop me from going any further, either up inside my wheel well or dropping, in these pictures. I disconnected them and got the tire to touch the bottom of the wheel well and got an extra couple of inches of drop on the other side. You can run 35s or 37s comfortably if you want to, just change the offset of your rim and trim a little more metal off the inner fenders & fender apron up front. But you will also want a 1-2" body lift to make things work out right.

Just remember this, when you do a suspension lift, it lifts everything attached to the frame (i.e. engine, tranny, body, everything) and when you do a body lift, it only lifts the body. A body lift is typically necessary if you are going with a bigger engine, height issues, but a suspension lift won't help you in that department.

Hope that helps you some Alex

 

[fbnwest]

Not to play referee between Bill and S-bolt but as I read this thread I saw that the two of you seemed to be talking about different things engine wise from the get go. Bill was talking an engine swap to a bigger engine (which seems to be why most people go for a body lift) and that you would then need a body lift to accommodate the brakes, and S-bolt was saying if you just wanted to upgrade your brakes you didn't need to do a body lift.

Glad you worked it out though.

 

[Crude dude]

There are a lot of other variables in the "should i run 37s" question. Is this a trail rig or a show boat? What gears and transmission are you running? Are you willing to trim some fender or install Gorilla warflares? These tires may hit your radius arms but that also depends on the offset of the rim and if you are using the stock radius arms or not. Some aftermarket arms will clear tires this size but expect to pay $$, and last and most important, do you have power steering AND disc brakes? Armstrong steering is a no no with 37s and drum brakes will get you killed.

 

[Broncobill78]

Bill, I'm not offended, but I will say this, I have built or had a hand in building over 15 EBs and not a single one of them needed a body lift with a stock engine on the brake upgrades. Hydroboost or vacuum assisted. ****, VA brakes came as an option on some of the years so why would you have to have a BL with it? Now, with a 351, which you brought into the picture, you are right, there will be clearance issues, but with a 289/302, there is absolutely none, with a carbeurator or with EFI. Here is a picture of my hydroboost setup on mine, right now. EFI with no body lift.http://broncozone.com/forums/index.php?act...ost&id=4411

Alex, a set of 33s in full articulation look like this:

http://broncozone.com/forums/index.php?act...ost&id=5360 - stuffed in the wheel well

http://broncozone.com/forums/index.php?act...ost&id=5359 - flexed out

I actually had my shocks stop me from going any further, either up inside my wheel well or dropping, in these pictures. I disconnected them and got the tire to touch the bottom of the wheel well and got an extra couple of inches of drop on the other side. You can run 35s or 37s comfortably if you want to, just change the offset of your rim and trim a little more metal off the inner fenders & fender apron up front. But you will also want a 1-2" body lift to make things work out right.

Just remember this, when you do a suspension lift, it lifts everything attached to the frame (i.e. engine, tranny, body, everything) and when you do a body lift, it only lifts the body. A body lift is typically necessary if you are going with a bigger engine, height issues, but a suspension lift won't help you in that department.

Hope that helps you some Alex

Let me start by saying I'm glad you don't feel offended because I think we misunderstood each other from the start as FnbWest surmised. I'll admit up front you've got more time with the EB's than I do, most of mine is with the Big Bronco's but quite honestly I think that after your 3 or 4th frame-off the numbers really don't mean an awful lot. At any rate, my comments about clearance & body lifts were referring to the 351 & 460 swaps I've done. You're *absolutely* right to state that the stock 302's should have no clearance issues at all & even more so for the poor guys running 240's & 300's. The 460 swap we did was a complete nightmare and I don't think anyone who was involved with it will ever get involved with another one again. The 351 was difficult and considering what you can get in a nice crate 302 these days I think it would be foolish to install a 5.8, but this was quite a few years back and what the **** do you know when you're 20 ?

I'll also grant that when we swapped the power brakes into the 67' it was really a shotgun approach, we had a friend who owned a small junkyard & didn't mind if we threw him $100 and drove out with a bed full of parts. It was one of those "Hey there's a truck with a vacuum booster, let's grab it" sort of swap and we weren't paying a lot of attention to what the *best* parts for our purpose were, as long as they came off an F-truck we figured everything was cool. Everything worked when we were done, but it was a bitch to make it all fit and most of our "adjustments" were done with a torch & a maul.

If I had either swap to do over again today I'd just drop in a nice 350hp 302 crate engine and be done with it, but that wasn't an option back then and even if it HAD been I doubt we would have had the experience to realize it was the smart thing to do. The 460 swap was just plain stupid, we would have been just as well off to put that damn thing into a Pinto for all the headaches it caused. It was so nose-heavy when we finished that always buried itself every mudhole we ran, to the point that a Dana44 front & 60 rear were swapped in and *that* made it even heavier still !!! We just REFUSED to learn. I'll admit right now we should have just built a 302 and left the rest of it well enough alone, but hey, that's how you learn what NOT to do and why you DON'T want to do it and better still if you can learn those lessons on someone ELSE'S truck.

At any rate. I once again offer my sincere apologys for overstepping any boundries. It was never my *intent* to insult you or anyone else but I sometimes have a way of coming off like that. I think the entire purpose of sites like this is to promote information sharing & goodwill and beyond that it's to teach the new guys & help bring along the next generation of Bronco builders. Arguements & bull$hit don't accomplish that so please let me express my apologies & take responsibility for my part in whatever misunderstanding occured.

If I can answer questions and help keep someone interested and THAT means keeping another freaking Honda with 5" exhaust off the streets then I think it's time well spent.

Dave

 

[Broncobill78]

Thank you guys for your opininons. I got the feeling that if a enginge/transmision swap was in mind, a 1 or 2 inch suspension is necessary in order to clear the metal. Due to my budget there wont be any swaps. I will keep my 3 speed and the 302 for now. I think I should sell my 37 inch tires and adquire smaller tires. I just finish cutting the front and rear fenters to install "Bushwacker fender flares". If I keep everything stock with the eception of the fenders, what are the tallest tires I can install? Can 33 inch tires be a good option?

Alex R.

Alex,

To get back to the actual questions you needed answers to <grin>. 3-speed, 302 is fine for now, and hey, it's not everyone who can drive a 3-on-the-tree. As far as tire choices go, well it's still up in the air and I'd have to say a lot of what you run *now* will be determined by what you want or need to do later. I can't see from this screen where you're at but if the tub is rusted and you're going to be looking at fender & quarter-panel swaps or repairs in the future anyways then sure, you have nothing to lose by hacking them out and installing a set of large 4" bushwacker cutout flares. With those you can *definately* run 33's and probably 35's with stock suspension. Add a 4" lift and you could run your 37's if you're willing to cut out enough sheetmetal, but understand that you're talking about removing a LOT of metal to run 37's. With such a short truck I'd be happy with 36's myself but then again I don't like to run anything larger than a 40" on the FULL-size Bronco's, but that's just me and plenty of guys run bigger sneakers.

If you have good fenders & quarters you'd be a fool to hack them up just to create more work for yourself and you should probably look to something in the 31" or 32" range and go for the 10.5's instead of the 12.5". If you'll be needing to replace those fenders & quarters *anyways* then go for it or maybe just go for it withing the limits of what can be repaired with a patch panel. If you're going to need patch panels ANYWAYS then sure, hack them out, run your tires and have some fun. What the **** good is having the truck if it's not any fun?

 

[TX '73]

Hey Alex, if you're still reading this thread I'll throw in my 2 cents.

If you've already cut you fenders and installed flares, and you're running 33x12.50's - I would encourage you to install a 3.5in suspension lift. I think this is the best way to go if you're not married to the 37s and would look better than cutting fenders w/ no lift. I wish I had the pics of mine to post so you can see it but there are plenty of other pics on the net that show the results. Additionally, the sus lift is farely simple to install and you don't need to mess w/ body lifts. If you would rather run 35 in tires, install a 5.5in suspension lift.

Good luck.

 

[bigbluebronc]

For someone not wanting to argue about things, that is a helluva way to start a fight.....

I am ready for some fun I say, 4 inch lift and a sawsall or plasma cutter, you can always weld it back on! haha

 

[rodsteal]

WOW, this thread took a crazy turn. Back to the matter at hand. Every truck I have ever owned has had a lift of some type. From a Toyota p-up to my current SuperDuty with a 6 inch and 37's. Naturally my EB has a 3.5 lift in the front and 2" in the rear, one that I put together because I didn't like the way "store bought" lifts made the truck "stink bug" in the rear.

To be quite honest, I know you love the thought of scoring 37's for $100 per tire, but are you going to get the same deal in the future and is it worth spending a few grand on a suspension lift, body lift, maybe new brakes and longer drive shafts, new steering, etc..., what ever other problems come from all this just because you saved a few buck on some tires that you might not want to replace when they wear out. 37's are great on the rocks and dirt but they **** a$$ on the road, especially under a short framed EB that is already "tipsy" enough stock. You add a suspension lift, body lift and 37's and you will "bicycle" every turn you take over 20mph.

If I were you, (and I'm not) I would put them on Craigslist or e-bay and take that money and put it into a 3.5 lift, change your body mounts to polyurethane, but leave them stock height, and stuff 33's under there. You might be surprised what you can do and where you can go. That way, you save a ton of green, you can afford to replace the tires in a few years and if you lock up the front end going down a hill you wont go a$$ over tea kettle down to the bottom. That is my 2 cents, obviously do what you wont. There are a ton of options here, you need to decide your end game and what look and functionality you are going for. If it just sits in the garage and goes to church on Sunday, go nuts and put in in the clouds. If you really want to have fun with it, think about if what your doing will limit your amount of fun.