Vintage Air AC and 302 motor

New to the site and in need of some help:

Have a few of questions. Anyone have an opinion of Vintage air AC systems? I have just acquired my dad's 69 bronco with 302 that has only 58k miles on it. I has been driven very little the last few years. It has a Cool Queen 690 AC unit that mounts under the dash. The last time I remember that AC unit running was in the 70's. I remember dad trying to find the leak without success years ago. After taking the old AC apart and cleaning the 1970's dirt dobber nests out of it, it wont hold a vacuum. The condensor looks rough and the evaporator looks great. Mechanic said there is blockage more than likely due to the expansion valve. I realize that when you open the system for repair it is recommended to replace expansion valve and drier. Knowing how old this system is I will not be able to begin to find the leak until after I replace the drier and expansion valve. This thing could $100 me to death till I find a leak or leaks on an 35+yr old AC unit.

Second question: The old holes from heater core and old AC, what would you suggest to plug those holes? The AC holes are on the right side of **** toward the front just below the dash. I would like to keep as close to original as possible but still have holes sealed.

Third question: Motor has 58k and used primarily as hunting vehicle since the 80's. Last few years it has averaged about 10 to 20 miles per year put on it. It looks to be burning oil (blue smoke on the start). I would like to use this vehicle as a daily driver. Would it be worth switching synthetic oil for the type/age of motor? Oil treatments?

Thanks - any info would be apprreciated

Welcome...I think you will find all your answers here.

On the AC, you DO NOT have to change the drier and expansion valve just to find the leak. A good AC shop can add some freon with a dye, and look for the leak. When they find it they evac the freon back out. You or they do the repair, then replace the drier and expansion valve, and evac & recharge.

Something to remember: If the only problem with the system is a leak, the compressor is good and hasn't seized or failed, you do not have to replace an expansion valve. If the system has an oriface tube it is cheep and yes you should replace it. An accumulator or drier must always be replaced when opening a system.

Have you seen any part that has oil residue, or dirt attracted by oil? If so that is most likely where the leak is. Freon carries oil. Oil on the outside of the system =leak.

Here's what may be The biggest problem: Your system is probably R12. That does not mix well with R134, and is no longer available. If that is the case you have to convert to R134. But all is not lost! If you are mechanically inclined, You can do the conversion and know that the components are good. Kits for converting are available at many parts stores. Flush the system yourself. DO NOT flush the compressor or drier. Disconnect all lines and flush them. flush the condensor, flush the evaporator. At this point if you have the resources, or know someone who does, you can rig a method to seal one end of each line or component and apply vacuum to the other end. This should tell you what is leaking.

Reassamble eveything with new oiled "O" rings, and add Ester oil. Drain the compressor in to a container, turning the hub 6 to 8 times, and measure the oil. Add that amount back into the low and high side ports. Cover the ports, turn the compressor hub a few turns and let it sit for at least an hour. Add 1oz of oil to the evap, 1 oz. to the condensor, 3/4 oz to any long lines and 3 to 5 oz to the new drier.

Install the new R134 line fittings High and low side.

If you still don't know what is leaking and the system is back together, you now can have it preasurized with R134. If then the fix is a quick component replacement you can swap a condensor or line and keep the same drier if the system is not opened for too long.

Now on the oil....DO NOT use synthetic oil in a motor that old. Small leaks become big leaks with synthetic. Even Mercedes does not recommend it in any of their cars that did not have synthetic in to start with.

The smoke on startup indicates the valve seals are worn.

The holes..... easiest way is to cover with a metal piece on both sides with a rivet in the midle and sealed with body sealer.

Sounds like alot of work, but for a 69 it's worth it

Welcome 69bronco,

Great A/C coverage Ron..,

One other thing for consideration would be the shape, style, mods, etc. on this rig.

69bronco69 if you would, fill in your profile/signature pages so we will know what we're dealing with here. (& where you are) For example., most of these EB's have a 1 sq. ft. hole in them "overall"...even with the doors closed. :glare:

Try Castrol 10w-40 "Synthetic Blend"...made a big diff. in mine.

Only additive I would use instead of the Castrol is "Marvil Mystery Oil"

BUT.., changing valve seals as Ron mentioned is cheap & easy...1 banana job. /

Just need an air compressor, a spark plug hole adaptor, & a spring compressor.

Another method for plugging firewall (& other) holes is in the hardware section. (don't know where you are) They have dozens of sizes of plastic/rubber snap-in plugs.

I would suggest leaving one hole with a short piece of rubber hose in it (& plugged) This comes in handy for runn'n wires at a later date so as not to chaff the wires.

Let me back up and tell you what we did up to this point on the AC. The mechanic is the one my dad used for years with this vehicle. I asked if I could "help" him do this work on this job so I could learn to do this myself in the future. This is an after market AC unit. It is not the MARK IV unit commonly installed in the EB's from the dealers. It is a Cool Queen 690. I can't find any info on this unit anywhere. I last remember this unit working in the 70's. It currently has a York compressor for R12. It is in good working order. When we checked the oil level in the compressor, we found the old red dye was already in the system. It was about an inch low so we added oil that had UV dye with it to bring the oil level back up to 2 inch level. Then pulled a vacuum. Next we added some freeze 12. The pressure jumped high then bottomed out. This is where mechanic said there was blockage in the system - more than likely due to the expansion valve. This expansion valve is located at the unit installed below the dash inside the bronco. Are expansion valves/oriface tubes universal? As I said I cant find any literature on a "Cool Queen 690" unit anywhere. We did not notice any oil residue or oil sling pattern anywhere before, during, or after us working on unit. So I was looking at buying a $1000+ AC system or take my chances spending money on pieces of the system that may work out to be a cheap/easy fix or may be that last thing we tried. That could result in too much money. I do not have the tools to do that. I would have to pay someone else to go through each piece. Feel like I will be paying to piece together a 30+ year old system or buy a new unit.

I have just finished replacing the heater core and radiator myself. With the Vintage Air system, I will be removing and no longer needing the heater box. That was a new core and sealer kit. Not a ton of money, but time and money nonetheless.

Also I cant find a fan shroud that will fit the stock 302 due to the radiator be moved toward the fan - not enough clearance. It was moved toward the fan because the aftermarket AC called for the condensor to be installed behind the core support. The Vintage Air calls for same situation with their unit. I previously sent back the one I bought at Jeff's Graveyard because it would not fit (radiator too close to fan). The old radiator had only the top half of a fan shroud installed left. My guess they had similar situation when old AC unit was installed and rigged the shroud to fit. I would much rather have a complete shroud. Would the half shroud be efficient? The working temp of motor has be about 180 to 185 degrees with the shroud on or off.

I appreciate the comments/suggestions. It seems after reading these I have few more questions for the mechanic. I was just wanting an unbiased opinion that was not influenced by a parts and labor repair bill. I've been reading other post(s) to keep my questions down. Please be patient with the newbie. I'm sure I will have more questions. Thanks for all you help.

Decided to go with vintage air. Everything is installed but compressor and brackets. The brackets mount over the water pump and alternator. Seems to be a bit crowded on passenger side. I saw Vintage air has a bracket adapter to make sanden compressors fit York brackets(i have yet to remove mine). I am also concerned about removing original OEM bolts from the engine to use the new brackets. Has anyone used this adapter or have knowledge it will fit SD5H14 Sanden compressor?

thanks

After reading your complete history of the AC system, I agree your best bet was a new system.

Unfortunatly you're working on a 42 year old vehicle. There is gonna be a lot of guessing and modifying and fabricating especially on the little parts, like brackets and such.

I can't say that the ac brackets will or won't work. Your best bet is calling Vintage Air. They should be the best help for you on that.

I admire your tenacity in gathering info and working on this old Bronc.

Hope it all comes together. Continue to post pics for us.

Good Luck and Have FUN!

Rons beast said:

After reading your complete history of the AC system, I agree your best bet was a new system.

Unfortunatly you're working on a 42 year old vehicle. There is gonna be a lot of guessing and modifying and fabricating especially on the little parts, like brackets and such.

I can't say that the ac brackets will or won't work. Your best bet is calling Vintage Air. They should be the best help for you on that.

I admire your tenacity in gathering info and working on this old Bronc.

Hope it all comes together. Continue to post pics for us.

Good Luck and Have FUN!

Click to expand...

Talked to John at Vintage Air today. He was a big help. We are going to swap out brackets so to keep the new compressor on the driver side. The old york bracket had a tensioner pulley installed already. Figure it would be a safer bet messing with four bolts on a bracket, than a few 42 year old bolts than go in the engine. I've got a lot of fond memories of this bronco in my younger days. I hope to make some more.

You guys on this site are are very helpful. Maybe one day I'll be able to answer something instead just ask questions.

thanks - John

AC Update -

Got everything installed and still does not work properly. Took to get system charged. Pulled a vacuum for 45 minutes as per instructions, followed all the steps to charge the system. It calls for 1.8 pounds of freon. The compressor would not come on, so we momentarily bypassed switch to battery and compressor worked. Pulled vaccuum again and charged again. This time compressor worked from switch. At this time we figured the pressure was way to high the first time we charged for compressor to even kick on due to the binary safety switch. The pressure readings were real high on the second charge. High side was working at 300 and shutting off at 390; low side was 45 to 70 at idle. System is supposed to work at 160 to 250 high side and 6 to 12 on low side (as per the paperwork on system). It would cycle off every 7 - 9 seconds. Sounds like a restriction somewhere right? This is brand new, no kinks or bends more than 90 degrees. For the 7 - 9 seconds it works, it does work very well - cold, cold, cold.

Got a hold of Mark, a tech at Vintage Air and decided to pull vacuum and recharge system again. This time is was better at high side working at 200 to 360 and the low 40 to 65, but still to high. Called Mark again and he is sending a new expansion valve and dryer to see if that fixes the problem. I really dont want to mess with that evaporator again to put the expansion valve in. I'm begining to wonder if this was bad idea to get AC.

John

"Hang in there...!"

Don't get discouraged.., sounds like Vintage is going to stick with you 'til it's right.

To my knowledge., you're the first to do this.. & it will be interesting to many..."the end of this story" /

Bully Bob said:

"Hang in there...!"

Don't get discouraged.., sounds like Vintage is going to stick with you 'til it's right.

To my knowledge., you're the first to do this.. & it will be interesting to many..."the end of this story" /

Click to expand...

Mark and John at Vintage Air have been very good with customer service and trouble shooting my questions. They know their stuff. I was just hoping I would not be going under the dash again anytime soon. That was the toughest part for me with this project. I'll hang in there. Just thought I finally got it done, but... ( .

Thanks for the support

John

I'd like to bump this topic. Great read. I'm just curious if there is an easier kit out there since this was started? Upgrading my heat and adding AC to my 73 is on my to do list soon.

If this is an issue or needs to be a separate topic my apologizes.