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hms79

1985 Carb problems

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Hey all, pretty new to the site, but not ford's! Anyway, my 1985 Bronco with the 351 HO 4 barrel Holley is in need of a new carb. However, I don't want another Holley! This one was purchased last summer, July I believe, and is already acting up. The choke sticks, so if it isn't 50 degrees or warmer, she won't idle after kickdown. Plus, the choke sticks after you shut it off, to the point where you need a screwdriver to hold the damn choke open. This being the second Holley on this rig, plus the 3 other 351 HO's I have ever been around that each had at least 3 Holley's, I am fed up. Is the Edlebrock 1406 a direct swap? Is there another? And please, no Holley's. It is my opinion that they are junk, as I have not been around a good one yet.

 

hms79 :angry:

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Hey all, pretty new to the site, but not ford's! Anyway, my 1985 Bronco with the 351 HO 4 barrel Holley is in need of a new carb. However, I don't want another Holley! This one was purchased last summer, July I believe, and is already acting up. The choke sticks, so if it isn't 50 degrees or warmer, she won't idle after kickdown. Plus, the choke sticks after you shut it off, to the point where you need a screwdriver to hold the damn choke open. This being the second Holley on this rig, plus the 3 other 351 HO's I have ever been around that each had at least 3 Holley's, I am fed up. Is the Edlebrock 1406 a direct swap? Is there another? And please, no Holley's. It is my opinion that they are junk, as I have not been around a good one yet.

 

hms79 :angry:

20214[/snapback]

 

Yes the Edlebrock is a direct bolt on Carb.

 

What Holley are you using is it the stock 4bbl Holleyv that comes on the 351 HO?

 

IMOP Holley is a tuners Carb since the need tuning quite often if not they go down hill fast. The Edl is more user friendly to people who like to slap a carb on tune it once and be go to go.

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Yup, stock OEM Holley. It takes a lot of work to make the old hunk run. It is not the original, as I said I replaced it at the tune of $350. People tell me Edlebrock is a lot more user friendly, but I also hear good about Carter and Rochester. I have also been told to get a new intake manifold and go 2 barrel, but I am not sure.

hms79

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HMS79, sounds like you're having similar problems that I did when I first bought my 84 Bronco. I agree that the original Holley 4160 is junk, it is 20 years old after all. Mine was leaking gas on top of the intake manifold, and the accelerator pump was shot. If you bought a remanufactured unit as I did, and you are having problems with the electric choke, first be sure that the electric choke is getting power from the alternator. Second, make sure the linkage is not binding or getting stuck. I used to carry around a tree limb, and break off a small piece to jam the choke open whenever I had a problem. I finally traced down the power source porblem, and the carb is running fine now.

 

If you decide you want the Edelbrock 1406, it will bolt right up to your stock intake. BUT if you have an auto tranny, you'll need to get the adapter bracket for the kickdown rod. I have a EDL 1405 (manual choke) on another truck and it ran fine for many years. A bad tankfull of watery gas has really caused problems with it lately, like rough idle and stalling. I keep taking it apart and cleaning out all of the gunk. I even dropped the tank and vacuumed out the water.

 

Point being, it's not always the carb at fault, but perhaps an electrical or vacuum problem.

 

I also replaced my intake manifold with an EDL Performer series that is a direct bolt on in place of the stock 4BBl manifold. It only has 1 vacuum port, so I don't run cruise control, but I cleared up about half of all of the vacuum lines in front of the carb. I think that was a much better improvement in power. The Bronco will glue you to the seat off the line.

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I agree with jsm84, he gave good tips. If all else is good and the carb is bad, the Edl. or Roch. are good choices for daily drivers as well as off-road.

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Thanks for the tips. The electric choke gets power, and works when it feels like it. Edlebrock seems to be the choice I will make, if I don't trade for a EFI model.

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I think the Edelbrock 1400 series carbs, or even the Holley 600cfm units, are fine for daily driving. IF you want to do some serious offroad trails, keep in mind that most carbs do not like inclines/steep hills. The Edelbrock has a few different kits that will help some, but the Holley Truck Avenger is prolly better for that type of terrain. Some folks swear by the Carter or AFB carbs, and I've even seen a Demon carb or two on a Bronco run like a top. I would try to stay around 600-650cfm on whatever carb you get for a mostly stock motor.

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Well, this morning tells the story. Go out to drive, let it warm up, kick it down, and it won't idle. Get in my Ranger and go where I need to (to look at an over priced Bronco) come home this afternoon, runs like a top. :mad:

I tell you, it makes me want to cuss!

Can anyone tell me if the 5.8 HO motor will even run w/ a 2bbl?

Edited by hms79

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Can anyone tell me if the 5.8 HO motor will even run w/ a 2bbl?

20318[/snapback]

 

 

To answer your question, yes. The 5.8 HO may have a 4bbl mounted on it, but it only uses 2 bbls most of the time. The secondaries shouldn't be comming in untill enough demand for additional airflow is put on the carb to open the secondaries.

 

From reading back in the thread I see your frustration. However, Holley is not junk as you think. They do require understanding how a carb works and what effects different performance factors. If someone doesn't want to learn carboration, then it is not the carb for them. I have a 351 with a new Holley 4160 on it and it runs like a champ. However, it took a bit of work to get it there and not all was carborator adjustment.

 

I assume that your truck has a stock 4180 on it, original or rebuilt, ( it is almost impossible to find a new 4180). The difference between the 4180 and 4160 is that the 4160 does not have the bowl vents and the idle speed adjustment is in a different location. Even a rebuilt 4180 probably won't run properly because the rebuilding process doesn't touch a critical area, that causes vacuum leaks and with vacuum leaks you will never get it to run correctly.

 

So number 1 throw that carb in the junk pile. No matter what carb you put in it's place, you need to make sure some other engine functions are working properly.

I am going to propose that you have more problems than a carb. Cold idle, especially in cold weather, is dependent on some other functions working correctly.

 

1. The Heat control Valves

2. The intke air heat control

 

Also, If this is the original equipment, I'd suggest that the EGR valve is all carboned up and stuck in one position or the other. More than likely, you have vacuum leaks around the base of the carb which can becaused by the errosion of the surface that the carb is mounted on by the EGR gasses. The Heat Control Valves are probably stuck or the control vane is burned off completely or the control to them is not functioning.

 

So how's that for gloomy picture. :((

 

Basically the reason for mentioning all that is to make the point that for a, "start and run engine", in all weather conditions requires that all the control functions work correctly as well as the carb. I took my 351 from an engine that had to be babysat from start untill it warmed up completly, (even in summer), to an engine that will Start, Run, and Move the truck down the road when the engine is still below freezing, (I don't recommend putting an engine under such stress, but it can do it). It took more than a carb change, that was a big help, but the control functions also needed to be functioning properly.

 

So if changing the carb alone does the trick GREAT, but don't be surprised if it still needs something. Mine needed much more than a new carb, almost none of the vacuum controlled functions were working, some wern't even there :( . The carb requires knowing how to adjust it, but that HOLLEY SHI%TS and GETS and it runs properly from subfreezing weather to blazing hot summer days.

 

The point being, a Holley is probbly one of the best and infinately tunable carbs going, but you need to know how to tune them.

 

Welp, that's my story, and I'm sticking to it :D Hope I didn't bore ya :blush:

 

A few shots of the engine including my summer configurtion that I call the poor mans KN filter.

 

Good luck on yours, you may have a learning experience ahead of you :D/

 

:)>-

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post-889-1112493448_thumb.jpg

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P.S.

 

On the 2bbl question, that was a conditional yes. However, you couldn't get full performance out of it on 2bbls since it wouldn't be able to get enough fuel air mixture at the high end. I didn't intend that putting a 2 bbl on it would be an option. However the engine can be made to run just like it came out of the factory or better and still have a Holley carb on it.

 

:)>-

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Thanks for th info. This wasn't my vehicle from the start. When I bought it, we spent considerable time fixing vacum leaks, even one hose the previous owner had plugged with a spark plug. The original carb leaked fuel from everywhere, so I purchased a remanufactured one from Autozone, a $300 carb. After some adjusting and a tune up, it ran like a champ. It didn't get really bad until I needed it after a 20 inch snow before Christmas. If i unhooked the choke after it warmed up, I could drive it, with no problem. However, we all know how hard it was to start cold with no choke. I haven't drove it much since. Some days, regardless of the temp outside, it operates fine, others, it just won't idle. Of course, if I get it out on the road and drive it, after about 10 minutes, it runs, but after I shut it down, the choke will stick. My dad told me today about the heat control valve being bad, but I try not to bother him with it, even though he knows more than me.

 

I just don't have the time for a BIG repair, that is why I am looking for a EFI model, but not a 1990 that needs $1000 worth of work where I am asked $4300!

 

I may try the carb first and then all the rest. Thanks for all the tips, anybody else, feel free to give me some more!

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HMS79, I think I know what you mean about the carb. Mine will have an occaisional "stalling fit" on really cold days (few and far between this far South) where even after warm-up it will die. I believe it is the float sticking, as a good bump in the road will often clear things up.

 

Seabronc makes some great points about the other systems connected to the carb. I spent alot of time tracing those down one at a time. There is a ported vacuum fitting right in front of the carb, where several vacuum lines connect to. The air cleaner base is nearly touching it, and being plastic it can easily break. On my motor, it looked O.K., but was actually cracked in half. You have two really critical vacuum lines coming from this fitting to the carb. There's also another vacuum fitting behind the carb. It can be a real chore tracing each vacuum line. I often refer to it as a "spaghetti bowl"!!!

 

I spent a few months getting the carb to run right most of the time, and replaced several items including the heat riser valve. Many of the emissions parts were no longer functioning, and are also no longer offered by Ford or anyone. It can take some research and a good parts person to help find a newer substitute that will work.

 

I would recommend returning the Holley Bomb if you still have warranty on it, and get the Edelbrock. It should be easier to adjust and not as "finicky" as the Holley.

 

If you don't have the time or patience to track down each little problem with the 84 V8, then a newer EFI motor may be better for you. You can usually diagnose a problem according to the computer trouble code rather than guessing.

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Right HMS79, if I didn't get so much pleasure babying my truck, I would probably go EFI for the more efficient computer control. If you are thinking of converting to EFI, here is a good place to check out.

 

http://www.ronmorrisperformance.com/index.html

 

 

Good luck,

 

:)>-

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Hey all, pretty new to the site, but not ford's! Anyway, my 1985 Bronco with the 351 HO 4 barrel Holley is in need of a new carb. However, I don't want another Holley! This one was purchased last summer, July I believe, and is already acting up. The choke sticks, so if it isn't 50 degrees or warmer, she won't idle after kickdown. Plus, the choke sticks after you shut it off, to the point where you need a screwdriver to hold the damn choke open. This being the second Holley on this rig, plus the 3 other 351 HO's I have ever been around that each had at least 3 Holley's, I am fed up. Is the Edlebrock 1406 a direct swap? Is there another? And please, no Holley's. It is my opinion that they are junk, as I have not been around a good one yet.

 

hms79 :angry:

 

Hey. I just ran into the same exact problem you have with my friends' Nova. He has a Holley Street Avenger carb and the choke is a piece of crap. It has a red lever and it gets stuck against something else. He is really upset too and I don't blame either one of you. I had been racing for 5 years and sell "tuned" Holley carbs on the side and I can tell you that if you buy a cheapo job like that, you will get problems. Holley carbs can be a super carb if they are built right and 90% of the guys at the dragstrip run Holleys and by the way DEMON carbs can be BIG trouble too. You see.....You can't get top performance out of a "out of the box" 'el cheapo' Holley carb or an Edelbrock for that matter although the Edelbrocks are better than this one. They make them as cheap as possible just to get them sold. It's all about profit. Having said that,,, I can recommend a fine Hooley carb that will set you back about $475 or possibly even less and you will be tickled to death by it because the circuits are tuned, boosters are spun-in to do away with discharge related leaks, main body surfaces at the metering blocks are machined perfectly flat and the choke tower is machined away to promote better flow and a couple other minor mods. I also have one with only a few runs on it that I kept as a back up for less than that price if you can use it that is. You see a well tuned carb doesn't even need a choke. I can start my 450 HP small block Ford engine in 40 degree weather and it will run as slow as 400 rpms. Remember it doesn't have a choke! Now that is a well tuned carburetor! Before I recommend a carb size, I need to know if your engine and rear end are stock or not and what tranny you got. Tell me how you use the truck and go from there. You can email me if you like at [email protected] Don't give up on all Holleys man. Their design is a good one. They just need to be tweaked first in most cases. BEWARE of carb shops that want to charge you $900 for a special carb. All you need is a carb that has had the basic tweaks done on it by a well established builder that will work for a reasonable profit. I am a dealer for such a builder. I toured the shop where they build 'em and they do them 2 at a time not 1000 a time like Holley. RC

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Why don't you go with an older computer controled MPFI 351 out of a late(er) model? One that the computer only controles the motor and throw that bad boy in? Also, I have to agree, I'm more of an Edlebrock fan myself. Just hate trying to spell it because the L and E get me mixed up for some reason? Anyways, that's my two cents..

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Everyone has thier two cents and mine is this, Jegs sells an intake and carb kit for your truck that will definitely give you reliability and better performance without gas mileage loss, like 1-2 mpg, big deal, youll be happier and will have a more reliable truck to boot, and hey, all for about 500 bucks gaskits and all, you cant go wrong, I did this on my 1985 F350(460 but had the same crappy holley as yours) and now my truck will start at six in the morning after pumping the gas twice and hittin the key. That and Smoke my tires, and this truck has 40's!, take it or leave it but you'll me much happier.

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oh yeah its an edelbrock performer intake and 1406 carb, you'll still pass smog :)>-

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If you do go with the edel. or the carter be sure to get a carter stripe kit , i find that it has better ussage than the edel. stripe kit, it comes with spring laoded needles and seat to help keep the floats from bouncing and flooding the carb.

good luck to you ...

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Guest Murdoc 201
On 3/31/2005 at 1:56 PM, hms79 said:

Hey all, pretty new to the site, but not ford's! Anyway, my 1985 Bronco with the 351 HO 4 barrel Holley is in need of a new carb. However, I don't want another Holley! This one was purchased last summer, July I believe, and is already acting up. The choke sticks, so if it isn't 50 degrees or warmer, she won't idle after kickdown. Plus, the choke sticks after you shut it off, to the point where you need a screwdriver to hold the damn choke open. This being the second Holley on this rig, plus the 3 other 351 HO's I have ever been around that each had at least 3 Holley's, I am fed up. Is the Edlebrock 1406 a direct swap? Is there another? And please, no Holley's. It is my opinion that they are junk, as I have not been around a good one yet.

 

hms79 :angry:

 

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Guest Murdoc 201

I'm right there with you! Got a 4 B Holley that came with the Bronco.  Have always had issues with the electric choke.  It ran great after a rebuild, has for 2 years, but after taking it to a mech for $150.00. Got it back with more issues.  Now I may be getting 2 mpg, and it won't idle.  They told me to pop the top and clean the back jet. Worked good for  a couple weeks, but now it's back to one foot on the gas, one foot on the break. They told me dirt got into it, but before they touched it, there was never an issue with dirt or crude . The fuel filter has always done its job.

 Now I'm considering ANY THING but a Holley.

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Yo Murdoc,

Welcome!

Most have moved to Edelbrock 1406

HwyApostle (Jerry) has an 86 351 and installed the 1406; see his installed pics and comment "Edelbrock 1406 Installed and running great"   @ https://www.supermotors.net/clubs/superford/registry/3045/11793-2

See Rebuilding & Tuning Edelbrock 1406 Carburetor - Hot Rod Network @  https://www.hotrod.com/articles/rebuilding-tuning-edelbrock-carburetor/

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