Uh Oh.... Transmission Trouble E4OD

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Skitter302

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I think I have been fighting this issue the whole time but I keep adding and changing parts on the Bronco so often that its hard to tell what is what.

When I'm in 3rd and watch the RPMs drop when the torque converter engages, the Bronco starts pulsing. This issue is most noticeable in 3rd and 4th when using lite to medium throttle. If I'm accelerating above 3000rpm I don't feel this pulsing. Kinda feels like a miss fire. Or like a bad injector. Also noticing the Bronco won't hold much of an engine load with the Torque converter engaged.

I have had transmission overheating issues in the past. What do ya'll think?

 
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miesk5

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Yo Skitter,

Is Transmission Control Indicator Lamp flashing while driving? If the transmission control indicator light is flashing on and off repeatedly, the transmission system is malfunctioning. The transmission will operate in a failure management mode with harsh engagements, firm shift feel, and abnormal shift schedule. 

is CEL On while driving?  Do a code test anyway. See 





Torque Converter Operation Test : If the shudder occurs a) during the 3-4 or 4-3 shift at HEAVY throttle, or B) at 40mph in 2, OD OFF, and OD, or c) at the same RPM in every gear, or d) coasting, cruising, or in R, or e) during extended light braking, then it is NOT TC clutch shudder; The following is a list of common vehicle concerns that have been misdiagnosed as torque converter clutch shudder. For diagnosis of the following items, refer to the appropriate sections of the workshop manual and the Powertrain Control/Emissions Diagnosis manual (PCED). Spark plugs - check for cracks, high resistance or broken insulators. Plug wires. Fuel injector - filter may be plugged. Fuel contamination - engine runs poorly. EGR valve - valve may let in too much exhaust gas and cause engine to run lean. Vacuum leak - engine will not get correct air/fuel mixture. MAP sensor - improper air/fuel mixture. HO2S sensor - too rich/lean air/fuel mixture. Fuel pressure - may be too low. Engine mounts -loose/damaged mounts can cause vibration concerns. Axle joints - check for vibration..."



Misfire PERPETRATORS:

Are plug wire routed as shown on decal atop radiator support?

Spark Plug Wire Routing & Firing Order TSB 94-04-10 for 87-93 5.0 & 94-96 5.0 & all 5.8 - engine miss, spark knock, buck/***** surge and other driveability concerns;

MIESK5 NOTE; The firing order for 1994 5.0Ls & all 5.8Ls is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8.

Distributor rotation: Counterclockwise

On these vehicles the #1 and #3, or #5 and #6 spark plug wires must be separated to eliminate the possibility of an induction crossfire. To eliminate the possibility of the coil wire becoming disconnected, route the coil wire under the spark plug wires at the distributor cap. Source: by Ford

http://www.supermotors.net/clubs/superford/registry/5180/32495 by tank92



Could be due to a problem with the EGR system (other than the valve itself) causing the engine to misfire under load. Suspect vacuum leak or faukty EVR, EVP or stuck EGR valve.

¿

Vacuum leak, see my leak diagnosis link in post #11 



Air filter, is it relatively clean?Air inlet atop radiator support to filter box and to throttle body; look for obstruction; damaged or opening in tubing after the filter box.Fuel quality; Oxidized fuel often turns darker over time and may even smell sour. You can check stored gasoline by pouring some into a clear glass container and comparing it side-by-side with known fresh gasoline. If your old sample looks noticeably darker than the fresh gas, you have strong evidence the gas has gone bad.

Al

 

miesk5

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Yo,

Part 2:

If EGR valve is stuck open, it will essentially cause a vacuum leak, leading to inefficient combustion, rough idling, hesitation & sometimes stalling. @jowens1126 has an easy test, "all you really need is a piece of vacuum tube. remove egr valve, attach vacuum line, **** on the open end, look at the bottom of the egr valve to make sure the pintle moves and hold vacuum on the line to make sure it doesnt leak down and close. thats pretty much all you need to do there. You can clean the insides up with brake kleen to get all the gunk out of it. It will make it move alot easier."A quick check to determine if this passage is open can be made as follows: With the engine idling, push the EGR valve diaphragm open (using a screwdriver if the engine is hot). A quick check to determine if this passage is open can be made as follows: With the engine idling,push the EGR valve diaphragm open (using a screwdriver if the engine is hot). A noticeable change in idle speed or engine stalling is an indication the EGR passage is open. Replacement of the EGR valve should be considered at this point. This same carbon accumulation can plug the valve's passages preventing proper operation.CAUTION: EGR valves can get very hot!.EGR Valve Test; "...these procedures are based around a typical OBD II Ford system but the overall principals should hold on most vehicle lines. Engine running, so be careful and use proper care! Find the EGR valve and disconnect the vacuum line going to the top of the valve. There should be no vacuum there at this time. If there is then check for proper EVR (EGR vacuum regulator) operation and vacuum line routing. Repair and continue testing. Hook up your hand vacuum pump to the EGR valve and slowly apply a vacuum. If the EGR valve is functioning then the engine should begin to run poorly and stumble. If you apply full vacuum and notice no RPM change or can’t pull a vacuum at all, then check for a faulty diaphragm in the valve or a restriction of the EGR tube, exhaust or intake manifold EGR ports. I have run across many concerns where the EGR passages in the intake manifolds become plugged with carbon and prevent EGR flow, so try to keep this in mind during testing. Repair and continue testing..."EGR Valve Position (EVP) Sensor Testing & Replacementby Seattle FSB @ EGR Valve Position (EVP) Sensor Testing & ReplacementEVR Testing, Ford; "....check the filter on the solenoid (Fig. 4, EVR filter shown). If this is clogged it will inhibit the venting of the solenoid; "...EVR Solenoids should be 20 to 70 ohms (100 to 135 ohms for 7.5L engines). A functional test can be performed on most applications by using a Scan Tool. Enter the Output State check and cycle the accelerator pedal. This will turn all the solenoids on and off. Using a DVOM monitor the voltage at the EGR solenoid(s). They should toggle from a high voltage to a low voltage. Typically this is stated in the manuals and scan tools as above 10.5 volts to below 2 volts. If the voltage does not toggle make sure that you have system voltage on the power side of the connector. If system voltage is present and the voltage does not cycle to the low side check the connector and wiring to the PCM. If the wiring and connector are okay the problem may be in the pin at the PCM or the driver in the computer itself..." READ MUCH MORE by Tomco @ http://www.tomco-inc.com/Tech_Tips/ttt32.pdf
 

 
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Skitter302

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  • No codes.
  • No Flashing O/D
  • O/D light doesn't blink when shifting.
I have checked the condition of my electrical connector on the pass side of the transmission and it looks fine. I remembered to look for those things first.  I never thought about the EGR valve. I can check that just to be sure. Everything I found on the internet last night points to the Torque converter.

I had a clicking noise come from the Bronco last night after going up a 7-8% grade for 10minutes. The clicking noise was soft at first but got louder while I was looking for it. I could hear it while in park. The Clicking noise would change with RPM. The Noise did go away when I got 5min back down the grade. I would say about 4th gear is went away.

update:

I did get the Bronco to drive better.

  • I sealed off the EGR from the intake using heavy duty silver tape. (Stuff makes a great gasket) No change.
  • Unplugged the EGR but kept the vac line attached. I now have better throttle response! Torque converter lockup requires going 45mph vs 35mph and the pulsing in 3rd has lighten'd up to the point that its barely noticeable.
  • Transmission still feels like it doesn't hold power very well in 4th. Still feels like the engine has a miss.
  • Now have Code 33
Bco drives better with code 33 then no code at all.

 
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Skitter302

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Items in unknown condition,

  • 8 fuel injectors
  • fuel press regulator
  • fuel pump
  • Coolant temp Sensor
  • Air Temp Sensor
I'm willing to replace the fuel injectors with new. I have a new/used adjustable fuel pressure regulator that could be install'd. Bronco pulls good and hard at WOT so I don't thnk fuel pump is an issue.

 

miesk5

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Yo,

DTC 33 is triggered when the EVP sensor is not closing;Testing & Operation; "...The EGR Valve Position (EVP) sensor monitors the position of the EGR valve pintle. The EVP sensor converts the mechanical movement of the pintle into an electrical voltage signal which is relayed to the PCM. The EVP sensor is a linear potentiometer in which resistance varies with the EGR valve pintle movement.Voltage is fed to the EVP by the signal return circuit. As the EGR is opened the EVP directs more voltage to the EEC and less down the voltage reference circuit. The EVP sensor provides the PCM with information on EGR flow and EGR system failures. The EVP should read between 0.24 and 0.67 volts at idle with a closed EGR valve..."EGR Valve Position (EVP) Sensor Testing & Replacement by Seattle FSB EGR Valve Test; "...these procedures are based around a typical OBD II Ford system but the overall principals should hold on most vehicle lines. Engine running, so be careful and use proper care! Find the EGR valve and disconnect the vacuum line going to the top of the valve. There should be no vacuum there at this time. If there is then check for proper EVR (EGR vacuum regulator) operation and vacuum line routing. Repair and continue testing. Hook up your hand vacuum pump to the EGR valve and slowly apply a vacuum. If the EGR valve is functioning then the engine should begin to run poorly and stumble. If you apply full vacuum and notice no RPM change or can’t pull a vacuum at all, then check for a faulty diaphragm in the valve or a restriction of the EGR tube, exhaust or intake manifold EGR ports. I have run across many concerns where the EGR passages in the intake manifolds become plugged with carbon and prevent EGR flow, so try to keep this in mind during testing. Repair and continue testing..."Damaged EVP sensor pull vac hose off @ EVP - I pull em off and use the straw sucking test; one finger over one end; and... ya get the idea?•Corroded or dirty connector•Damaged EGR valve•Faulty Vacuum system•Broken wire in harness•Grounded harness•Damaged ComputerTry my vac leak test @ Help with dtc codes and idlepost #11°
 

 
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Skitter302

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Tested engine vacuum, I have 18" at idle but it floats from 17.5 to 19. But when the needle floats so does the RPM.

I have a VERY LOUD clicking noise coming from fuel injector #5, when I unplug it my idle quality doesn't change. But if I unplug 6, 7,or 8 I idle quality will change.

Tested my fuel pressure reg. 36psi at idle with vacuum line attached. 41psi with vacuum line removed. I was noticing that the needle was bouncy with the fuel system at 41psi. Kinda like the fuel system was flowing more fluid on one side then the other.

I'm wondering if I have a problem with bad injectors, wiring problem, or a bad PCM/ECU.

 
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Skitter302

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The issue with my Bronco seem'd too erratic. Transmission issues,  injector issues, code 33 improving how the Bronco felt to me as the driver. I gave up checking for sensors and went for the EEC. Found out I have a damaged EEC IV unit.

Brown spot under Capacitor.

HP6uuZF.jpg

Green fuzz under the resistor and under

ZxVJDKy.jpg

 
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Skitter302

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I could try but the green corrosion by the other chip is harder to fix and could still be an issue.

I've got the New ECU from http://www.fiveologyracing.com So I'll swap that In an hope that this ends my drive-ability gremlin. Looks like acess to the injector harness on the pass-side of the engine involves taking off the upper-intake. I'm still thinking about a set of injectors since I have to take stuff apart any way. 

I was to the point that I was going to start replacing sensors and open up wiring looms to find the issue. I'm still worried about any damage that could of been done to my transmission while I have been driving the Bronco trying to find the issue.

 

miesk5

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Yo,

As for "open up wiring looms", start with the harnesses that have split plastic looms or harness tape disturbed. 

wireloom.jpg


Squirrels cracked same fuel injector connector last week, as well as chewed vacuum lines.

Same for connectors with broken locking tabs.

 

miesk5

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Yo,

NOID light is small light that can be plugged into any injector plugs to see if the Computer is grounding the injectors. You can rent one at most auto part stores.To use one you just unplug one of the fuel injectors and plug the NOID light in. Then crank the engine and if the NOID light flashes the computer is grounding the injectors OK.But if you can smell raw gas at the tailpipe when you crank it over then I would think the injectors are working and you wiould not need the NOID light.  Noid may be avail at local parts stores loan a tool program.

http://troubleshootmyvehicle.com/ford/4.9L-5.0L-5.8L/how-to-test-the-fuel-injectors-1


Fuel Injectors


Removal

  1. Perform Pre-Service procedures as described in Fuel Charging System in the Removal and Installation portion of this section.
  1. Remove upper intake manifold (9424) as described in Section 03-01B, and fuel injection supply manifold (9F792) as described in Fuel Injection Supply Manifold in the Removal and Installation portion of this section.
  1. Carefully remove electrical harness connectors from individual fuel injectors (9F593) as required.

    v4809c.gif
  1. Grasping fuel injector body, pull up while gently rocking fuel injector from side to side.

    v4810e.gif
  1. ani_caut.gif CAUTION: Do not attempt to clean the injector metering orifice with brushes.

    NOTE: Deposit resistant injectors (DRI) do not need to be cleaned.

    Inspect fuel injector O-rings (two per injector) for signs of deterioration. Replace as required.

    v5040c.gif
Installation

  1. ani_caut.gif CAUTION: Never use silicone grease. It will clog the fuel injectors.

    Lubricate new O-rings with light grade oil XO-10W30-QSP or equivalent oil meeting Ford specification ESE-M2C153-E and install two on each fuel injector.
  1. Install fuel injectors using light, twisting, pushing motion.
  1. Install fuel injection supply manifold as described in Fuel Injection Supply Manifold in the Removal and Installation portion of this section.
  1. Install electrical harness connectors to fuel injectors.
  1. Install upper intake manifold as described in Section 03-01B. Perform Post-Service procedures as described in Fuel Charging System in the Removal and Installation portion of this section.

 

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