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66-96 Ford Broncos - Early & Full Size
riggermortis

water pump pully

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has anyone changed thier water pump pully to increase speed and flow for mild temp problems. my bronc dont overheat in normal everyday driving but it tends to warm up when idleing on the trails. the radiator is free and clear, the stat is working, timing is good. i was just curious about changing the water pump pully and wanted some feedback. thanks

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It's normal for the temps to be higher when idling. Changing the pully is not the answer. You need to get air through the rad. Check that the fan clutch is good. You may want to consider an electric fan, that has an overide switch, so you can turn it on in those situations.

Check for a post from Seabronc. He put an electric fan in his ride. he can tell of all the parts you need. Here's a link with pics. (Thanks to Seabronc) http://www.supermotors.net/vehicles/registry/212/30394

Good Luck

Edited by Rons beast

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Hi Rigger..,

It's a double sheeve req. changing all belts.., and, there's not much room between it & the crank pulley anyway.

Not real sure how accurate these older gages are in the 1st. place.

(Could be checked with a lazer temp reader)

A common prob. is most folks run Waaaay to much anti freeze.

(Water is the best coolant.)

 

Sounds like you're up to spec i.e. rad., shroud (important) ., hoses., clean block, stat, etc.

If there's still a prob. I'd look at the cheaper fix @ $80+ for the higher volume waterpump.

(Both "left coast" suppliers stock them..... JBG may as well)

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I didn't even know there was a high volume water pump!

But my thinking is still the problem is not getting the coolent through the rad, but getting the rad to disperse the heat. If the problem is happening when the engine is idling, and on the trails, then there is very little air flowing through the rad.

Think of race cars. Staying in the draft= higher eng temps. The problem could get worse if the volume of coolent through the rad is increased. This decreases the "temp soak" time for the liquid to disperse it's heat to the rads fins, and subsequently to the air.

The answer is then to decrease the temp. of the rad fins by increasing the air flow across them, allowing the rad to disperse more heat.

 

Let us know how things turn out.

 

Good Luck

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Yep...! All the things I mentioned above are important & work in unison toward a common goal.

All things being equal, the weakest link in these systems is the stock waterpump.

They tend to cavitate & by-pass.

2nd weak link is "no shroud"

3rd is coolant overload.

The hi vol. pump is designed to move more water at low RPM's & backs off at speed.

BUT....! Don't hold my feet to the fire concerning this pump. I don't have/need one. My rig runs on normal pretty much yr. 'round.

 

Note: Elect. fans & alum. radiators are often needed when 351's are put in these rigs. >:D<<'>

 

Check me on this but I don't think race cars even run a fan... (8-9 thou. RPM)

A fan would restrict air at 190 MPH...? I think they run hi vol. elect. waterpumps.

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Correcto on the racecar Bully. My point being, the water flow wasn't the issue, it was the airflow through the rad. (or lack there of when in the draft.)

And I learned something...didn't know there was a high flow pump.

 

thanks

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i do have a shroud, and the coolant is up to spec. i will look into the high volume pump. thanks for the input!

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i do have a shroud, and the coolant is up to spec. i will look into the high volume pump. thanks for the input!

just change your fan clutch 40 bucks or less done make sure your fan shrould is good and temps will decrease or lock it up for mass air flow I always ran a fulltime fan..

 

BBB

Edited by bigbluebronc

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it has a full time factory fan. i went ahead and ordered up a high volume pump and 180 stat, hopefully this cures my problem. i'll let you guys know how it works, i'm going to moab in a couple weeks so that should be a good test! thanks for the input to all!

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KEWL..!

Use just enough coolant for the local temps & do post the results if you would. :D/

 

P.S. I ran a river raft co. there in Moab for a whole summer.. FUN PLACE.!

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well i installed the high volume pump and the 180 degree high flow stat and had the radiator flushed again just for good measure, and the results are in..... it runs great up and down the road all day long never gets above 180. but basiclly the same as before, if i stop and let it idle while my wife runs into the store for 10 minutes it gradually warms up. just in 10 minutes it was already holding 200 degrees and its only 85 degrees outside. mechaniclly the engine is sound, i dont know how many miles are on it exactly since it was rebuilt, but its somewhere around 30K to 40K, and probably 10 years old. it has a factory 3 row V8 radiator, a soild factory 7 blade fan, a factory shroud, im running the timming at 12 BTC on a efi swap, the engine is bored .30 over but that shouldnt make it run hot. i donk know but in my experience i should be able to let it idle all day long without any over temp problems, right? i guess the next thing to do, well about the only thing left is to put a 4 row radiator in it but it will probably be a while for that. or maybe somebody out there knows something else or sees something im doing wrong or cold do better.

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Don't recall your answer for where you're gett'n the temp. #'s The stock gages may not be that accurate.

Never mentioned how much anti-freeze you put in.

Curious why you let it idle that long.., do you have A/C.?

OR just testing.? Is water moving from rad. to recovery bottle during the higher temps..?

My rigs temps will climb a bit 4x4'n up hills & slow speeds, like Ron said.

BUT, normal driving, my gage reads/stays/normal @ 120 deg. with a 180 deg. stat. (again, not accurate)

(one day I may clean or repl. the send. unit :-")

200 deg. isn't that hi as long as it doesn't keep climbing--AND-- backs down when under way again.

Again, the lazer temp. readers are about $30 at Harbor Frt.

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my stock gage is suprising accurate, i checked it with my buddies lazer temp gun. i am running enough coolant so that boil over is at 225 or so and freeze is about -15, i live in northern utah and it can get down pretty close to that at least once or twice a year if not colder sometimes, and at the same time it gets up over 100 in the summer too. no i dont have a/c just testing, because i figure if i am on a trail or nasty dirt road i could be in low range first gear just idleing for sometimes very extended periods, and idleing along like that isnt pushing any more air through than if i were just parked, its just what the fan can pull. i do not have a bottle but have never had a problem loseing coolant, although it is something i should probably add into the system eventually. today after i gout home i pulled the radiator cap and let it run for quite a while watching the coolant flow out of the top three tubes and it is squirting out of them almost all the way across the tank and almost splashing out of the filler neck at about 1500 to 2000 rpm. i would think it is flowing plenty good. just for curiosity sake i do have a 12in spawl elect fan that i put down in front of the radiator, when it started climbing over about 195(or getting close to 200) i plugged the electric, and it stopped in its tracks and actually cooled back down to 180 or so. so maybe just adding the electric to help out the manual in those long idle situations is the key to my picky satisfaction.

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Hmmm.., well., it's "by me" ... of the 4 stock V/8 EB's I've had, (all 302's) none had, what I'd call, cooling systems in good/great shape. None of them ran warm/hot even here in the So. Nv. Desert.

However, they all ran @ 7-8 deg. adv., as I recall.

 

A thought would be, there's really no way to tell the rad. condition unless it's pulled & rodded out.

"..while watching the coolant flow out of the top three tubes and it is squirting out of them almost all the way across the tank and almost splashing out of the filler neck..?

Not sure 'bout this..... :unsure:

 

I've seen 351's with heat issues on here...but nobody is chime'n in with stock 302 heat issues. Don't know what to say at this point.. :huh:

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So air flow was the issue! Glad you got it fix before something bad happened.

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Don't think this 12" fan is/was permanent but even so., being there's hundreds of 302 EB's out there with no over heat problems...., all things being equal., a 2nd fan is simply a "bandage".!

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yes i know that the second fan would just be a bandage. i think what it comes down too is just me being over worried about nothing really, because all normal driving conditions, around town up and down the highway ect... it runs and operates fine. so i dont know if i really actually have a real problem or not, or if i'm just being picky about something that was designed and built almost 45years ago and expecting it to perform like a new vehicle?

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I live in "realville" "If the Emperior has no clothes.......!"

 

"designed and built almost 45years ago and expecting it to perform like a new vehicle?"

If it were built in 1920's., it should still perform well.! People drove those old rigs 3000 mi. across the USA on dirt/mud/rain/up-n-down hilly wagon trails, in the heat..!

The only real improvement over the 60's vehicles & now, would be electronics & "the jury is still out" on that...

 

I feel the same as you.... I'd want to (at least) know what's causing that. More likely I'd keep poking/testing 'til I found the culprit.

Ya., 180 up to 200 & back down....prob. not a big deal, but I'd be pissed if it started going over 200.

 

It's poss. the rad. internals are caked enough to "insulate" & not allow good heat transfer.... but still pass water. (the fan blowing on it & helping is a clue)

It's poss. to get a "bad" t-stat these days as well.

 

I had a '70 Land Cruiser (with that 'lil grill)...it had a chevy 350 stuffed in it & it ran 180 day/night/winter/summer/up-n-down hills/slo-n-go...etc.

 

I hate to tell ya to spend more $$ but maybe, as you said, a new rad. is in order.

(BTW., is that an AUTO or STICK.?)

 

You've been helpful on this board & as you know, W/O "laying an eyeball" :-B on these things.....it's really a guessing game.

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I don't think you mentioned if you have any other modifications to your Bronc. If you do that can change the factors that would allow every other part to work exactly as designed. In most cases there is no detrimental condition, IE: overheating, poor milage, etc. when a vehicle is modified with proper work and parts. That being said, it could be the cause of your condition, and the extra fan is the "cure" or as Bully says the "bandage"

 

I have been running a 160 tstat, in The Beast for about 5 yrs now. Some say you can't use anything under 180, but that is what I'm doing. Here in Fla. when it's 101 in August and I'm stuck in traffic, I never go over 190-195. That measured with and Ultraguage. My rad is 5 yrs old too. (put in with the 160 stat.) I believe like you that heat is the enemy of an engine, and prefer to keep mine as cool as possible and still working properly.

 

You may be more "picky" as you say, but that isn't a bad thing. It's up to you, but I would keep the electric fan.

 

One thing to check, after the engine is warmed up and the coolent has been flowing for awhile, shut it down and feel the core of the rad. See if the top or bottom feel substantially warmer than the other. If so you may have the beginings of a blockage in the rad. If not, hit that fan switch when needed and be happy!

 

Good Luck.

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as far as what i ment by performing like a new vehicle, the new cars/trucks have the years and research behind them and are running much more efficently in all areas, heating and cooling, fuel, intake and exhaust, ect... if that bronco was built today im guessing it would have a much larger aluminum radiator. anyway as far as what i have done to it, it was rebuilt by a local shop about 2002-2003 .30 over pistons and a mild RV cam, drove it daily until 2004-2005, installed speed density mustang EFI. drove it daily up until a little over a year ago, then it got parked for a better gas mileage commuter. between 2005 and 2010 i installed oem power steering(6 turn box), oem power brakes, 65amp alternator, 3 speed with overdrive(SROD)from a late 60's early 70's econoline, 4 inch lift, and 35" BFG's, dana 44 and oem disk breaks. most resent, high volume water pump and high flow 180 stat from WCB. it has had all of these mods for a while and never had issues so im wondering if it might just be time for a new radiator since it is the original from '67, i will check it later today for hot/cold spots because for whatever reason that never dawned on me, but hey thats what these forums are for right?

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WOW Rigger...!

That's quite a list & nothing I haven't had/wouldn't like to have. (meaning nothing radical)

(BTW, all that should have been in you sig. all along, for obvious reasons)

Nothing jumps out as an overheat culptit. ('cept the rad.)

& OMG.! This has turned into "H2o thermal dynamics metallurgy engineering 101" --- :-B:lol:

You know your committed to posting any & all results...?

 

Water-cooled combustion engines simply run/perform better between 180-200 deg.

The T-stat has nothing (for the most part) to do with the running temp of the motor. (I believe the newer design eng's. all run @ closer to 200 for optimum performance)

One could put in a 90deg. 'stat (in their EB) & the eng. will still run at 180 deg.

All the 'stat does is wait 'til a given temp is reached., then it opens.

Some folks try removing the 'stat for better cooling.., only to find it takes longer to warm up & in some cases actually overheats.

 

The EB rad. was plenty large & likely oversized fr. the factory. (It's way bigger than my 'lil 6cyl rad.)

However, the new V/8 styles, like Wildhorses has, is an improvment. (4 core, etc.)

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hey i did finally get to check for hot and cold spots on the radiator, and unfortunatly it would appear that i do have some cool spots witch would indicate restricted or plugged passages :( this would and should explain my insuficient cooling problems. looks as if a new radiator is in order after all :(( might be a while before that happens due to lack of funds, and to make matters worse the moab trip i was all excited about is off too! everyone petered out on me and cant go for one reason of another. oh well maybe this fall, and that will give me time to get the new radiator anyway. i will post and let everyone know how much cooler it runs afterwards. thanks for all the input and brain scratchin! i will try and help out wherever i can!

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Cool! (no pun intended.) You dilligently worked and found the problem.

Good luck with the rad.

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