Surging Idle

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Deep

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My 87 Bronco has developed an issue on start up whereas the engine will begin to surge and sometimes die. Engine RPM's are from 500 to 1000. This problem occurrs when the engine is cold and coming up on temperature. Once at temperature the truck runs fine, other then an occasional surge when the thermostat opens or closes. I have specific information on my truck listed on my profile under "about me". I have flushed the radiator system, installed new thermostat and new radiator cap. Could the sensor above my thermostat housing be bad, sending poor info to the computer? Could this be a Map Sensor issue...? Looking for some ideas and pulling from your experience out there.

Thanks

 

BroncoJoe19

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Deep

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Throughly checked for vacuum leaks with the "propane method", good to go with no leaks. Checked the IAC and cleaned it with Gumont Carb Cleaner then followed with blowing out with compressed nitrogen, reinstalled with new gasket. No changes for the better......most noticeable change I am detecting is when the thermostat opens or closes. Engine cold, it runs rough. Once at temperature it idles fine with only a slight surge ocassionally.

 

miesk5

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Next is to try a Self Test for Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC)s by my pal, BroncoJoe19

The engine temperature must be greater than 50° F for the Key On Engine Off (KOEO) Self-Test and greater than 180° F for the Key On Engine Running (KOER) Self-Test.

Run it around to heat the engine up and shift thru all gears incl Reverse. Then turn off all accessories/lights, etc.

Make sure A/C is off and transmission is in Park (automatic) or in Neutral for a Manual & release clutch.

Do Key On Engine Off (KOEO) portion first.

Look Codes up in my broncolinks.com site using the new Search function.

And Post em here according to:

KOEO

&

KOER

======

Back to da IA;

Idle Air Control (IAC) Sludge; Poor Idle TSB 91-25-07 for 85-92 Bronco & F Series & many others, Modification; "...I have spent some time this week trying to set up an air bypass around the IAC valve by cutting away some of the gasket between the IAC in and out air holes, rather than pay big bucks for Fords spacer kit. I cut away the center of the original IAC gasket from the outside of each hole to the outside of the other hole, giving about 1/2" gap for the air to pass through. I noticed an immediate improvement in the engines starting behavior, but it would still die occasionally. For most of my trucks life it has been dying when it was started hot. It would rev up and then drop the idle so low it would die unless I would catch the idle with the accelerator. It would never die when cold as the IAC would keep the idle speed up, and it never died at stop lights. Now it's worst situation seems to be when it has been shut down for a half hour or so, and restarted. I wonder if the heat soak is fooling the ETC into thinking the engine is warmer than it really is. I decided that more improvement could be had if I had a thicker gasket, because the original IAC gasket was very thin (0.018"). I had some 0.030" gasket material so I made my own with the same 1/2" cut out. This gave enough bypass to noticeably raise the idle speed and almost eliminate the dying. After maybe 50 starts in the last few days, it only died twice. After so many years of catching it with the accelerator it is darned hard to leave my foot off it. It is clear to me that by trial and error one can tune the air bypass without the need for the expensive Ford kit. I may combine the two gaskets for more bypass, but the idle is about as fast as I would want now, especially for driving in snow..."; miesk5 Note, Tomco makes an idle plate P/N 8491 = to Ford, P/N F2PZ9F939A; Like Ford’s service kit, Tomco’s spacer plat e (arrow) is installed between the air bypass valve and its mounting boss using two gaskets. The two holes in the plate are for bleeder screws, which provide a minimum air rate adjustment independent of the throttle opening.

Source: by Nelbur at Ford Bronco Zone Forum http://broncozone.com/topic/22150-fast-idle-problem/page__pid__115710#entry115710

or;

Modification of Idle Air Control (IAC) Sludge; Poor Idle TSB 91-25-07 for 85-92 Bronco & F Series & many others; "...That is an adjustable idle plate....aka....idle air metering block...aka idle-fixer. You can get it from your Ford dealer. Last one I bought for a customer's truck was about $85 and it came with new mounting screws. made my own (fixed-orfice) plate by cutting a piece of 1/8" flat bar to the shape of my IAC Valve gasket and drilling the passage holes 3/32". I started with 1/16" holes but that weren't quite large enough for my particular engine. Point there is that different engines may require their own orfice size....hence the two adjustments on the Ford (factory) version. These things have been in use for 15 years that I know of, maybe more.....which tells me that Ford has known all along that they had a design glitch in their EFI idle air valve system..."

Source: by DGW1949

See the TSB and more IAC info in my site @ http://www.broncolinks.com/index.php?index=397

 
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Deep

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Will perform the DTC's and get back with the results. Good info on the IAC, very informative thank you.

 
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KOEO Results: (14 Jan '12)

13 - RPM Out Of Specification During Normal Idle

15 - Failure In Electronic Control Assembly (ECA)- Problems With Keep Alive Memory

51 - Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) Sensor - Signal Voltage Too High

54 - Air Charge Temperature (ACT) Sensor - Signal Voltage Too High

KOER Results: (14 Jan '12)

13 - RPM Out Of Specification During Normal Idle

33 - EGR Valve Position (EVP) Sensor Indicates EGR Valve Is Not Openning (This has been removed blocked off on my bronco)

44 - Problems In Thermactor Air Control System (This has also been removed from my bronco)

After getting the codes I replaced the ACT and ECT Sensors. I erased computer memory as well. For my first three days of driving, my bronco was purring like a kitten. This morning 24 Jan '12, I began have surging issues yet again...I pulled codes after driving 20 miles into work.....

KOEO Results (24 Jan '12)

41 - Exhaust Gas Oxygen Sensor (EGO) Sensor Voltage Signal Always Lean - Does Not Switch.

54 - Air Charge Temperature (ACT) Sensor - Signal Voltage Too High

KOER Results (24 Jan '12)

54 - Air Charge Temperature (ACT) Sensor - Signal Voltage Too High

98 - A System Problem Is Present Causing the Electronic Control Assembly (ECA) To Operate In Failure Management and Effects Mode (FMEM) or, Exhaust Gas Oxygen Sensor (EGO) Sensor Voltage Signal Always Lean or, Electronic Pressure Control (EPC) Solenoid - Circuit Failure

 

tiller83

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I was taught to start simple,have you checked your air filter,fuel filter,spark plugs-wires-cap and rotor.usualy these things(the basics)will affect the rest of the add ons.I have a 94 bronco that I'm borrowing presently and it does that occasionaly if I stop and start alot.usualy I turn it off,turn the ign on and wait a few seconds before restart.

 
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I was taught to start simple,have you checked your air filter,fuel filter,spark plugs-wires-cap and rotor.usualy these things(the basics)will affect the rest of the add ons.I have a 94 bronco that I'm borrowing presently and it does that occasionaly if I stop and start alot.usualy I turn it off,turn the ign on and wait a few seconds before restart.

I changed all filters recently, new dist., cap and rotor, new pcv valve, new plugs and plug wires all new vacuum lines. Will check my coil and the map sensor this weekend...don't want to just replace them without first testing. Replaced my air temp and engine temp sensors due to the codes I had pulled.....probably something simple that I may be overlooking; not going to give up.

 

miesk5

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DTC 98 Hard fault present; Failure Mode Effects Management (FMEM) FMEM is an alternate system strategy in the PCM designed to maintain vehicle operation should one or more sensor inputs fail. When a sensor input is perceived to be out-of-limits by the PCM, an alternative strategy will be initiated. The PCM will substitute a fixed in-limit sensor value and will continue to monitor the faulty sensor input. If the faulty sensor operates within limits, the PCM will return to the normal engine running strategy. Engine Running DTC 98 or 998 will be displayed when FMEM is in effect. The Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL)/Message will remain on when FMEM is in effect. The MIL will come on while the engine is operating in Failure Mode Effects Management (FMEM) or Hardware Limited Operation Strategy (HLOS) modes. The light will stay on for at least 10 seconds, then stay on as long as the fault causing it is present. If the MIL flashes quickly (less than 10 seconds), the MIL circuit should be checked for concerns. Refer to «Quick Test». In FMEM mode, the PCM is receiving a sensor signal that is outside the limits set by the calibration strategy. In this mode, the PCM uses an alternate engine control strategy to maintain reasonable vehicle operation in spite of the fault. The DTC associated with this fault is stored in Keep Alive Memory (KAM). If the fault is no longer present, the light will turn off and the vehicle will return to the normal vehicle strategy. The DTC stored when the light was on is kept in Continuous Memory for the next 80 warm-up cycles (40 cycles on some applications) and then erased. This Continuous Memory DTC can be accessed by running the Key On Engine Off Self-Test. It should have some code(s) come up that will help narrow this down.

DTC 41

LIGHT TRUCK: 1986-91 BRONCO, ECONOLINE, F-150-350 SERIES

1988-91 F SUPER DUTY, F47

ISSUE: Lack of power or a no start condition may be diagnosed as an exhaust restriction caused by a plugged catalytic converter. A plugged catalytic converter (internal deterioration) is usually caused by abnormal engine operation.

ACTION: Diagnose the catalytic converter to confirm internal failure. Refer to the Catalyst and Exhaust System Diagnostic Section, in the Engine/Emissions Diagnostic Shop Manual and the following procedures for service details.

SERVICE PROCEDURE

1. Lack of proper HEGO operation may cause, or be the result of a rich or lean fuel condition, which could cause additional heat in the catalyst. Perform self test KOEO and KOER, service any codes.

NOTE: IF TWO DIGIT CODES 41, 42, 85 OR THREE DIGIT CODES 171, 172, 173, 179, 181, 182, 183 AND 565 ARE RECIEVED, CHECK FOR PROPER HEGO GROUND.

If the HEGO ground is good, the following areas may be at fault:

* Ignition Coil

* Distributor Cap

* Distributor Rotor

* Fouled Spark Plug

* Spark Plug Wires

* Air Filter

* Stuck Open Injector

* Fuel Contamination Engine OIL

* Manifold Leaks Intake/Exhaust

* Fuel Pressure

* Poor Power Ground

* Engine Not At Normal Operating Temperature

* HEGO Sensor

2. Spark timing that is ******** from specification may increase exhaust gas temperature and shorten catalyst life. Refer to the following procedure for service details.

a. Check spark timing. Check base timing with spout disconnected. Set base timing to the specification on the vehicle emission decal.

b. Check computed timing with spout connected.

NOTE: COMPUTED TIMING IS EQUAL TO BASE TIMING PLUS 20° BTDC ± 3°.

3. Misfiring spark plugs may cause an unburned fuel air mixture to pass through the catalyst, which could cause higher than normal catalyst temperatures. Refer to the following procedure for service details. Check secondary ignition, hook the vehicle up to an engine analyzer and check for a secondary ignition misfire.

NOTE: SERVICE ANY ITEM THAT IS NOT PERFORMING AT PROPER SPECIFICATIONS BEFORE CONTINUING.

4. Fuel pressure that is too high may cause rich air fuel mixtures to pass through the catalyst which could cause higher than normal catalyst temperatures. Refer to the following procedure for service details.

a. Check fuel pressure, install fuel pressure gauge, start and run the engine at idle. Fuel pressures between 28 and 34 PSI are typical (4.9L typically is 15 PSI higher).

b. Disconnect the vacuum line going to the fuel pressure regulator. Fuel pressure typically jumps to 40 PSI ± 3 PSI (4.9L typically is 15 PSI higher). Visually inspect vacuum line for raw fuel.

NOTE: FUEL PRESSURES ABOVE THESE VALUES SHOULD BE CORRECTED. HOWEVER, THIS MAY NOT BE THE CAUSE OF THE CONCERN. SERVICE AS NECESSARY.

5. Throttle plates in the throttle body not returning to the proper closed position may cause excessive catalyst temperatures during downhill grades. Refer to the following procedure for service details. Visually inspect the throttle body and linkage for:

* Binding or sticking throttle linkage.

* Tight speed control linkage or cable.

* Vacuum line interference.

* Electrical harness interference.

NOTE: AFTERMARKET GOVERNORS, THROTTLE LINKAGE AND CABLES ASSOCIATED WITH POWER TAKE-OFF UNITS, MAY ALSO INTERFERE WITH PROPER THROTTLE RETURN. SERVICE AS NECESSARY.

6. It is extremely important that all systems related to the engine and emission systems operate properly.

a. Visually inspect the engine compartment to make sure all vacuum hoses and spark plug wires are properly routed and securely connected.

b. Inspect all wiring harnesses and connectors for insulation damage, burned, overheated, loose or broken conditions.

c. Verify proper operation of the thermactor system. Thermactor systems that fail to dump thermactor air to the atmosphere properly or at the correct time can cause high catalyst temperatures.

d. Visually inspect thermactor system for damaged or kinked hoses and perform a function test on following components: air control valve, check valve, silencer, filter and the air bypass solenoid.

e. Verify proper operation of the engine cooling system thermostat.

Almsot same as above by Ryan M @ http://oldfuelinjection.com/?p=31

DTC 54; the Intake Air Temp (IAT), (Air Charge Temperature [ACT] prior to 1992) sensor out of range. This one could be due to the engine not being warmed up or suspect nbad connector, shorted sensor, harness.

This sensor has 5v supplied to it (Voltage Reference (VREF) is a conditioned regulated constant 5v DC power source supplied by the PCM}, and returns a signal voltage based on temperature. If voltage from this sensor reads above 4.6v, the PCM sets the code.

Overview & Testing; "...This measures the temperature of the air entering the engine. Which impacts the fuel ratio; the cooler the incoming air is the denser it is. Denser air can utilize more fuel, giving us even greater accuracy in obtaining our desired air to fuel ratio. Before you start blaming the air charge temperature sensor and replacing it make sure the rest of the coolant system is in good condition. All of the following items will affect the ACT; Coolant level, Radiator Fan, Engine Temperature..." READ MORE

Source: by Ryan M (Fireguy50) at http://oldfuelinjection.com/?p=29

 
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Deep

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Thanks Miesk5, as always a lot of good information.

I am running without my EVP and EGR, I blocked porting for this at the manifold with a proper plug and utilized a plate with gasket at the intake side. Vacuum lines associated with this have been plugged. Electrical however is still connected to the solenoids....should I unplug these? Thermactor air system also removed and again approriate lines plugged and ports on back of heads plugged. EGR/EVP harness has an "EGR Eliminator" plugged into it. I run true dual exhaust with 18" glass paks....catylatic converter long gone.

I will pull a resistance check on the coil and replace the O2 sensor as I have about 40000 miles on it. I use to get more mileage out of the O2 sensors, but I am beginning to think ethanol fuel is coming into to play and degrading normal service life of the sensor.....possibly I am in left field with this.....

Recently flushed and filled my radiator (last month) replaced the thermostat at that time and the radiator cap. But I will pressure test that system to be sure. I have got to get the ole girl back to purring...

Have been utilizing the "Fuel Injection Technical Library" as well and will refer back to that to ensure wires are routed correctly ect...

Last I will check my fuel pressure regulator and ensure no hidden suprises there.

Will be back in touch.

 

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