87 big bronco electrical issues

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87broncogirl

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My truck has been having electrical issues. it started 3 months ago and i still cant figure it out. it started with not wanting to start all the time, you would turn the key and hear it crank, but never turn over, or 50/50 that it wouldnt. then it started shutting off while i was driving it, everything...just shut off like it was never on.

 

I have replaced the battery, the alternator, the fuel pump, the ignition module under the distributor cap and starter and the cylinoid have been tested and are running great. i have heard that i must have a broken wire somewhere or that i am grounding out...but that doesnt give me a direction to look in as to where to start.

 

PLEASE HELP

 

Bully Bob

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Hi Randy., welcome..!

Just went thru a simular problem. Tried a (spare) coil., didn't

help... :angry:

however, the third (spare) coil did the trick. Runs great now.

I was always told coils "quit" (completely) when they quit. In my case., it would run 'til I got down to idle, quit, & not re-start. Then it would start & run again.. :unsure:

Point being., I'm not sure how the coil is set-up on your rig., but, give it a check. They're usually pretty cheap & easy to replace.

Get a good quality unit if you need one.

HTH

B

 

miesk5

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yo Randi,

WELCOME!

This problem could be caused by a # of thangs as you know;

Try a Self Test for Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC)s by my pal, BroncoJoe19 here @ http://broncozone.com/topic/14269-code-reader/page__pid__74587__mode__threaded

The engine temperature must be greater than 50°F (10°C) to pass the KOEO Self-Test and greater than 180°F (82°C) to pass the KOER Self-Test.

Run it around to heat the engine up and shift thru all gears incl Reverse. Then turn off all accessories/lights, etc.

Make sure A/C is off and transmission is in Park (automatic) or in Neutral for a Manual & release clutch.

Do Key On Engine Off (KOEO) portion first.

Look Codes up in my broncolinks.com site using the new Search function.

And Post em here according to:

KOEO

&

KOER

===============

Testing, No Start and or Misfire, Overview & Diagrams, Thick Film Ignition (TFI), Distributor Mounted Ignition Control Module (ICM) (ignition module) by easyautodiagnostics.com

====

Guesses for now;

DTC 14 & 18; Profile Ignition Pickup (PIP) & Troubleshooting; "...The top three leads (for PIP signal) can lose continuity with the back plate (ground) on the module when the unit is hot. You should consider a remote mounted TFI. If your TFI is failing from heat, it can give off computer codes 14 (PIP) and 18 (SPOUT). stalling/dieing or sputtering when hot but runs when it cools off. This can be caused by a faulty TFI and the biggest culprits are heat. Another culprit can be a wire grounding out. Problematic TFI's can give off codes 14 (PIP) and 18 (SPOUT)..."

Overview & Wave Form, Ford; "...The stator is a Hall Effect device, which uses a magnetic field. It sits under the distributor cap and picks up a signal from a wheel with teeth. (miesk5 NOTE; this wheel is a rotary armature that has open areas called windows and tabs, called vanes). The wheel has the same number of teeth as cylinders in the engine and moves at the same speed as the distributor and camshaft. If you have a V8 then the wheel has eight teeth; seven teeth are the same and one tooth is smaller to identify cylinder #1. As the wheel spins with the distributor is breaks the magnetic field of the hall devise generating a sine wave. This sine wave is called the raw Profile Ignition Pickup (PIP) signal and indicates the engine status at 10deg. BTDC. Now some people think the TFI is responsible for this, but that is incorrect; the PIP signal passes threw the TFI unaltered to the computer. This sensor is so accurate that cam changes can be a bad thing. The computer is programmed when to open fuel injectors in relation to the valve timing from PIP. Changing the valve timing with a cam swap won't be noticed by the computer. So optimal performance and idle will not be to their true potential. As I've said on other pages this sensor is extremely important. Without it working properly the computer never senses the engine moving and the entire vehicle is a paper weight.

you have a distributor mounted TFI, it too can be the problem, because the PIP signal must pass through it to the computer. The stator and TFI both share the same grounds and power circuits, when one fails the other might be bad as well. It's a standard practice at dealerships and most quality repair shops to replace the TFI and stator at the same time. This prevents the problem from re-appearing a few weeks latter..."

Misfiring, Rough Idle, Surge, & Ping-Knock Symptoms, due to a Magnetized Shutter Wheel, (Bronco & all Fords w/EEC IV & TFI); "...Inside the TFI distributor is a Hall-Effect sensor that provides an RPM and POSITION signal to the Ignition module and ECM for fuel and ignition control. Mounted to the distributor shaft is a "shutter-wheel" that passes through the Hall-Effect sensor. The slots or windows cut in the shutter-wheel are what makes the Hall-Effect sensor switch on/off to create the signal it sends out. The shutter-wheel is supposed to be a piece of "dead" steel but can become magnetized. A magnetized wheel can cause very erratic operation of the Hall-Effect and resulting erratic output signal. The Test: There are a couple of ways to check for this condition. One is to simply pull off the distributor cap and see if something steel will "stick" to the shutter-wheel. Make sure that whatever you are using to check the wheel with isn't magnetized itself. A more accurate method would be to watch the wave-form on the "SPOUT" wire with a Vantage or Lab-Scope. The SPOUT is the wire with the connector in it that you unplug to set ignition timing. Monitor the wave-pattern on the SPOUT with the timing-connector in. If there is anything erratic about the wave-form, unplug the timing connector and re-check the wave-form. If the pattern "cleans up" all of a sudden, chances are good that you have a magnetized shutter-wheel. The Fix: Most shutter-wheels can be removed from the distributor shaft with a couple of screws. (miesk5 Note; But Not in our Fords; many just buy a re-man distributor from Ford or NAPA) Everybody seems to have their own way of de-magnetizing the wheels but good success has been had with bulk audio-tape erasers or by placing the wheel in an engine parts cleaning oven and baking it. That last one sounds weird but it works..." Scroll down Source: by snapon.com via archive.org

Slow to Load the site because it is retrieved from the archives.

ALSO:

Jeff at the Bronco Graveyardhas offered a 2% discount to members of The BroncoZone for on line orders. To get your discount, enter the discount code BZMEMBER. Also you must include your BroncoZone User Name with the order.

 
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87broncogirl

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at this point it now doesnt start at all.  started testing electrical lines, pulled the ECM and there is a sticker on it that says "FOR FORD TAURUS ONLY"  go figure....bought it that way, now i cant find the right ECM.  pulled the engine a few years ago, dropped a different one in, and now O'reillys says they need the original ECM to figure out the right one...problem being, i dont have it.  called ford, gave them the vin, doesnt work, too old.  at this point, that has to be the problem.  i dropped an ECM in it, got it started, but after a few times, it stopped priming the fuel pump...found the problem, no power to the fuel pump...if i run jumper cables to it from the battery, it works...so i know its not the pump...any other suggestions on how to figure out which ECM i need?

 

BroncoJoe19

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The ECM does not send power to the fuel pump, (and in an 87 you have two pumps, one in the tank and one on the driver's side frame rail). The EEC RELAY sends power to the coil side of the Fuel Pump relay, and the EEC sends a GROUND to the coil side of the fuel pump relay. That should trigger the switch side of the relay to close, and send power to the inertia switch and then onto the pumps.

You might have a bad relay, or a burnt fuseable link (attached to the battery side of the fender mounted starter relay, (or it might be loose.)

How to use self test connector to troubleshoot fuel pump electrical problems
http://www.fordforumsonline.com/forum/engine-drivetrain/1396-1988-ranger-2-3l-wont-start.html
Additional fuel pump diagnostics
http://broncozone.com/topic/22512-no-fuel-pressure-diagnostics/

 
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BroncoJoe19

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My truck has been having electrical issues. it started 3 months ago and i still cant figure it out. it started with not wanting to start all the time, you would turn the key and hear it crank, but never turn over, or 50/50 that it wouldnt. then it started shutting off while i was driving it, everything...just shut off like it was never on.

I have replaced the battery, the alternator, the fuel pump, the ignition module under the distributor cap and starter and the cylinoid have been tested and are running great. i have heard that i must have a broken wire somewhere or that i am grounding out...but that doesnt give me a direction to look in as to where to start.

PLEASE HELP
Hi Randi,

I apologize, that I didn't read your first post before responding.

When you said "it started shutting off while i was driving it, everything...just shut off like it was never on." Do you mean, "like someone turned the key off... even the dash lights went off"?

If so, then I would really look at the battery connection to the battery side of the fender mounted starter relay. The EEC relay, and the Fuel pump relay both get power from there by way of separate fuseable links.

You might try swapping relays around, or testing them.

How to check a relay

http://www.fordforumsonline.com/forum/electrical-lighting/144-howto-check-relay.html

 

Seabronc

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That is also indicative of a bad TFI module.  A couple of diagrams that may help understand the comments previously made above.

:)>-

89EEC 001a.jpg

89EEC 002a.jpg

1985 EVTM 003.jpg

 

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