Fuel Injection swap advice

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Paul Dudley

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Hi all.

I just left a long post on the intro page about my Bronco. I want to convert to fuel injection and I;m not sure which way to go. Option 1 is to add Holley's Pro-jection TBI kit to my existing (healthy and stock) 351m. Option 2 is to swap in the 5.0HO motor that currently resides in my field-racing Lincoln Mark VII. The Bronco is a manual (np435) so I would need to buy a clutch/flywheel. My goal is to make it a more efficient tow rig. Not heavy towing, just as much as 5000 lbs. But sometimes I need to tow pretty far, so fuel economy is more important than adding power (maybe). Anyway, if you're interested in more details, check out my post in the intro section.

Paul

 

Broncobill78

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Just a personal opinion but I'd run with the pro-jection setup for the 351M, primarily because you say what's most important to you is the ability to tow. The H.O. is a great motor for the LSC or a Mustang/Cougar but it's really not setup as a towing engine. Add to that the fact that there was never a 302 option for the 78/79's so it's not really a bolt-in deal. To use the 302 as a tow motor in that truck you're looking at a new cam, new flexplate, a different bellhousing (302 & 351M have different bolt patterns) and some 302 motor mounts from a 73-79 F-series. Not that any of it is high-dollar stuff but add it all up AND toss in the time & effort to pull two engines & install the 302 and all it's associated wiring and I'd be inclined to stick with a solid running 351M and add the throttle body EFI which will increase your hp, torque & mileage. You'll spend roughly the same amount of cash and save a whole bunch of time & banged-up knuckles. Just my two cents.

 
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Paul Dudley

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Just a personal opinion but I'd run with the pro-jection setup for the 351M, primarily because you say what's most important to you is the ability to tow. The H.O. is a great motor for the LSC or a Mustang/Cougar but it's really not setup as a towing engine. Add to that the fact that there was never a 302 option for the 78/79's so it's not really a bolt-in deal. To use the 302 as a tow motor in that truck you're looking at a new cam, new flexplate, a different bellhousing (302 & 351M have different bolt patterns) and some 302 motor mounts from a 73-79 F-series. Not that any of it is high-dollar stuff but add it all up AND toss in the time & effort to pull two engines & install the 302 and all it's associated wiring and I'd be inclined to stick with a solid running 351M and add the throttle body EFI which will increase your hp, torque & mileage. You'll spend roughly the same amount of cash and save a whole bunch of time & banged-up knuckles. Just my two cents.
 
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Paul Dudley

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Excellent input Dave, thanks.

The bellhousing bolts were the biggest question mark. Motor mounts too. In fact that was grade A feedback. Pro-jection it is. I've read through the instructions on Holley's website, seems pretty straighforward. It will require a new intake as well; probably Edelbrock.

I love the idea of a simple fuel injection system designed to be user adjustable but without a laptop. Borderline too simple...NO MAP OR MAF!?! Just TPS ECT IAT and TACH...and an O2 sensor "upgrade."

It will be like buying time.

 

muddrivermike

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This may just be me wasting your time but,A couple of different people Ive talk to either through friends or elseware have for some reason always have some kind of drivability or running problem with these fuel injection setups.Ive heard a couple of times of the holley ones acting up,Along with a couple others.I have never heard anybody say ANYTHING positive about any of their Injection setup that they have installed.They also ended up ripping it all apart just to put their carb back on,and were very ****** off about how much it cost that they were out of.Like I said Im not trying to deter you or anything,I just havent heard any good things about them,Hopefully someone else on here will have more input for you.

 
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Paul Dudley

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DOH!!!

I mean thanks Mike. This is the first feedback I've heard of any kind on Holley's TBI setup. Chances are I'll wind up going with it anyway.

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know of a factory TBI that will bolt up to a 351m manifold (stock or aftermarket)? Obviously a Ford one is preferable, but I know GM was way bigger into that kind of setup on their 80s V8s. Please excuse sacrilege, I'm just that cheap.

Paul

 

muddrivermike

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DOH!!!I mean thanks Mike. This is the first feedback I've heard of any kind on Holley's TBI setup. Chances are I'll wind up going with it anyway.

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know of a factory TBI that will bolt up to a 351m manifold (stock or aftermarket)? Obviously a Ford one is preferable, but I know GM was way bigger into that kind of setup on their 80s V8s. Please excuse sacrilege, I'm just that cheap.

Paul
Nope nothing,Us people with the modified engines are lucky there are accessories out there as it is.Compared to a million parts for a chevy 350. :((

 
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Paul Dudley

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I just ordered Holley's Pro-jection TBI setup for my Bronco, along with an Edelbrock intake. 3-4 days till delivery. Apparently they updated/upgraded the ECU a year or two ago for better driveability. I'm really excited and needless to say, I'll keep the forum updated on how easy installation is and how well the system works. I've been a part of ECU tuning before and it's always kind of a pain in the ass, until you get it right.

 
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Paul Dudley

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Okay, so I began the Pro-Jection installation Sunday and so far, I've only got one question. I pulled the intake, to be replaced by an Edelbrock unit. There was no intake gasket, just the metal splash shield. I ordered a new gasket, thinking they would send me a whole new splash shield, but instead they sent me a conventional gasket. Do I need to use the splash shield??? As far a I can see all it does is keep the bottom of the manifold clean.

So, option 1) new gasket and old splash shield

2) new gasket and no splash shield

3) just the old splash shield

thoughts, advice?

 

Yardape

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If I remember correctly you need that tin plate to keep the correct fitment of the intake.

 
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Paul Dudley

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I would like to use the plate AND my new gasket, but the old manifold had NO gasket. Do you remember if the plate is supposed to be reused or replaced. I can't imagine it's a throw away every time the intake is removed.

 

Yardape

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Honestly I have only seen this plate stripping engines before, I have never owned an engine with it that I am aware of. But im pretty sure it should have a gasket, around the intake ports, is the plate flat or dimpled? If its dimpled around the port it would make sense that it is made to seal that way instead of a gasket. So hopefully somebody that knows what they are talking about for sure might catch this and respond, LOL. Steve? any input?

 

Elmo

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that tin shield/plate is called the valley pan and it IS the gasket it should also have cork or neoprene strips that cross the valley at the front and rear and use a bit of silicone around the water ports I would not reuse it unless it has been replaced like last month other wise it probably will leak vacume

 

Broncobill78

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The valley pan is a crush gasket kind of think so it really isn't reusable. As I understand it the purpose of the pan is to keep the hot oil off the bottom of the intake. People go both ways with these, either using a "standard" gasket set or a new valley pan. If you go with a new pan don't use the cork/rubber end pieces of the gasket set & just run a bead of silicone. Don't use any silicone on the valley pan flanges as it will eventually cook off from the heat & you'll have vacuum leaks. I've heard of guys using copper sprayseal and reusing valley pans but have no experience with it myself.

 
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Paul Dudley

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I completed the install and fired up my new fuel injected motor last night.

For the manifold I reused the valley pan AND a new felpro gasket. It hasn't run long enough for mw to tell if it leaks vacuum or not, let's hope not.

I've still got to run the wires and loom what I can, as well as solid mounting some things and drill/weld the return line into the filler neck (now it's just stuffed into the open fuel tank).

The Bronco fired right up without incident. I need a new/stiffer throttle return spring...either that or the throttle plate is sticking.

Time to go yutz around with it for an hour before work. More on this later. Thanks to all you guys out there who know more about Broncos than me.

 
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Paul Dudley

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The manifold does not leak, and all else is going smooth as well. Everything is plumbed and I just got done welding the return line. The setup is remarkably easy to work with and my 351 responds well to it. Tomorrow after work I'll tune it on a test drive with a copilot. I feel a sick day coming on!!!

 

muddrivermike

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Good for you dude,Im glad that the set up is working good so far,Keep us updated Id like to know how it runs down the road and all. :D /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

 
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Paul Dudley

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I did my first towing with the Bronco since the FI swap and I'm happy to say it's much more responsive. Less downshifts, better sound, bigger torque. Ironically, I was towing the Lincoln with the 5.0 to a buddy's house. The engine was removed...next stop 1990 Mazda Miata. Without the O2 sensor "upgrade" the ECU doesn't compensate for temperature very well, so on a cold morning I have to richen it up with the twist of a ****. It's great, within a mile I've got the AFR for haulin ass.

 

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