Diesel Conversion!

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Orangecrush

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Okay, I'm done with the 7 mpg wonder. I've decided to sell it, or otherwise drop in something more fuel efficient (yea, I know the cost of doing this will be hard to recoup; but, I can't drive around in something that costs $.50 per mile).

Anyone know if this has been done? The objective is reasonable power and an emphasis on economy. I'd love to get 25+ mpg! As long as I'm generating say 175 hp and maybe 250 ft/lb of torque, I'm happy. It's the mpg that matters.

I'd like to keep the C4 tranny, but don't know if any diesel will bolt up? If not, what engine/tranny combo? What other problems will come up considering I have power steering and a/c?

Thanks!

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Seabronc

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From what I've read, it doesn't seem that a diesel is a very good option due to weight and conversion problems. Try a Google search using "Ford+bronco+diesel+conversion", no quotes. It has been done and someone on the forum has done it using a Cummins, it think it was BLADE262US. The additional front end weight seems to have it's own set of problems. I'm considering some sort of conversion myself but I'm convinced I can get my existing arrangement up to 20 MPG, I'm at 13.7 highway now.

Good luck,

:)>-

 
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brownbronco

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Look into upgrading to a AOD trans. You will get at least 30% increase in milage due to the OD.

If you want full tilt - add EFI.

 

Crude dude

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Guy that I know in Phoenix has done a Cummins inline 4 cylinder conversion on his EB. It was in a Diesel Power magazine about 3 months ago? Look him up if you want . Custom Data Engineering in Phoenix, Arizona. His name is Chaz. He said it is out of a bread truck and makes gobs of power. If you have the time and money, why not?

 
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Orangecrush

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Guy that I know in Phoenix has done a Cummins inline 4 cylinder conversion on his EB. It was in a Diesel Power magazine about 3 months ago? Look him up if you want . Custom Data Engineering in Phoenix, Arizona. His name is Chaz. He said it is out of a bread truck and makes gobs of power. If you have the time and money, why not?
Yep, the little research I've done says get a 4bt, 4 cylinder, 3.9 liter diesel by Cummins. These are out of bread trucks. They produce 120-140 hp and 300ft/lb+ of torque while getting 30 MPG!! The trick is matching it to the AOD tranny and the transfer case (mine's stock dana 20). Diesel is the way to go. So much smarter than gas. Maybe I'll do it. The budget will be $7k-$9k.

 

STLKIKN

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If I can recall correctly... (and I wasn't really paying too much attention...)

The 4BT comes attached to a 700R4, there is an adaptor from the 700 to a Dana 20 available from Advance Adapters.

That would take care of the driveline parts... I know there has been more writtten on this subject over at classicbroncos.com

Good luck with your research, let us know how it all comes together.

 
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Broncobill78

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Okay, I'm done with the 7 mpg wonder. I've decided to sell it, or otherwise drop in something more fuel efficient (yea, I know the cost of doing this will be hard to recoup; but, I can't drive around in something that costs $.50 per mile).
Anyone know if this has been done? The objective is reasonable power and an emphasis on economy. I'd love to get 25+ mpg! As long as I'm generating say 175 hp and maybe 250 ft/lb of torque, I'm happy. It's the mpg that matters.

I'd like to keep the C4 tranny, but don't know if any diesel will bolt up? If not, what engine/tranny combo? What other problems will come up considering I have power steering and a/c?

Thanks!
Just how married are you to the idea of a diesel ? The HP & torque numbers you're looking for are dead on for the 6-cyl 300. The early (65'-72') 300's were running 170hp & 280lbs of torque. Granted you'd be hard pressed to see 30mpg from it but you should easily get mid-20's. For the difference in MPG I think you'd be a lot better off with the 300. It'll take a LONG time to recoup the cost of a diesel conversion when you're only getting 5 or 6 more miles than a 300 would give you. The 300 is a no-brainer swap, all the parts are easily found and cheap as dirt, same goes for the engine itself. Find you a late model fuelie engine and that's a slick little ride.

The suggestion to ditch the C4 for an AOD was a good one. That overdrive makes a HUGE difference in your bottom line and it won't be hard at *all* find an injected 300/AOD combo at any junkyard or in a cheapo parts truck. You can swap the 300/AOD in for probably half of what a diesel will cost you and that combo *will* get you to 30mpg.

It's just my opinion, but give it some thought.

 
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Orangecrush

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Just how married are you to the idea of a diesel ? The HP & torque numbers you're looking for are dead on for the 6-cyl 300. The early (65'-72') 300's were running 170hp & 280lbs of torque. Granted you'd be hard pressed to see 30mpg from it but you should easily get mid-20's. For the difference in MPG I think you'd be a lot better off with the 300. It'll take a LONG time to recoup the cost of a diesel conversion when you're only getting 5 or 6 more miles than a 300 would give you. The 300 is a no-brainer swap, all the parts are easily found and cheap as dirt, same goes for the engine itself. Find you a late model fuelie engine and that's a slick little ride.
The suggestion to ditch the C4 for an AOD was a good one. That overdrive makes a HUGE difference in your bottom line and it won't be hard at *all* find an injected 300/AOD combo at any junkyard or in a cheapo parts truck. You can swap the 300/AOD in for probably half of what a diesel will cost you and that combo *will* get you to 30mpg.

It's just my opinion, but give it some thought.

Very good points from you and others! Thanks.

Diesel- More torque at lower revs; and therefore, better mileage. However, the cost of the deal is pretty high and also diesel is running $4.50/gallon in CA.

Stick with 351W but upgrade to AOD- I probably need to re-read some of the responses....but what tranny do I get? Just a basic "ford AOD"? Are there any other parts I need to purchase, such as anything to match it up to the transfer case. Pros- This is probably the best route, from just the numbers perspective. For one thing, it's cheap as the 351 stays put. Second, it probably goes from 9 mpg highway to 15? I can't imagine I'd get a double?? Finally, the resale value is kept intact by having a 351w under the hood instead of a 6 banger (but if gas gets really out of control, maybe the 6 banger becomes a good investment).

6- cyl 300 and AOD swap- Not a bad idea at all! Probably way cheaper than the diesel route. If I could pull 25+ mpg, and still have some reasonable torque, that would be very nice. The only downside would be the "stigma" of having a 6-cylinder. I guess, who cares? I do think it may be tough to sell a 6-cyl Bronco, but again, I'm not looking to sell. Help me with this- exactly what motor and trans should I be looking for to do this swap??

Thanks guys!

 
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Broncobill78

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Very good points from you and others! Thanks.
Diesel- More torque at lower revs; and therefore, better mileage. However, the cost of the deal is pretty high and also diesel is running $4.50/gallon in CA.

Stick with 351W but upgrade to AOD- I probably need to re-read some of the responses....but what tranny do I get? Just a basic "ford AOD"? Are there any other parts I need to purchase, such as anything to match it up to the transfer case. Pros- This is probably the best route, from just the numbers perspective. For one thing, it's cheap as the 351 stays put. Second, it probably goes from 9 mpg highway to 15? I can't imagine I'd get a double?? Finally, the resale value is kept intact by having a 351w under the hood instead of a 6 banger (but if gas gets really out of control, maybe the 6 banger becomes a good investment).

6- cyl 300 and AOD swap- Not a bad idea at all! Probably way cheaper than the diesel route. If I could pull 25+ mpg, and still have some reasonable torque, that would be very nice. The only downside would be the "stigma" of having a 6-cylinder. I guess, who cares? I do think it may be tough to sell a 6-cyl Bronco, but again, I'm not looking to sell. Help me with this- exactly what motor and trans should I be looking for to do this swap??

Thanks guys!
Ok, here's the deal.

a) The diesel swap will certainly have a high *WOW* factor but I'm getting the vibe that you're a cost conscious sort of guy and for the coinage you'll lay out to do this you'll just never recoup it in fuel savings. And while sure the diesel will give you respectable torque, I REALLY don't think you're going to get a 4-cyl deisel that will outgun your current 351 as far as torque goes., just not gonna happen without swapping in a turbo-diesel and whats *that* going to do to your budget ? Swaps like this are for guys with a whole lot of disposable income.

B ) Sticking with your current mill & swapping in an AOD is definately the cheapest route to increased milage. The AOD is a mechanical overdrive tranny so you won't need a computer to run it. If you go this route you have basically two choices, either find a donor tranny and install it or buy a rebuilt unit froma vendor like TCI and install that. Something froma vendor will already be rebuilt & upgraded so there shouldn't be any worries there, if you grab one from a donor make sure it's from an 88' or newer because those boxes incorperate all the upgrades Ford made in the valve bodies & such over the years, earlier trannys are weaker & more prone to failure. Now you can ALSO swap in something later like an AODE/E4OD but those are electronic OD trannys and you'll need an aftermarket stand-alone computer to make it work without the correct factory engine & computer.

c) the 300/AOD swap. The far & away CHEAPEST route to go with this one will be to snag a donor truck. You can get nickle & dimed to death buying all the little bull$hit parts like frame perches and accessory brackets. Just find a parts truck and buy it, you'll have everything you need and can probably part out what you don't to help recoup some of the investment. This option also gives you the option of using a later model electronic transmission since you'll also be swapping the fuelie engine, harness and computer so there's no reason to shy away from a late model electronic lock-up overdrive transmission that will give you the best possible milage and gearset. As far as chosing years, well that one depends. If you go the parts truck route you can grab just about anything and I'd take advantage of that fact to get a reasonably late model low milage machine with all the nice goodies. The real bitch with the electronic lock-up transmissions is that Ford piggybacked the transmission processor onto the engine computer so you really have to have the whole package for the tranny to work right unless you spring for an aftermarket stand-alone. Most places around the country you can find a nice parts truck for less than $2K or $3K and you can figure on getting maybe half of that back if it's a 4x4 and you part out what you don't use.

And just for $hits & giggles let me throw THIS idea out there. You're obviously a guy who appreciates the WOW factor in both his truck (which, if we can be honest here probably had a lot to do with your choice of an EB in the first place <grin>) AND with an engine swap. OK, so an I6/300 is a pretty mundane engine, you have the room under your hood to fit a newer modular motor. The 97' & newer F150's came with them and swapping in a modular would certainly give you a huge WOW factor on Saturday nights and out on the trail, on TOP of the fact that you'd be getting a *very* fuel effecient engine/tranny combo. The 97' F150 2-valve 4.6L V8's were rated at 248HP/284 torque, the 3-valve Explorer engines were 300Hp/320 torque and the 4-valves ran 302/318. Those numbers are for the 4.6, the 5.4 Lightning engines ran 380/450 but that's getting a little over the top. My point was that you could easily find a modular engined Explorer and swap the engine/tranny for a dramatic increase in milage and a KILLER engine compartment. Just something to kick around.

Dunno if that answered all your questions but it should give you a good start, lemme know if I missed anything you were particularly interested in.

 
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Orangecrush

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Ok, here's the deal.
a) The diesel swap will certainly have a high *WOW* factor but I'm getting the vibe that you're a cost conscious sort of guy and for the coinage you'll lay out to do this you'll just never recoup it in fuel savings. And while sure the diesel will give you respectable torque, I REALLY don't think you're going to get a 4-cyl deisel that will outgun your current 351 as far as torque goes., just not gonna happen without swapping in a turbo-diesel and whats *that* going to do to your budget ? Swaps like this are for guys with a whole lot of disposable income.

B ) Sticking with your current mill & swapping in an AOD is definately the cheapest route to increased milage. The AOD is a mechanical overdrive tranny so you won't need a computer to run it. If you go this route you have basically two choices, either find a donor tranny and install it or buy a rebuilt unit froma vendor like TCI and install that. Something froma vendor will already be rebuilt & upgraded so there shouldn't be any worries there, if you grab one from a donor make sure it's from an 88' or newer because those boxes incorperate all the upgrades Ford made in the valve bodies & such over the years, earlier trannys are weaker & more prone to failure. Now you can ALSO swap in something later like an AODE/E4OD but those are electronic OD trannys and you'll need an aftermarket stand-alone computer to make it work without the correct factory engine & computer.

c) the 300/AOD swap. The far & away CHEAPEST route to go with this one will be to snag a donor truck. You can get nickle & dimed to death buying all the little bull$hit parts like frame perches and accessory brackets. Just find a parts truck and buy it, you'll have everything you need and can probably part out what you don't to help recoup some of the investment. This option also gives you the option of using a later model electronic transmission since you'll also be swapping the fuelie engine, harness and computer so there's no reason to shy away from a late model electronic lock-up overdrive transmission that will give you the best possible milage and gearset. As far as chosing years, well that one depends. If you go the parts truck route you can grab just about anything and I'd take advantage of that fact to get a reasonably late model low milage machine with all the nice goodies. The real bitch with the electronic lock-up transmissions is that Ford piggybacked the transmission processor onto the engine computer so you really have to have the whole package for the tranny to work right unless you spring for an aftermarket stand-alone. Most places around the country you can find a nice parts truck for less than $2K or $3K and you can figure on getting maybe half of that back if it's a 4x4 and you part out what you don't use.

And just for $hits & giggles let me throw THIS idea out there. You're obviously a guy who appreciates the WOW factor in both his truck (which, if we can be honest here probably had a lot to do with your choice of an EB in the first place <grin>) AND with an engine swap. OK, so an I6/300 is a pretty mundane engine, you have the room under your hood to fit a newer modular motor. The 97' & newer F150's came with them and swapping in a modular would certainly give you a huge WOW factor on Saturday nights and out on the trail, on TOP of the fact that you'd be getting a *very* fuel effecient engine/tranny combo. The 97' F150 2-valve 4.6L V8's were rated at 248HP/284 torque, the 3-valve Explorer engines were 300Hp/320 torque and the 4-valves ran 302/318. Those numbers are for the 4.6, the 5.4 Lightning engines ran 380/450 but that's getting a little over the top. My point was that you could easily find a modular engined Explorer and swap the engine/tranny for a dramatic increase in milage and a KILLER engine compartment. Just something to kick around.

Dunno if that answered all your questions but it should give you a good start, lemme know if I missed anything you were particularly interested in.
You answered everything great. Thanks! Yea, I've already thrown fairly big cash at this truck. I paid $12k for it and have dumped another $25k for sure. So, I've got about $40k in a nice Bronco that gets 7-8 mpg average. I just feel dumb driving something like that. It was built to be something of an "on road" truck that it is really well done. I've seen better, but those guys dropped over $100k in theirs.....just crazy. I guess the point is, I'm a little cash conscious as I get older. I see no reason to dump money for no reason. Now, I really like the idea of a diesel, not because it's a smart investment (let's face it, how long will it take to recoup the $7k-$10k in engine upgrades?.......forever is the answer). It's just the cool factor and also 500 miles between fill ups. The 4bt probably is around 40% efficient. That's cool. Then, if resale is ever even a consideration, I would have to thing a really nice EB with the 4BT conversion, done and working, is going to be in big demand. Just a thought.

Okay, I guess I really need to give it some thought. The 6 banger sounds great, but then, I have a feeling it's going to cost me $6k by the time it's done (I don't install anything myself; so, it all goes to the builder who will charge me a ton regardless of what I'm doing). If I can find a guy who sort of sepcializes in the 4bt swaps (and I may have), I can buy the 4bt and trans (and adapter?) and send it directly to him.

Thanks a bunch!

 
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Broncobill78

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You answered everything great. Thanks! Yea, I've already thrown fairly big cash at this truck. I paid $12k for it and have dumped another $25k for sure. So, I've got about $40k in a nice Bronco that gets 7-8 mpg average. I just feel dumb driving something like that. It was built to be something of an "on road" truck that it is really well done. I've seen better, but those guys dropped over $100k in theirs.....just crazy. I guess the point is, I'm a little cash conscious as I get older. I see no reason to dump money for no reason. Now, I really like the idea of a diesel, not because it's a smart investment (let's face it, how long will it take to recoup the $7k-$10k in engine upgrades?.......forever is the answer). It's just the cool factor and also 500 miles between fill ups. The 4bt probably is around 40% efficient. That's cool. Then, if resale is ever even a consideration, I would have to thing a really nice EB with the 4BT conversion, done and working, is going to be in big demand. Just a thought.
Okay, I guess I really need to give it some thought. The 6 banger sounds great, but then, I have a feeling it's going to cost me $6k by the time it's done (I don't install anything myself; so, it all goes to the builder who will charge me a ton regardless of what I'm doing). If I can find a guy who sort of sepcializes in the 4bt swaps (and I may have), I can buy the 4bt and trans (and adapter?) and send it directly to him.

Thanks a bunch!

Oh, whoa, whoa there Hoss. If this is a builders job & you're writing checks for this then let's just stop & think things out for a moment. First off, let's just throw resale value right out the window. Trucks like these are labors of love built for the fun & enjoyment of the hobby and Nobody, but NOBODY ever recoups what they've invested (well, maybe you break even if you've done the work yourself but as soon as you involve a builder then just forget that $hit).

Now of you're going to hand it to someone and write a check for it then I would *STRONGLY* recommend going with a conversion to a 300 since that will minimize the ammount of fabrication needed. If you hand your guy a bolt-in project instead of a fab & weld project then you'll really see a difference when he's holding out his hand palm-up.

Hey, sure a diesel is cool when you pop the hood but if you're even THINKING about resale value then you really need to keep that 351. I absolutely promise you that you'll find a whole LOT more guys willing to shell out $15K for a cherry 351EB than you will for some dieselEB, that's just the way it is. Don't take MY word for it, go to the club meets & ask around. Your current 351 is the Big Dawg as far as resale value goes. Taking it out for a 4cyl diesel will only decrease the value *unless* you go for a turbo diesel conversion and I think the cost of that would give most of us a stroke. As a rule the EB crowd does NOT want to see some 4-cyl diesel, they like the whole bada$$ 351 idea and that's what they're willing to pay for. They figure out the whole milage thing AFTER they've bought the truck. Sure there will be a few guys out there who will appreciate the swap for what it is but if resale is a factor in your plans then hold your horses.

If you're looking to sell it anytime in the future then leave it alone or swap in the AOD but leave that 351 alone. If this is something you want for YOURSELF and you plan to keep it for your OWN enjoyment then do what you want and throw the $$$ at it. But really, swapping out the 351 for a diesel in order to sell it is really just stepping on your d*ck, and nobody wants to do that.

 
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rodsteal

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Diesel- More torque at lower revs; and therefore, better mileage. However, the cost of the deal is pretty high and also diesel is running $4.50/gallon in CA.

Where are you paying $4.50 a gallon for diesel in CA? I have three diesel trucks and a diesel daily driver and I live in OC CA and paid $3.52 a gallon yesterday to fill up here.

 
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Orangecrush

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Diesel- More torque at lower revs; and therefore, better mileage. However, the cost of the deal is pretty high and also diesel is running $4.50/gallon in CA.
Where are you paying $4.50 a gallon for diesel in CA? I have three diesel trucks and a diesel daily driver and I live in OC CA and paid $3.52 a gallon yesterday to fill up here.
I just saw diesel at $4.29 in Pasadena. That's a huge difference!

 

Broncobill78

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Wow, I guess it is worth driving to Orange County to save the extras money. $4.29 is astounding!!
Wow, those are some crazy prices for Diesel. Not being local I've got to ask just what kind of distance is involved here ? I just saw it for something like $3.19 yesterday. They're just whuppin you boys with the big stick aren't they ? Are we talking roughly a dollar a gallon difference for just how many miles apart ?

Quite honestly, at prices like that I'd take a LONG hard look at a gasoline I6 swap, but ****, I'm all the way out here next to Miami.

 

rodsteal

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Well, the deal here in Orange County is that their are three fuel stations on every other block, so if you don

 

Broncobill78

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Wow, that's a really good point. I hadn't thought about it until you posted that but fact is that I see a TON of crewcab PowerStrokes around here and 15yrs down the line there are going to be a whole BUNCH of worn out wrecks with bad-a$$ diesel drivetrains available. I can see a day when guys are ditching these things with destroyed interiors, metal-to-metal brakes & blown trannys that never had a fluid change for pocket change complete with turbo powerstrokes good for another 200K. You might just be ahead of the curve here.

But regardless of what *tomorrow* brings I'd still lean towards the I6 for today. Or at least a 5.0, AOD combo.

 

bigbluebronc

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Okay, I'm done with the 7 mpg wonder. I've decided to sell it, or otherwise drop in something more fuel efficient (yea, I know the cost of doing this will be hard to recoup; but, I can't drive around in something that costs $.50 per mile).
Anyone know if this has been done? The objective is reasonable power and an emphasis on economy. I'd love to get 25+ mpg! As long as I'm generating say 175 hp and maybe 250 ft/lb of torque, I'm happy. It's the mpg that matters.

I'd like to keep the C4 tranny, but don't know if any diesel will bolt up? If not, what engine/tranny combo? What other problems will come up considering I have power steering and a/c?

Thanks!
Good luck show us all how too do it! I am not going too **** out the duramax outa the work truck, but would like too see a 4 banger and a manual desiel in a bronco, I dont have a fuel meter or mile meter , but the hour meter and gas input say its cheaper then running the boat haha

 
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Orangecrush

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Well, I thought I found a local (LA) guy who could do the swap for me, plus I know what tranny and parts are needed to do the 4BT conversion. Unfortunately, the guy seems to have flaked. So, I'm back trying to find someone who will do the conversion. If it gets too tough, I may just overhaul the 351 (so many miles on it, I'm sure it's hurting fuel economy/efficiency) and drop the C4 in favor of AOD.

On the diesel price issue, that station must have been an odd ball or incorrect sign. I'm seeing it at other places for $3.79/gallon here in Pasadena. California's more expensive because they must sell "low sulfur" diesel (and gasoline too).

 

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