something strange when i changed my oil

[jsomedaysoon]

i went to change my oil on the 84 today and when i pulled the oil filter out expecting a gush of black nasty stuff, nothing came out. not one drop of anything. clean or dirty oil. the filter looked brand new. so i put the new filter on anyway and poured in a can of that silver engine restore stuff and it just sat there in the valve cover. it didnt disapear like it normally does. i'm not sure if i should continue to put more oil in or if i'm just waisting my money and should start taking things apart to see what theproblem is. i dont remember if i had oil pressure on the gauge before this because i just got it on the road like a week ago. i do know that when ever i drove it around the yard or up and down my street it ran fine. it didnt seem slugish at all for an 84. thanks as usual for any insite...

 

[vincendebbie]

i went to change my oil on the 84 today and when i pulled the oil filter out expecting a gush of black nasty stuff, nothing came out. not one drop of anything. clean or dirty oil. the filter looked brand new. so i put the new filter on anyway and poured in a can of that silver engine restore stuff and it just sat there in the valve cover. it didnt disapear like it normally does. i'm not sure if i should continue to put more oil in or if i'm just waisting my money and should start taking things apart to see what theproblem is. i dont remember if i had oil pressure on the gauge before this because i just got it on the road like a week ago. i do know that when ever i drove it around the yard or up and down my street it ran fine. it didnt seem slugish at all for an 84. thanks as usual for any insite...

Is this the first oil change you have done on the 84? Easiest thing to do is pull a valve cover and check for sludge. If it is sluged up then there are a few ways to break the sludge down or you can just pull the motor apart clean it and reseal it. If there is excessive sludge in the valve covers you may have the same on the oil pickup. Good luck. --Vince

 

[jsomedaysoon]

okay i decided to put the rest of the oil in there and it is seeping down now. its showing on the dipstick where it should and all. i think it does have alot of sludge though because when i pulled the dipstick you could even see some on that. its still kind of confusing me why the old oil filter was bone dry though. it was heavier than the new one so there was something in it but i've never seen anything like that. anyway i'm going to put it all back together and see what happens its been a long day.... almost everything i bought from advanced this morning was wrong! so i've made 3 trips back to the store today! haha i'm over it for today. if there is sludge on the pick up whats the procedure for getting rid of it?

 

[jsomedaysoon]

oh and yes this is the first oil change i've done on the 84 because i've only had if for a little over a month.

 

[Schroder's 84 Bronco]

oh and yes this is the first oil change i've done on the 84 because i've only had if for a little over a month.

I would try some "Sea Foam" put it in your oil and run it for a while then change it again. Sea foam cleans up all the gunk pretty good. Just my thoughts though.

 

[Seabronc]

Sea Foam, as good as it is, may help clean the system but if it is as clogged up with sludge as it sounds, you have to get that crap out. Sea Foam will wash more of it down into the pan and is better used as a maintenance product on a good engine to keep it clean. Not to be the barer of bad news, but be prepared, that 24 year old engine has a lot of wear and using a product like Sea Foam may clean it better than you want. In other words their are a lot of parts that have a glaze built up on them, like cylinder walls and other moving parts, and using a product that cleans all that stuff off can leave you, at best, with an oil burner. It has probably been nursed along for years using some sort of engine medic to quiet it down, stop lifter noise, etc.

If you pull the valve cover, (driver side is the easiest for just taking a look), you will probably find it caked with gritty crap and the drain hole nearly plugged. Rather than washing that stuff down into the oil pan along with the stuff that is already there, clear the drain hole and then plug it and clean out the crap around the lifters first. Also, you need to do something with the crap in the oil pan, ( not that easy of a job to remove but doable).

The lifter noise is probably from worn rocker arm ends and worn valve stem caps. You can change them including the lifters, rods and oil seals without removing the heads. If you decide to do that, I'll give you the procedure. However, the best thing for that engine though, is probably to yank it and do a rebuild or replace it with a long block. If you do decide to go that route, don't buy a re-manufactured block from one of the chain parts stores. Get it from a reputable re-builder.

Good luck,

>-

 

[vincendebbie]

ASE Certified Ford Mechanic here and I agree with Seabronc. Using a cleaner at this point is kind of point less. It will loosen stuff and drop it to the pan. Then the pickup will get clogged and you will have little to no oil pressure and burn something up. You can clean the everything out of the covers and drop the pan. The easiest way to drop the pan is to unbolt one motor mount (drivers is easiest) and jack up the motor a little then the pan will clear the pickup so that you can scrape all the gunk off. Me personally, I would yank the motor and simpley break it down and reseal it. If its the original motor send it out to a good builder to have it gone through and rebuilt. Sorry for all the bad news. Good luck. --Vince

 

[jsomedaysoon]

i will take the valve cover off just for curiosity to see but i dont think its bad enough yet to need a complete rebuild. the oil presure gauge jumps right up when you start the truck and honestly it runs stronger and quieter than any old ford i've been in. something is obviously wrong though if nothing is making it to the oil filter. i guess i'll just see what i find when i pull the valve cover and go from there. i do have a 351 i could swap it with but it also needs a rebuild.

 

[vincendebbie]

Build the 351 and throw it in. You will be happier with that. I have a 94 with a 351 carbed and love it. Though I am taking the motor and tranny out to put into my 93 XLT. You may be lucky enough to just change the oil once a week for a while and get the sludge out. I know us old schoolers use to put a quarter of a quart of tranny fluid in with the oil to clean it out. The tranny fluid has a cleaning agent and helps to break down the sludge. It will make the motor smoke a little cause it gets past the rings but once you change it the smoke clears up. Again good luck. --Vince

 

[Seabronc]

Also, don't get fooled by that oil pressure. You can have a great oil pressure reading and very little flow if the channels leaving the oil filter are restricted. That will give a great oil pressure reading because the pressure sender is right after the pump but before a possible restriction. Not that this is true in your case, but your system is indicating problems so don't just ignore it because the pressure gauge is reading fine.

The reason I'm cautioning you on this is, that great oil pressure is not common on old Ford engines. They usually need help to keep it up, especially after the engine gets up to temp and the oil thins out. That is where the 20W50 plus a quart of Lucas comes in to nurse an aging engine along for a year or two while finding a replacement or the funds to replace it. In your case, since you already have one in hand, I'd go for the 351 swap. As previously suggested redo that one first while you nurse this one along.

Good luck,

>-

 

[jsomedaysoon]

understood, i just spoke to an old tow truck driver thats been in this area for a long time and builds all kinds of trucks and mud buggies and he says that there arent really any reputable shops around here. he was naming off this and that guy that do it in there garage but anyway... what do i look for in a shop and what am i asking them when i call? he was also saying something about the flywheel's not being the same between a 351 and a 302. whats the deal with that? will i be able to use my current trans or should i try to pull the one from the donor truck ( 84 clubwagon van)

 

[Seabronc]

understood, i just spoke to an old tow truck driver thats been in this area for a long time and builds all kinds of trucks and mud buggies and he says that there arent really any reputable shops around here. he was naming off this and that guy that do it in there garage but anyway... what do i look for in a shop and what am i asking them when i call? he was also saying something about the flywheel's not being the same between a 351 and a 302. whats the deal with that? will i be able to use my current trans or should i try to pull the one from the donor truck ( 84 clubwagon van)

I'm not sure if that was only his opinion or there are no shops. Well if there are none in your area, then whoever you talk to, ask for some references from people they have done a similar job for and if they warranty their work. Again I'm not sure what that guy was saying, was he talking about backyard mechanics or guys that own gas stations and do it there? In any event, if a guy is proud of his work he shouldn't have any problem giving you references.

Another option is doing it yourself excluding the machining work and there you will probably be able to find a machine shop that can do it.

The fly wheel is not a problem as long as the one on the 351 is OK and you use the starter from the 351. The transmission should bolt right up with no problem. Both have the same bolt pattern.

>-

 

[jsomedaysoon]

nice... and i'm not sure if thats his opinion or not. i do know that there are only two machine shops around here. i've heard bad things about one and the other is a joke. i dont mind going up to the chesepeke area which is like an hour from here. its a big city so there has to be one there i just dont know exactly what i'm supposed to ask them when i call. do i just ask if they can rebuild a motor and they'll know what i'm talking about? what kind of prices can i expect just so i know that the shop i call is on par?