NEW IGNITION PARTS - GETTING FUEL - WILL NOT FIRE UP

[Old-Ford-Fan]

Hello Everyone,

I just joined the forums tonight and am in serious need of advice. I have been reading the postings for some time and have learned a lot. I am stuck on this one though. I have a great 1975 Bronco that is pretty much standard, uncut and has not had anything added or taken away from the engine and tranny. It is a Factory Automatic, 302, Factory A/C, Power Steering. . . A great old Bronc. It ran and drove like a dream until one day I stopped at the marina for a minute, got back in and it would not start. It would turn over, but would not crank and run. It would not even begin to start or crank. It just turns over when you turn the key.

It is getting fuel and the fuel is fresh. I have poured fuel down the carburater, it will not fire even to burn off the fuel in the bowl. Gas tank is clean, fuel lines flushed, new fuel filter, fuel pump working, you can see the fuel shooting into the carburater. Still NO starting or cranking and running at all.

I then moved on to the Fire aspect. I have replaced:

1. Ignition Coil (Twice) 2. Ignition Module 3. Starter Solonoid (3 Times) 4. Spark Plugs 5. Rotor

The distributer cap and wires are all relatively new and look good.

I had a flashback to my younger days yesterday and remembered to check and see if there was any fire coming from the coil going into the distributer cap. I did this by removing the coil wire from the distributer cap, holding it close and having the key turned. There was NO arch / spark at all when the engine turned over. I pulled a plug wire on each side and checked them. NO spark from the wire to the plugs or any metal when the engine is turning over. So, now I am at a complete loss!!!

The solonoid switch wants to stick every third or fourth try and the engine will continue to turn over when the key is turned off, so I have to tap on the solonoid, or disconnect the negative battery teminal to stop it. As I said, I'm on my third solonoid and second new ignition coil. The half moon shape clip that fits over the coil with the POS / NEG wire fittings clips on the coil just fine and seems snug, but I just can not get fire to the plugs to get the engine to crank! I have checked the wires as best I can visually.

Can the Voltage Regulater cause something like this??? Or it most likely a wiring issue?

Please help me out. I am at a loss at this point and will GREATLY APPRECIATE ANY HELP OR ADVICE!!! I can not bear the embarassment of having the Old Girl towed into the shop to be fixed. It was bad enough having her towed home!

Many Thanks In Advance!!!!

Dan

1975 Half Cab Built in 1974 - 72,000 Original Miles

302, Automatic, Power Steering, A/C (Interior Blower Removed)

Uncut Fender Wells , Duel Exhaust, Factor Style 2BBl Carb

 

[Rons beast]

Hey O-F-F,

Welcome,

It sounds like you may have a problem with the ignition switch, or the wiring to/ from it.

First connect a 12V test light between the + and - posts of the coil. have someone crank / turn over ( it's the same thing) the engine. The light should flash as the distributer turns and sends a signal to trigger the coil. If there is no light, check if you have voltage at the + terminal of the Ign. coil, ( with the key in the run position.)

If you do not there is the problem. I do not have a wiring diagram for the 74/75, but the 1980 calls for that wire to be red/green. (Maybe one of the other people here can check and be sure of that)

It can very possibly be the ignition switch is failing, and is the cause of the starter run on and no power to the coil.

If you have power at the + coil terminal and the test light does not flash, you have a problem with the trigger signal from the dist.

I have encountered where the dist. gear broke from the shaft and the dist. was not turning. Just pull the cap and check that to be sure. All the wiring in your Bronc is almost 40 years old...check it closely.

Do all these checks and get back to us with the results

 

[Bully Bob]

Hi Dan..., welcome..!!

First, congratulations on one of the best post/questions I've seen. A full & complete discription..!!

"Can the Voltage Regulator cause something like this???"

NO.

"Or is it most likely a wiring issue?"

Yes.

You can turn the key to the "on" position & use a volt meter to check for voltage at the + pole on the coil.

If there's no voltage there, that's your problem.

----if you have no volt meter----

A test would be to run a temporary jumper wire from the battery + to the coil + ..., Then turn key to "start" as usual. If it starts or trys to start, just remove the jumper to stop it. (be ready to pull off the batt. cable if starter sticks on with eng. runn'n)

The problem would likely be a loose/bad wire, or maybe a faulty key switch.

With the solenoid sticking, I would guess the key switch is failing to turn on the ignition circuit AND not disconnecting the solenoid/starter when the key is released. (Just a 1st. guess)

Let us know what you find... >< <'>

B

 

[Old-Ford-Fan]

I WILL GO CHECK AND REPORT BACK ASAP!!! YOU GUYS ARE ABSOLUTELY AMAZING AND I CANNOT THANK YOU ENOUGH!!!

- Dan

 

[Old-Ford-Fan]

Alright, My Friends. Here is the latest. I did exactly as you said. I created a jumper wire between the Positive battery terminal and the Positive Ignitioon Coil. With the key in the ON position it instantly tried to crank as soon as I touched the POS terminal and the starter stuck, so I had to pull the NEG terminal. With the key/ignition switch in the OFF position it started turning over when I touched the wire to the battery and the starter disengaged when I took the wire away from the POS terminal. So, I poured some fuel down the carb and tried it again. I turned it over a few times and nothing happened so I took the wire off the terminal and IT FIRED as if it was about to start. So, I touched the wire to the terminal again and once again it turned over and did not FIRE AT ALL until the instant I put the wire back on the terminal. Just to check, I put the key/ignition inthe ACC Position to see if anything different happened. When I touched the wire to the terminal, it once again turned over, but did not fire at all until I pulled the wire away, but did not crank or run, just fired for an instant. I did this a number of times after adding more fuel. I then turned it over while working the throttle on the carburater and holding the throttle wide open. Still it did not even show any signs of life until I pulled the wire away. It definitely looks like we are getting somewhere now!!! What is my next step??? Once again, MANY, MANY THANKS!!!!

Dan / O-F-F

 

[Old-Ford-Fan]

I'M SORRY. It does not TURN OVER/ FIRE until I take the jumper AWAY from the POS terminal. I made a mistake and said it did not fire until I put it back on the terminal.

 

[Rons beast]

Hey Dan,

Thanks for the nice words. For clarity, "turn over", and "crank" relate to and describe the action of the starter spinning the engine.

"fire" relates to the engine actually starting and running under it's own power.

Now... Have you checked if there is voltage at the + terminal with the key in the run position?

Have you checked with a test light for a flashing during cranking to see if the distributer is sending a signal to the coil?

Knowing this info tells us if the coil is getting a signal, and if it's getting the voltage it needs to build spark.

( For a coil to work it needs voltage input on the + side and a ground on the - side. This produces a magnetic field in the coil. When the groung is broken, the magnetic field colapses, and the voltage is greatly increased. This high voltage searches for an outlet to ground. The path it takes, ( path of least resistance) is through the high voltage wire to the distributer, and then to whatever plug wire is indexed and ends at the spark plug producing the spark.)

When you say the engine "fires" when you take the + wire away, what you are doing is colapsing the magnetic field and making the coil deliver a high voltage spark. ( your coil is probably good...not the problem.) BUT we still don't know if the distributer is sending a signal to the coil or not. Let's find that out.

I still think your problem is in wiring or the ignition switch, BUT, we need to do organized trouble shooting.

While you are at it get under the dsah and take a good look at the ingition switch at the base of the steering column. Look for chafed, loose or melted wires. Does the switch look damaged? any black marks, or anything melted?

Try what I suggested, without a jumper wire and what you see under the dash, and report the results.

Good Luck

 

[Bully Bob]

What Ron says.., absolutly the dizzy, the module, (assuming it still has the "Duraspark" ignition system) wiring & key switch are all suspect.

Inside the dizzy is a stator. They rarely fail but it can happen.

The (early) "duraspark" ignition has a history of module failure if I'm not mistaking. (Auto Parts can test the module for you...free)

The key switch normally fails internally (rotating contacts) & the fact that you keep changing the solenoid & the continuous sticking, resulting in the same results.., makes me very suspicious of the switch.

Side note.., the solenoid was never involved in the "not starting" issue.

As Ron says., checking the dizzy for proper function is in order.

 

[Old-Ford-Fan]

Hi Ron and Bob,

Many thanks for the help. I will get back to it tomorrow and let you know what happens. I will try to get my terminology correct because I want to make sure you all completely understand what I am dealing with. I guess I was trying to say it was Cranking when I used the jump wire and it would Fire for a split second when I removed it. It has a new Igition Module and the one on it was a Duraspark! The iginition coil looked to be the original as well. I will dig out my testers and lights tomorrow and let you all know ASAP. Hope you two have a great evening and I will be in touch soon! Your advice is greatly appreciated.

Dan / O-F-F

 

[Seabronc]

Just to stick my .02 in here, lots of good advice so far. What I haven't heard mentioned is the pickup coil inside the distributor. Duraspark ignitions are famous for that. Bully Bob I believe may have been referring to that module and not the one mounted on the wheel well. Here is a procedure for Duraspark ignitions to determine if the problem is the module on the wheel well or the pick up coil in the distributor.

This is from the 83 EVTM, but the Duraspark is the same. Pages 1 - 4 Good general information, pages 18 & 19 Circuit diagram, pages 23 - 26 Troubleshooting procedure. Just ignore the connector designations, they probably don't have the same numbers in your truck. However, the system works the same. You can print these pages to take with you or just carry your laptop, if you have one, out to the truck.

Good luck,

 

[Bully Bob]

OOPS..!

That's right, my bad, the module was replaced. :-B That brings up another point.

Any parts replaced, that did not solve a problem, can be labeled & placed in a "spare parts" box.

This can come in handy.., especially with some "new" parts these days failing prematurely.

A side note there would be to purchase any parts that can get you stuck on the trail from a "quality" parts store, or one of our EB Specific stores. Try to steer clear of any Chineeee stuff..!! :wacko:

 

[Rons beast]

Hey guys,

That was my reason for the old "flashing testlight" trick. The module had been replaced. If the dizy isn't sending a signal to the coil, that leaves the pickupcoil or related wiring.

I have a feeling there may be other issues here as well since the starter is said to stick.

I would really like to know if the coil is getting 12v in the run position.

This has now become a quest....hope Dan gets back to it soon. lol.

 

[Bully Bob]

How funny., & ya, we're all on the same page here.

And we know this issue comes up approx. ev. two weeks.

-------a statment for the non-members, post followers------

Fortunately there's only a few components to these types of problems.

Battery, solenoid, wires, key-switch, coil, module, dizzy, starter..., & sometimes the timing chain/gears.

We can buy several components, change them out & the problem goes away.., but, we don't know what component was faulty. (I, for one, can't stand not knowing, & this can be expensive)

That's where these tests help eliminate the good parts & find the faulty one(s)---(& a whole lot cheaper)

I'm guessing Dan is busy with some testing of his own (we'll soon know).... >< <'>

 

[Old-Ford-Fan]

HELLO RON AND BOB AND EVERYONE!!! I am VERY SORRY to have just disappeared on you fellas. I have been out of town on emergency leave taking care of a very sick parent. Then I had to just now rush back into town to help take care of a very sick child!!! My son has Mono, but he is doing Ok. I haven't had the chance to read any of the postings since I last commented, but I will read them and get back to my Bronco ASAP and let you all know what I find. I am going to order an ignition switch and start work on that . . . I think. Depends on what you all wrote for me. YOU ALL ARE WONDERFUL and words cannot describe how much I appreciate all of you helping me so much. I hope to get to the Bronco in the next day or two, the weather is awful hear today. Once again THANK YOU ALL VERY VERY MUCH and I will be back in touch soon!!! Very Merry Christmas, THANK YOU and you will hear from me again ASAP!!!!

 

[Old-Ford-Fan]

Man, its depressing. My Bronco looks so sick and sad and negleccted. We gotta get her back on the streets. . .

- Dan

 

[Bully Bob]

No problem.., we know there's more to life than Broncos.! (I think)

---Family first---

We'll be here..........

 

[Rons beast]

Hey Dan,

Take care of the ones you love....then you can get to the things you love that have wheels.

I had mono as a teen myself.....took some time but I recovered.

Best wishes and positive energy for the holidays and the new year.