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BEEVO

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Has anyone ran longtube headers without taking a emmission controls off,aka ran them completly no check engine ligts and without removing the egr valve. also if i want to run a cam is there any out there that dont need a retune or computer flash. I'm planning on replacing my rocker arm and valve springs due to a anoying tick so i thought this would be the opportunity to change cams.

vehicle specs

95 eddie

5.0

e40d transmission

soon to install my six inch and 37's

 

Broncobill78

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As long as you retain all your hardware you should be fine. The only issue I can think of *might* be the O2 sensor. I know some of them are sensitive to changes in the length of the wiring harness because they work by sensing the voltage/amperage (not sure which) and comparing it to a map in the memory. when you change the length of the wire you change the voltage slightly and it no longer maps. I really don't know if this will be a problem with your truck or not, just throwing it out there as a possibility.

For the cam you'll want something designed from the start to work with your computer. The OBDII computers are a lot more forgiving when it comes to this but you have the EECIV and have to work with whatcha got. The Ford SVT E303 or B303 might work & I'd also look at the the compucam line of cams from Crane.

There's a good chance that the annoying tick you're hearing is actually a lifter. Changing springs & rocker arms won't make a difference all by themselves but if you're changing cams then you're also changing lifters and that should solve the problem.

 
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BEEVO

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As long as you retain all your hardware you should be fine. The only issue I can think of *might* be the O2 sensor. I know some of them are sensitive to changes in the length of the wiring harness because they work by sensing the voltage/amperage (not sure which) and comparing it to a map in the memory. when you change the length of the wire you change the voltage slightly and it no longer maps. I really don't know if this will be a problem with your truck or not, just throwing it out there as a possibility.
For the cam you'll want something designed from the start to work with your computer. The OBDII computers are a lot more forgiving when it comes to this but you have the EECIV and have to work with whatcha got. The Ford SVT E303 or B303 might work & I'd also look at the the compucam line of cams from Crane.

There's a good chance that the annoying tick you're hearing is actually a lifter. Changing springs & rocker arms won't make a difference all by themselves but if you're changing cams then you're also changing lifters and that should solve the problem.
i thought about putting the first o2 sensor as close to stock as i can so i wouldnt have to lengthen it.plus arent the e303 and b303 cams.... roller cams, instead of flat tapped? and is there anyone here who has ran a cam either of these or the comp cams that are designed for this computer without major head aches and check engines lights. I'm not about hacking this baby apart and ruining a bronco.

 

Broncobill78

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Damn, ya got me :) /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> you're right the SVT cams *are* rollers, sorry, my bad. To be honest I've never screwed around with a late model EFI computer engine (not one of my own anyways). I bought custom ground Erson's for both my big blocks (they run about 20% more than something off the shelf but every builder I spoke with assured me it was money well spent, might be worth a phone call or Email to see if they offer them for computer trucks, don't see why they wouldn't). I'd still ck out the compucams though, I have a few friends in the Go-Fast crowd who swear by them. The only small block I've built was for my 86', that was a carb'd non-computer engine and the freaking thing fell thru the ice on a lake while I was still sorting the engine out. Hang tight, I'm for sure someone else here has done it and will have some advise.

 
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I herd of a guy who didit with a 95 and dident have a problem o and you can go to your autoparts store and look at there 02 sensor some have longer wires than others. Cant you just take your truck to a good local shop and get them to tweeek the cpu after you did your mods. Theres a guy who did it for me because my cam was to much for the cpu and he had to do all kinds of stuff to get it straightened out but it ran like a ***** ape afterwards only thing 10 mpg <_<

 
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I herd of a guy who didit with a 95 and dident have a problem o and you can go to your autoparts store and look at there 02 sensor some have longer wires than others. Cant you just take your truck to a good local shop and get them to tweeek the cpu after you did your mods. Theres a guy who did it for me because my cam was to much for the cpu and he had to do all kinds of stuff to get it straightened out but it ran like a ***** ape afterwards only thing 10 mpg <_<
i just want it done right i'm not running the cam for really any other reason than the lower torque gains and uupper rpm power when i play a lil and get on a highway with a boat or trailer.

 
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BEEVO

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By the way if it helps i beleave my motor came factory with MAF instead of speed density, before the intake box there is a sensor just like my 93 5.0 had .how much help is MAF over SD for running cams and other performance mods and how can i be for sure it is a mass air flow sensor.

 
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sorry to post so many times but maybe this will help varify its metal next to the air box has a plug ontop and says air flow on the sensor pointing to the intake.

 

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Ford used speed density on the 86,87 & 88's. Mass Air is much better about accepting engine modifications that change it's airflow characteristics because it actually measures the volume of air going thru the engine. Speed density has problems with this because it can't measure airflow so it has to keep referring back to preprogramed maps in it's memory and when the info from the sensors doesn't match the maps in it's memory it goes a little nuts trying to set things right & that usually causes drivability problems. Some basic info sometimes helps:

Once upon a time an engine needed three things to run: fuel, air, and fire. That's what carbs, coils, and distributors are for. Modern EFI engines still need these three elements, but they use different hardware to provide them, and a computer to run the whole process.

Today's electronic engine management systems can process millions of instructions per second to continuously adjust spark and fuel for optimum performance. The computer regulates the electronic fuel-injector pulse width (the time that the fuel injector is open) and ignition lead with input from various sensors. One of the key things the computer needs to know is how much air the engine consumes under a given set of conditions. Three different measurement strategies have evolved to supply the computer with this basic information; in order of sophistication they are: N Alpha, Speed Density, and Mass Flow metering.

N Alpha

A relatively simple design, N Alpha systems use only engine speed and throttle angle to calculate the amount of fuel needed by the engine. This system doesn't measure airflow directly; instead, engine load is assumed based on throttle-angle versus engine rpm. The various load-rpm points make up the computer's lookup table, with the amount of fuel needed at each point manually programmed by the tuner. N Alpha systems work well on engines that operate primarily at wide-open throttle such as race cars but are much less accurate at part-throttle than more sophisticated systems because of their relatively simple fuel map. They generally do not have a closed-loop mode for air/fuel correction, resulting in part-throttle calibration that is crude at best when compared to other systems. This also makes them incompatible with modern catalytic converters. Any significant engine change requires remapping.

Speed Density

Speed Density systems accept input from sensors that measure engine speed (in rpm) and load (manifold vacuum in kPa), then the computer calculates airflow requirements by referring to a much larger (in comparison to an N Alpha system) preprogrammed lookup table, a map of thousands of values that equates to the engine's volumetric efficiency (VE) under varying conditions of throttle position and engine speed. Engine rpm is provided via a tach signal, while vacuum is transmitted via an intake manifold-mounted Manifold Air Pressure (MAP) sensor. Since air density changes with air temperature, an intake manifold-mounted sensor is also used.

Production-based Speed Density computers also utilize an oxygen (O2) sensor mounted in the exhaust tract. The computer looks at the air/fuel ratio from the O2 sensor and corrects the fuel delivery for any errors. This helps compensate for wear and tear and production variables. Other sensors on a typical Speed Density system usually include an idle-air control motor to help regulate idle speed, a throttle-position sensor that transmits the percentage of throttle opening, a coolant-temperature sensor, and a knock sensor as a final fail-safe that hears detonation so the computer can ****** timing as needed

All 86-’87 and 88 non-California Ford 5.0L-** engines used Speed Density metering.

Because a Speed Density system still has no sensors that directly measure engine airflow, all the fuel mapping points must be preprogrammed, so any significant change to the engine that alters its VE requires reprogramming the computer.

Mass Flow

By contrast, Mass Air Flow (MAF) systems use a sensor mounted in front of the throttle body that directly measures the amount of air inducted into the engine. The most common type of mass-flow sensor is the hot wire design: Air flows past a heated wire that's part of a circuit that measures electrical current. Current flowing through the wire heats it to a temperature that is always held above the inlet air temperature by a fixed amount. Air flowing across the wire draws away some of the heat, so an increase in current flow is required to maintain its fixed temperature. The amount of current needed to heat the wire is proportional to the mass of air flowing across the wire. The mass-air meter also includes a temperature sensor that provides a correction for intake air temperature so the output signal is not affected by it.

The MAF sensor's circuitry converts the current reading into a voltage signal for the computer, which in turn equates the voltage value to mass flow. Typical MAF systems also use additional sensors similar to those found in Speed Density systems. Once the electronic control module (ECM) knows the amount of air entering the engine, it looks at these other sensors to determine the engine's current state of operation (idle, acceleration, cruise, deceleration, operating temperature, and so on), then refers to an electronic map to find the appropriate air/fuel ratio and select the fuel-injector pulse width required to match the input signals.

Ford has used MAF metering on 88 California 5.0L engines and all 89-and-later V-8 engines.

MAF systems are much more flexible in their ability to compensate for engine changes since they actually measure airflow instead of computing it based on preprogrammed assumptions. They are self-compensating for most reasonable upgrades, as well as extremely accurate under low-speed, part-throttle operation. On the other hand, the MAF meter, mounted as it is ahead of the throttle-body, can become an airflow restriction on high-horsepower engines. On nonstock engine retrofits or EFI conversions on engines never produced with fuel injection, it may be hard to package an MAF meter within the confines of the engine bay and available intake manifolding.

Which Is Best?

In a perfect world, virtually all street-performance engines would use Mass Air, due to its superior accuracy and greater tolerance for engine changes.

One more thing, adding the truck info to your signature is helpful because it shows up automatically in every post.

 
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BEEVO

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thanks for the sig info this is my first 4x4 i'm the previous owner of a 5.0 stang with a 331 stroker running a duel stage but the car ran on a custom chip and stand alone my second car was a 95 integra which was a track car running 9's on a lil over 40 pounds of boost so now i'm trying to work with keeping this thing a mean daily without destroying or hacking it i cant stand ruining vehicles. my teg rest in peace is gone to as i sold it to a punk 22 year old who was racing a porsche carra and rapped himself around a bridge pole!!! i cried just seeing so much time and research gone to his ass. so with MAF running a compu cam by crane would be resonable i assume i'm planning on doing push rods, lifters, valve springs, and rocker arms, and maybe timing chain with this. i had a compression test done and the motor is still strong as **** i cant stand the annoying tick anymore so i decided to go the 9 yards with it. i want closely to a rough 300 hp just any suggestions on a strong mild cam that will work great for this goal.

 

Broncobill78

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No, I can't suggest any particular grind that would/wouldn't work but just call the tech support guys at Crane or Erson or whoever and talk about it with them. I'm sure they'll have something off the shelf that will work. I suspect that within a certain range you can get a cam that will work just fine without reflashing or changing the chip you have. Anything above a certain amount of lift & duration will probably need that but Mass Air is pretty forgiving (because it actually measures engine airflow and adjusts fuel & spark accordingly) and should accept a pretty wide range of cams before the PCM requires any mods. I honestly don't know if you can get 300 from *just* a cam & valvetrain without changing the intake/throttle body but I'd think that if you can't get to 300 you should be able to get pretty close. Swapping cams *and* adding headers would probably score you 300.

 
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BEEVO

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the plan is full length headers, cam and valve train replacing, upper and lower intake spacer, and also a shift kit. i'll be upgrading to dana 50 axels to handle the 37's and 4.56 gears

 

Broncobill78

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Longtubes are a good choice for lowend torque, but I'm gonna have to rain on your parade as far as the D50 upgrade goes. I had posted something on this a little while back but I think it got lost in all the clutter:

http://broncozone.com/forums/index.php?sho...ront+clip\

Unfortunately the D50 deal isn't really an option. The axle arms/beams (can't really call them tubes) are a different length than the D44's so the inner shafts are different lengths, the D50 uses a larger U-joint that I don't think will fit thru the D44 knuckles. You can't swap knuckles either because the ball-joint spacing is different (something like 1/2" to 3/4") and the spindle bolt pattern is different. You could try swapping the whole axle but since the beams are different lengths the pivot points aren't the same so it wouldn't be a bolt-in. You can't swap in the 8-lug D44HD knuckles either because they use the same spacing as the D50's.

Near as I can tell there really isn't *any* way to upgrade the D44IFS axle shafts to anything stronger. Nobody makes moly shafts for it & the D50 stuff just doesn't work so you're stuck with either custom shafts (replace the word "custom" with "wicked expensive") or a D60 swap. If you swap out your 8.8 for a D60 and want the 8-lug pattern all around then you CAN change out the D44 knuckles for Brand-X parts. Here's a good write-up on that if you're interested:

http://www.off-road.com/trucks4x4/article/...l.jsp?id=198393

 
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BEEVO

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thanks for the heads up before i made a expensive mistake!

 
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ok i'm bringing this bac up cause i got a few more questions i was told by a knowleable exhust builder up here i could run the o2 sensors in one pipe and not trip a check engine light. TWO questions for longtube headers? do they make a o2 extension kit for the first o2 sensor like the mustangs for a bronco or would the mustang kit work for the bronco, and two if a buy a cat with a air inlet tube can i run the egr line up to that instead of the tube in the y pipe thats the stock design? and well lol i got one more i guess can a custom y pipe flow just as good as tru deuls or does tru duels out do the y pipe design entirely

sorry for the typos my key board is playing catch up with my typing!

 

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