Lift Q's?

[jboates]

I have a '90 Bronco and would like to get a lift on it sometime in the near future. I am probably going to go with lower gears before the lift so I can actually move the beast around after the lift.

Onto my question.... I am not going to do any serious off roading, just trail riding, muddin', mild hill climbing, and things like that. No baja racing. (too much money if I break something) I'm wondering if it's worth it (for me) to go with a lift kit with extended radius arms, leafs instead of blocks, etc. Some kits I see (6") are around $500-$600. Other kits that have the ext. radius arms and whatnot are around $1100-$1300

(And what is a shackle flip? Also what's the benefit?)

I also want something that is very reliable and will not fall apart either. Based on what I will be doing, what do you experts think would be right for me?

- jboates

 

[Justshootme84]

Yes, I think it's hard to justify spending $3,000 on a lift kit, new tires and gears on a rig that may not be worth much more than that. IF your Bronco is in good condition and you plan to keep it for years to come, then I would really consider doing a straight-axle swap (SAS) for the front. You don't need to buy the $1700 conversion kit, but it will cost you a few hundred for the donor axle and require some fabrication. Take a look at the "SAS" forum over at www.fullsizebronco.com for a ton of great info.

Assuming you decide to keep the stock front axle and get a suspension lift for it, I would suggest building it right from the beginning and getting a kit with all of the options. The way the front end of the Bronco is designed, it does not take well to lifting. YES, you can get by with the basic $500 kit, but you may have more problems with alignment. THe extended radius arms will give you better wheel travel over the short, stock arms and help restore the camber of the front axle. Lifted rear springs will help reduce the axle wrap that you get with stock springs and lift blocks. I have never done a "shacke flip", but it basically lowers the mounting points for the stock leaf springs to obtain lift.

On my 84 Bronco, I have a Skyjacker Class II 6" suspension lift kit. I still plan on doing the SAS on the front in the future. That will depend on how quickly I break something on the stock front axle, like an axle u-joint or shaft.

 

[jboates]

thanks a lot man. that's a lot of good info. I do plan on keeping this for quite some time (maybe one day...with lots of money...I'll have a sweet trailer queen and another for off-roadin') but I might just lower the gears first, then get a good lift and tires, cry because of a little debt, and do a sas.

Also, for a SAS, can you get a donar axle online or would a junk yard be a better idea? And which axles are a good choice?

Again, thanks a lot.

 

[Justshootme84]

For the SAS, shipping cost will **** your wallet so look for one locally. Most common model is a Dana44 from a mid-70's Ford 4WD truck. That will handle up to about a 38" tire. IF you want something stronger in the 1-ton rating, look for a DANA60. That one may cost you 2-3X as much for the axle as the D44.

Before you go to change the gears, find out what your stock/current ratio is. The 3.55 gears may be O.K. for 33" tires and a 4" lift. You won't win many races, but still driveable. I stil have the stock 3.50 gears with my 35's, but did some engine mods to make up for it. I'll do the gear swap to 4.56's in the near future, too.

 

[jboates]

I'm assuming that I have stock gears. (whatever a 1990 would be) As long as I will still have good low end power that's fine. I don't really care about highway speeds. The most people go around here is 60 with trucks...no racing. I've gotten this one up to around 80 and it's not fun even with 31" tires. /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

If stock gears will be ok on a 4" lift and 33's, how about a 6" with 35's?

Also, do you know of any really good place to get tires? I'm familiar with desertrat, natltire, and EBAY (those are all good but obviously cheaper is better.)

Thanks for all the help.

 

[Justshootme84]

Your Bronco may have one of 3 different gear ratios, which can make a BIG difference in how it takes to bigger tires. Look at the door jamb sticker on the driver's-side. If the axle code is "19" or "H9" you have 3.55 gears, the "H" is the factory limited slip option. If it's other, post it up and we can decode it. Post your tranny code, too, that also seems to make a difference sometimes. "K is the C6, an "E" is the E4OD. The OD (overdrive) will cause more powerloss on the highway with the larger tires.

I ususally get tires from Discount Tire, but the first 2 places you listed are good, too. An average 33x12.50R15 all-terrain is $100-$125. The BFG or GYR are close to $200 each.

 

[jboates]

Ok well according to the sticker, I have an E transmission (it's not stock anymore, it's a newer Jasper...don't know if it makes a difference.) and the other is H9.

what does the OD button do for me? (if I push it, it turns OD off.) Towing?

 

[meatheadz]

Ok well according to the sticker, I have an E transmission (it's not stock anymore, it's a newer Jasper...don't know if it makes a difference.) and the other is H9.
what does the OD button do for me? (if I push it, it turns OD off.) Towing?

19619[/snapback]

​

yup, towing, keeps you out of OD. Its easier on the engine to only run in a 1:1 ratio, instead of a .75:1 in the OD gear.

 

[Justshootme84]

The OD (overdrive) button should be "ON" for normal driving and highway use. At speeds above 50-55mph, the 0.73:1 gear ratio will drop your engine's RPM's from say 2600rpm in 3rd gear (1:1 ratio) down to around 1800 rpm's. This means the engine is not turning as fast to move the truck and will give you better gas mileage.

Lower rpm's also equates to less power from the engine to pull a trailer or turn taller, heavier tires. This is why the OD button should be "OFF" for towing, since you put more strain on the driveline while towing with OD. That's also why you will notice more power loss in OD with larger tires and stock gears, mostly when driving up a hill on the highway at 65mph.

As long as the new JAsper tranny is an E4OD, and the internal gear ratios are the same or very close to a stock E4OD tranny, you can ignore that difference. While it is still a part of your "final drive ratio" that also includes the axles' gears, the best way to re-gain the power loss from taller tires is from a gear ratio swap in the differentials (Both front and rear should be the same or very, very close)

Since you want to install a 33" tall tire, the proper gear ratio that will return your driveline to it's stock or factory condition and put you back into the engine's power band is a 4.10:1 ratio. Before spending the money to do the gear swap, I would try driving with your stock 3.55:1 gears and the 33" tires. IT's 50/50 whether or not you will feel a power loss. The numbers say that you will, but how much power loss you personally feel like you have is hard to tell. The rpm's at the same speed will be lower by 200-400 rpm's in the same gear, like 3rd. Depending on your engine size and it's operating condition, that small a drop may not even be noticeable. It's possible that you may feel like a snail and cannot climb a steep grade even in 3rd gear. In that case, a gear swap would be justified.

There are several formulas you can use to determine the gear ratio for what tire size at what speed and rpm's. But the "seat of the pants feel" is the best judge of the real effects from taller tires. Hope that helps explain things a bit!!!

>- JSM84