Less power/acceleration from 5.0 after E4OD rebuild

[Auroran]

I recently had my E4OD rebuilt in my 1996 5.0 Bronco by a reputable local transmission repair shop, and also had trouble codes run by another shop for a replacement of one of my O2 sensors.  The newly rebuilt tranny now has about 2000 miles on it since rebuild.  

This was a standard rebuild to stock form, and came with a 3 year warranty.  The 5.0 engine is original with 150K miles on it, with new fuel injectors, a variety of new sensors, new spark plugs, new fuel tank, fuel lines, and fuel filter in the last 20K miles.  Since the transmission rebuilt the trans shifts fine now. 

The problem is that I've noticed my acceleration and overall power I'm getting out of the motor has decreased since the rebuild.  It's just not as snappy and quick off the line or at top end for passing to some degree.  I've spoken with the transmission shop and they said that sometimes after a tranny rebuild that you'd have to give the engine a tune-up.  I was thinking that the truck's computer would make the necessary adjustments to accommodate for any changes in shifting (tighter), since most of the things I'd change out for a general tune-up have recently been done.  The only other engine light/code that has come up is the ABS light in the past 20 or so miles, and I'm not sure if that would have an impact on engine performance.  

Any help/suggestions from forum members is appreciated.  

 

[broncoboyerusa]

Disconnect the battery and reset the computer. Did they put a different torque converter in.

 

[miesk5]

Yo Auroran,

Welcome!

Is CEL ON while driving?

Same for Transmission Control Indicator Light (TCIL) , it is a LED and overdrive on/off switch at end of the Transmission shifter stalk; flashing OD light is an indication of a transmission related trouble code in the Powertrain Control Module (PCM).

Is it flashing while driving?

Have it scanned for codes at local parts store. Postvany codes found.

Transmission Fluid, should be red and no burnt toast aroma. This is by Ford;

"...It should be red, not brown or black. Odor may indicate overheating condition, clutch disc or band failure.

Use an absorbent white facial tissue and wipe the fluid level indicator. Examine the stain for evidence of solid particles and for engine coolant signs (gum or varnish on fluid level indicator).

If particles are present in the fluid or there is evidence of engine coolant or water, the transmission pan must be removed for further inspection.

If fluid contamination or transmission failure is confirmed by further evidence of coolant or excessive particles in the transmission pan, the transmission must be disassembled and completely cleaned and serviced. This includes cleaning and flushing the torque converter and transmission cooling system. Repair or replace radiator..."

...

Without a code, this is what a Ford mechanic would do;

Concerns: Poor Vehicle Performance

Possible Component Reference/Action

253 — ELECTRICAL ROUTINE

Powertrain Control System

Perform torque converter operation test.

Electrical inputs/outputs, vehicle wiring harnesses, powertrain control module, other engine related items, torque converter clutch solenoid, throttle position sensor, transmission range (TR) sensor, transmission fluid temperature sensor

Run On-Board Diagnostics. *** miesk5 Note, this is the code scan ***

Refer to Powertrain Control/Emissions Diagnosis Manual for diagnosis. Perform Service Manual Pinpoint Tests B, C and D using Rotunda Transmission Tester 007-00085, Cable and Overlay 007-00107 and the Transmission Range (TR) Sensor Cable "B" (MLPS Manual Lever Position Sensor Tester Cable) 007-00086 or equivalent as outlined in this section. Service as required. Clear codes, road test and rerun On-Board Diagnostics.

353 — HYDRAULIC/MECHANICAL ROUTINE

Shift Linkage (Internal/External) or Cable Damaged or misadjusted; Inspect for damage. Service as required. Verify linkage adjustment as outlined. After servicing linkage, verify that the transmission range (TR) sensor is properly adjusted. Refer to In-Vehicle Service in this section.

Shift Scheduling; Perform Shift Point Road Test procedure as outlined in this section.

Improper Go to the appropriate diagnostic routines for shift concerns No. 210-211. See linkage info below.

Engagements; Improper gear selection

Go to the appropriate diagnostic routines for shift concerns

No. 215/315. *** miesk5 Note, this is for No 1st Gear In Drive, Engages In Higher Gear. Involves shift linkage inspection & internal inspection.***

Converter Clutch Always Applied; Go to routine No. 341.

Converter One-Way Clutch; Damaged

Go to Torque Converter Checks in this section

....

Some Tests;

CHECK SHIFT CONTROL LINKAGE

Gain access to shift control linkage. Refer to Transmission Shift Cable and Bracket in the Removal and Installation portion of this section.

Actuate shift linkage in all ranges.

Observe all linkage during operation.

Is linkage damaged?

Yes kREPLACE shift control linkage. RESTORE vehicle. RETEST system.

No GO to B2.

B2 CHECK SHIFT CONTROL CABLE

Check transmission shift cable and bracket installation and tightness.

Is shift cable and bracket properly installed?

Yes ADJUST linkage. REFER to Transmission Shift Cable and Bracket in the Adjustments portion of this section.

No GO to B3. SERVICE as necessary. RESTORE vehicle. RETEST system.

B3 CHECK LINKAGE/CABLE FOR PROPER GEAR RELATIONSHIP

IActuate shifter in all ranges.

Does indicator match gear selection?

Yes SERVICE is complete. RESTORE vehicle. RETEST system. No REPLACE damaged linkage/cable. RESTORE vehicle. RETEST system.

...

Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) Test in (Ford 5.0L, 5.8L)

Symptoms of a BAD TPS; Here are some specific symptoms you'll see:

TPS Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC’s) stored in the vehicle’s computer’s memory. See this for TPS and other codes:

http://web.archive.org/web/20130425171112/http://www.thedieselstop.com/faq/9497faq/maint/stj/stj71a18.htm

Really BAD gas mileage.

*** No power as you accelerate the vehicle. ***

Hesitation when you step on the Accelerator Pedal.

....

Manual Lever Position/Transmission Range (MLP/TR) Sensor;

Test, Pin-Point in 92-96; from Ford EVTM; "...The negative lead of the multimeter should be placed at the MLPS signal-return ground terminal at the MLPS. Check the resistance of the MLPS: The resistance of the MLPS (pins 30 and 46).." read more @

http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/paynlessauto/2009-08-28_021637_222222.pdf

...

Now, for no codes, here are engine related possible suspects;

Again by Ford:

Vacuum leak, see my leak diagnosis link in post #20 @

http://broncozone.com/topic/23994-90-58l-getting-continuous-code-33-and-running-code-44/?p=125535

Air filter, is it relatively clean?

Air inlet atop radiator support to filter box and to throttle body; look for obstruction; open or damaged tubing

Wiring & connectors; inspect at coil, firewall, PCM, etc. especially those with broken locking tabs.

Transmission Fluid, should be red and no burnt toast aroma. This is by Ford;

"...It should be red, not brown or black. Odor may indicate overheating condition, clutch disc or band failure.

Use an absorbent white facial tissue and wipe the fluid level indicator. Examine the stain for evidence of solid particles and for engine coolant signs (gum or varnish on fluid level indicator).

If particles are present in the fluid or there is evidence of engine coolant or water, the transmission pan must be removed for further inspection.

If fluid contamination or transmission failure is confirmed by further evidence of coolant or excessive particles in the transmission pan, the transmission must be disassembled and completely cleaned and serviced. This includes cleaning and flushing the torque converter and transmission cooling system. Repair or replace radiator..."

...

Hopefull the code scan will narrow the list down.

 

[miesk5]

Yo,

I was typing while broncoboyerusa wrote about disconnecting battery. If you do that, you will need to go through the OBD II drive cycle before it gets scanned for codes.

Ask him how to perform the OBD II drive cycle.

 

[Auroran]

Thanks for the replies and advice.

I did disconnect the battery a couple of times for at least 10-15 minutes, thinking that the computer would reset.   The CEL is not on while driving, and the same for the TCIL.  Not sure of whether the torque converter was different from stock and will ask.  

I brought it back into the tranny shop this morning to have them take a look at it again. I'll report back to you all once I pick the truck up.  Thanks once again!

 

[miesk5]

Yo,

ok.

Wish you didnt disco the battery. Any stored codes are erased except for P1000 - On Board Diagnostic System Readiness Test Not Complete - Battery or Powertrain Control Module (PCM) had recently been disconnected. - An OBD monitor failure occurred before completion of an OBD drive cycle. - PCM Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC) have recently been cleared with a scan tool.

Hope you mentioned it to the transmission shop.

 

[Auroran]

I did not mention it to the shop, miesk5, but will momentarily.  Thanks.

 

[miesk5]

Yo,

Ok, good!

Found the drive cycle info from Ford!

Clearing DTC No. P1000

Readiness for Inspection/Maintenance Testing

In some localities it may become a legal requirement to pass an Inspection/Maintenance (I/M) test of the OBDII System. If the vehicle powertrain system or its battery has just been serviced, the OBDII system is reset to a not ready for I/M testing condition. To prepare the vehicle for this test and to clear the DTC No. P1000 the OBDII Drive Cycle must be performed.

OBDII Drive Cycle

The following steps MUST BE RUN IN THE ORDER SHOWN. If steps 2, 3, or 4 are interrupted, repeat the step before proceeding. Any safe driving mode is acceptable between steps.

NOTE: Always drive vehicle in a safe manner according to traffic conditions and obey all traffic laws.

Start engine and drive vehicle in typical city stop and go traffic for at least 10 minutes after it has reached normal operating temperature.

Idle vehicle for at least 45 seconds, then accelerate at part throttle to near 72 km/h (45 mph).

Then drive to accumulate at least 4 minutes in the range of 48-72 km/h (30 to 45 mph). If stop and go conditions occur, the designated accumulative time must be within the 32-72 km/h (20 to 45 mph) range. No wide-open throttle (WOT) conditions should be encountered.

Cruise and maintain a select speed in the range of 48-64 km/h (30 to 40 mph) on a level road with throttle held steady for at least one (1) minute.

Decelerate and idle for at least one minute.

Accelerate to 89 km/h (55 mph) at 1/2 throttle (elapsed time is about 10 seconds).

Cruise and maintain select speed in the range of 64-105 km/h (40 to 65 mph) on a level road with throttle held steady for at least 1 minute and 20 seconds.

Bring vehicle down to idle.

While the ignition key is on (vehicle at idle), check for continuous memory DTCs.

If system PASS, OBDII Drive Cycle is complete. If DTC P1000 is received, check monitor completion status (On-Board Readiness Menu), and repeat the drive cycle.

After performing the Quick Test, use the following Transmission Drive Cycle Test for checking E4OD continuous codes:

NOTE: The Transmission Drive Cycle Test must be followed exactly. Malfunctions have to occur four times consecutively for codes 617, 618, 619, P0781, P0782, and P0783 to be set, and five times consecutively for continuous codes 628, 629, P1728, P1744, P0741, P0743.

NOTE: When performing the Transmission Drive Cycle Test, refer to Shift Solenoid Operation Chart under Transmission Electronic Control System in the Description and Operation portion of this section for proper solenoid operation.

Record and then erase Quick Test codes.

Warm engine to normal operating temperature.

Make sure transmission fluid level is correct.

With transmission in OVERDRIVE, moderately accelerate from stop to 80 km/h (50 mph). This allows the transmission to shift into 4th gear. Hold speed and throttle open steady for a minimum of 15 seconds.

With transmission in OVERDRIVE, press transmission control switch (TCIL should illuminate) and moderately accelerate from stop to 64 km/h (40 mph). This allows transmission to shift into 3rd gear. Hold speed and throttle opening steady for a minimum of 15 seconds (30 seconds above 4000 ft.).

Press TCS (TCIL should turn off) and accelerate from 64 km/h (40 mph) to 80 km/h (50 mph). This allows transmission to shift into 4th gear. Hold speed and throttle position steady for a minimum of 15 seconds.

With transmission in 4th gear and maintaining steady speed and throttle opening, lightly apply and release brake pedal (2455) (to operate stoplamps). Then hold speed and throttle steady for an additional 5 seconds (minimum).

Brake to a stop and remain stopped for a minimum of 20 seconds.

Repeat Steps 4 through 8 at least five times.

Perform Quick Test and record continuous codes.

A friend once disconnected the battery when his 96 Broncos E4OD was violently shifting ... the shop replaced $700.00 in parts such as plugs, wires, distributor, Ignition Module, PCM, etc., but no change. Finally he drove it home and CEL LIT up. AdvancevAuto scanned it and the DTC led another shop to the proper tests and jumper the VSS input to the 4WABS Module.

If shop still claims transmission is ok then can look for more suspects such as dragging brakes due to;

Front wheel bearings out of adjustment.

Worn or damaged brake master cylinder.

Brakes out of adjustment.

Restriction in hydraulic system.

Seized rear wheel cylinders or disc brake caliperetc.

 

[Auroran]

Just got the truck back from the tranny shop.  No real positive or negative effects on performance.  The owner said the replacement torque converter installed was a rebuild, and was rebuilt to factory specs.  

I was thinking it could be the brakes also, and will look at them over the weekend.  Literally everything in the braking system (lines, cylinders, pads, rotors, drums) was replaced when I got the truck about 20,000 miles ago, but I live in Chicago and with our weather and winter salt on the roads the lifespan of those parts is reduced.  

Thank you all once again for the tips.  

 

[miesk5]

Yo,

Ok.

Did they do the road and torque converter tests as described in this?

http://www.diesel-dave.com/vehic/manual/stj/stj71a13.htm#extract_1004

Or diy.

...

For grabbing brakes, etc read through this;

https://www.yourmechanic.com/article/how-to-diagnose-your-brake-issues-by-spencer-cates

 

[Auroran]

No, they didn't.  I'll do it on my own next weekend and let you know what happens.  Again, thanks for the direction.