Intermittent Start Problems

[Jonathan]

Hi all. I am in dire need of help. Sorry for this long description but this is driving me nuts. I have an 87' with a 302 and I am having a major problem with it intermittently starting. In the past six months all the plugs have been replaced as well as the cap, rotor, and wires. Since this problem started over a month ago, I have also replaced the starter relay, the ignition module, the inline fuel filter, and the ignition coil with no luck. I have left it at a local mechanic on several occasions and it has started for him every time. For me it starts most of the time, but often enough, it just turns over and wont start. The more I try, the longer I have to sit before it will start. If it does not start on the first try, generally I can just sit with the key off for about 2 or three minutes and it will start like nothing was ever wrong. This problem started over a month ago but to add to it, in the last few weeks, it has also started to lag when driving around 55 to 60. If I am in heavier traffic and have to sustain speeds in that range for over ten minutes, it will lag for just a few second, like it lost all power but then kicks back in and runs normal. Usually just enough for me to loose a few miles an hour. Sometimes this occurs multiple times, and sometimes just once or twice. And usually it is accompanied with a strong smell of gas. I am sure this has something to do with the original problem. This problem seems to occur regardless to temperature outside, weather conditions, time since it was last started, amount of gas in the tank or even engine temperature.

Also, I have the joy of having the wonderful hat style hubs that you can not replace with normal Warn hubs. I replaced one when I bought it that was blown out but now, years later, the other has gone. Anyone know where I can get one without going back to the dealership and paying them an arm and a leg? I think the last one I bought was over $300.

 

[miesk5]

Hi all. I am in dire need of help. Sorry for this long description but this is driving me nuts. I have an 87' with a 302 and I am having a major problem with it intermittently starting. In the past six months all the plugs have been replaced as well as the cap, rotor, and wires. Since this problem started over a month ago, I have also replaced the starter relay, the ignition module, the inline fuel filter, and the ignition coil with no luck. I have left it at a local mechanic on several occasions and it has started for him every time. For me it starts most of the time, but often enough, it just turns over and wont start. The more I try, the longer I have to sit before it will start. If it does not start on the first try, generally I can just sit with the key off for about 2 or three minutes and it will start like nothing was ever wrong. This problem started over a month ago but to add to it, in the last few weeks, it has also started to lag when driving around 55 to 60. If I am in heavier traffic and have to sustain speeds in that range for over ten minutes, it will lag for just a few second, like it lost all power but then kicks back in and runs normal. Usually just enough for me to loose a few miles an hour. Sometimes this occurs multiple times, and sometimes just once or twice. And usually it is accompanied with a strong smell of gas. I am sure this has something to do with the original problem. This problem seems to occur regardless to temperature outside, weather conditions, time since it was last started, amount of gas in the tank or even engine temperature.
Also, I have the joy of having the wonderful hat style hubs that you can not replace with normal Warn hubs. I replaced one when I bought it that was blown out but now, years later, the other has gone. Anyone know where I can get one without going back to the dealership and paying them an arm and a leg? I think the last one I bought was over $300.

yo J!

No guesses here - just some DIY or free or low cost diagnostics

Do you have a Check engine light on?

either way, do a Self Test for Codes (DTCs)by Ryan M

How did the plugs look? Any that looked fouled by gas or oil?

any blue or black smoke coming out da tail pipe?

Smoke

- black smoke means the engine runs very rich - too much gasoline goes to the engine which most likely means there is something wrong with fuel- or ignition system. For example this may happen when one or two cylinders misfire.

- stinky blue or white-blue smoke means burning oil as result of serious internal engine defect (like broken pistons or piston rings).

Are the battery/starter/relay and all Grounds ok? - could have iffy Ground cable connections/connectors/wire stands within cable or connector's)- ck batty to engine to frame, etc.

- some causes of the gas aroma;

fuel pressure regulator may be operating at too high a pressure: perform fuel pressure test and repair or replace - FPR is a common Ford problem; some leak, be careful!

Check vacuum lines and fittings for leaks. Check engine compression. Check for broken fuel fittings

ignition timing may be set wrong: Check and adjust

gl!

 

[Jonathan]

Check Engine Light? What's that? LOL Actually, there is no check engine light on this model.

I replaced all the plugs in April when I had to put it through inspection. Checked them two weeks ago and all looked fine and gaps were good.

No noticable smoke from the tailpipe.

I recently (after this problem started) replaced the ignition coil, the starter relay, and ignition module. The ignition switch was replace a little over two years ago. I also checked the plugs and checked all my wires. The wires are new and were put on when the plugs were. At that time, I also replace the rotor and distributor cap. I checked the fuel and vacuum lines. All seemed good although I did replace one (vacuum) that looked a little rough. And of course a local mechanic has had it for several days after the last few weeks and has been over the engine with a fine tooth comb. But it starts every time he tries it. He also checked the timing at that time. No problems there. The strong gas smell only happed the few times I was mainting a speed of around 55-60 and it lagged like it was going to stall and then when right back to normal. I normally drive 65 so maybe it is only happening at lower RPMs and since I drive mostly highway, I might just not be giving it a chance to do it more often.

Locally the guesses have been one of the two fuel pumps or the cam shaft sensor (or whatever similar part this model has under the distributor) But there has been no cooperation from these parts in not working when someone is trying to check them.

I have been led to believe though, that next time it does not start, if I cycle the key 3 or 4 times and it starts after that, it is the fuel pump. I am just getting to a point where its getting frustrated and I dont want to keep buying un-needed parts.

Thank you for the advice though. It is always welcome.

 

[chuckles1856]

Maybe the fuel pump relay?

Isn't there some conversion kits for those types of hubs? Maybe I'm thinking of something else?

 

[snowman74]

By "hat style" hubs, I guess you mean automatic locking hubs? Yes, those can be converted...at least, I have read that on this board at one point. I'm not sure how, but I'm sure somebody on here will tell you how.

As far as Miesk5's suggestion that your fuel pressure regulator might be bad...that certainly does fit some of your symptoms....such as the smell of fuel, and the intermittent lack of power. It's a cheap enough fix, although you can buy them from $40 on up to whatever you want to pay. Just get a stock fpr and replace it. I think your problems will go away. It's easy enough to check it with a fuel pressure gauge, but those cost about as much as a new regulator, so, that's up to you. Accel makes a pressure gauge that you can mount on the interior of the engine well....right on the fuel rail. They are around $60 depending on where you go. They're nice to have, so consider it. On our 302's I think the pressure should be in the 30-35 range....double check with Miesk5 or somebody.

I've got the same engine and year bronco as you. They DO have check engine lights on them...though your light might be burnt out. Check it by running a code scanner on it or doing a self test to find out if it's throwing out any codes. But I think your best bet is the regulator. just for your info...when/if you replace it...it's held on by 3 allen head screws that go into it from the under-side of the regulator. It's a bitch to get to, but doable. Just take your time. ALso, before you take it off....wear some goggles. It's gonna spew gas at ya since it's under pressure.

Snowman74 >-

 

[Jonathan]

Actually these hat style hubs are not automatic although they might have come in automatic too. These are manual locking hubs. If you have an 87, you should have the same style. From what I have been told, this is something Ford tried throughout 87' and halfway into 88' before they went back to normal hubs. The locking hub is an all one piece assembly. If you check with warn or drivetrain.com you will get this message. "Will not fit 1987 early 1988 model vehicles, ****** mount (Dealer item only. See Ford parts & Service)."

Locally, for just one hub, the cost is $372.75. When I bought this truck 5 years ago, one was blown already and I had no idea what I was getting into. But now the second one is gone and if I cant find one aftermarket or used, I think the best thing in the long run would be to replace the whole front end.

Thanks for all of the other advice. Since I posted, it has not screwed up once. But I know it will when I can least afford it too so hopefully one of the suggestions I have been given will take care of the problem. Work on it starts tonight.

 

[miesk5]

yo!

yep, replacing the whole thAQng is the best way to get away fr. da ****** type. as descr by Matt K at off-road.com via web.archive.org "

To convert your 87-88 Bronco to the "standard" hubs you'll need to swap all the parts from the spindle out from a Bronco or F-150. It may even be possible to take these parts from any vehicle with a Dana 44 front axle and the same wheel bolt pattern as the Bronco (5 on 5.5"). If you are considering this swap it would be a good time to consider the 8 lug axle swap you've always wanted (see section 10.2)."

FPR; There should be 36-42 PSI

 

[Jonathan]

Thanks once again. I think its better to do the swap now than to spend the $400 and then have to replace once again down the road. Not affordable in any scenario.