Intermittent Electrical Shut Downs

[WingWalker]

I have a 1995 Bronco that has been running just fine for the past three years. It's recently started have electrical issues. It started with just the starting of the engine, where I would have to jiggle the ignition switch on an off repeatedly, just to get it to start. This would happen randomly. Then it progressed to where I had to start moving the shifter handle ( on the column ) from park through the forward gears to get it to start. Then it became a combination of moving the shifter and jiggling the ignition switch, in order to get the engine to start.

There have been fewer times with the engine just turning off while it was idling in the driveway.

Sometimes it just starts back up when I turn the ignition switch. Other times I have to go through the whole routine of moving the shifter and jiggling the ignition switch on and off.

Then there is a third issue which seems to be related; while driving the engine has just died like someone switched off the key.

And the fourth issue of while driving ... the engine just died .. briefly .. and turned back on, causing the truck to lurch.

That's where I'm currently at.

Now there is one more detail.

The original ignition key unit was replaced a year ago, because it was badly worn out and the key wasn't working like it should have.

I replaced the key module with the only replacement part that was available from NAPA Auto Parts.

Everything worked fine until roughly the last five months. Which means that these things started happening about November December of 2015.

Anything you guys can suggest will be greatly appreciated.

I don't believe in just swapping out parts for parts. I want to know what's causing all this to happen, so I can try to eliminate the problem.

 

[miesk5]

Yo,

Is it a tilt column?

For now...

as Sackman wrote; Pop your head underneath the column & move the shifter arm up and down. There is a ring underneath with two torx screws that commonly come loose. You'll probably see them when moving the shifter. Tighten those up, I'm sure that's at least part of the problem.

Parts Break-Out Diagram in 92-96 Tilt w/Nomenclature; "...This is actually a CV diagram, but similar; Items #26 & 34 are known to get loose; #28 is known to wear. Items #19 & 25 are known to break, and Ford offers upgraded versions..." by Steve

http://www.supermotors.net/registry/media/701936

To align the shifter, shift lever, & shift indicator read Steve's Shift Cable Adjustment for 92-96

http://www.supermotors.net/registry/media/434182

ignition switch testing:

http://www.supermotors.net/registry/media/831772

 

[Seabronc]

I have a 1995 Bronco that has been running just fine for the past three years. It's recently started have electrical issues. It started with just the starting of the engine, where I would have to jiggle the ignition switch on an off repeatedly, just to get it to start. This would happen randomly. Then it progressed to where I had to start moving the shifter handle ( on the column ) from park through the forward gears to get it to start. Then it became a combination of moving the shifter and jiggling the ignition switch, in order to get the engine to start.

There have been fewer times with the engine just turning off while it was idling in the driveway.

Sometimes it just starts back up when I turn the ignition switch. Other times I have to go through the whole routine of moving the shifter and jiggling the ignition switch on and off.

Then there is a third issue which seems to be related; while driving the engine has just died like someone switched off the key.

And the fourth issue of while driving ... the engine just died .. briefly .. and turned back on, causing the truck to lurch.

That's where I'm currently at.

Now there is one more detail.

The original ignition key unit was replaced a year ago, because it was badly worn out and the key wasn't working like it should have.

I replaced the key module with the only replacement part that was available from NAPA Auto Parts.

Everything worked fine until roughly the last five months. Which means that these things started happening about November December of 2015.

Anything you guys can suggest will be greatly appreciated.

I don't believe in just swapping out parts for parts. I want to know what's causing all this to happen, so I can try to eliminate the problem.

The truck shutting off like someone turned off the key is most likely the pickup inside the distributor.  I have had that problem in the past and there have been several instances of it reported in this forum.

The jiggling of the shift lever to get it to start is often caused by the ignition switch alignment.  Possibly because the bolts that hold it in position have loosened.

http://broncozone.com/topic/7243-ignition-switch-adjustment-proceedure/?hl=ignition

Another thing you may want to check is the grounding of the battery (-) cable.  Remove and clean the terminal and lug,  disconnect the engine and chassis connection clean the contact surfaces. Then also check the condition of the cable lug connection.  If there is any corrosion, replace the cable,  If lug connections are OK then reconnect the cable and apply some silicon grease around the bolt connections to help keep water from causing corrosion.

Good luck,

>-

 

[WingWalker]

Thank you guys for your input ! I will check those items you've mentioned. As for my cable (s), I do a pretty fine job of preventative maintenance on all my vehicles ... to a fault !

I have a complete shop with just about everything a guy could want, including air power, air tools, including a fully complete welding shop that includes gas, arc, tig, mig and plasma cutter.

The only tools I'm missing are a lathe, mill, and tubing bender.

I've discussed my problems with a local Napa store, and they mentioned the control module under the distributor, along with another part of the ignition switch assembly.

So it looks like we're on the right path.

Thanks once again for your assistance !!!!!!

 

[WingWalker]

I almost forgot !!

Yes .. it's a tilt column steering assembly

 

[miesk5]

Yo,

Ok...

One more possibity...

No Start Troubleshooting; "...First thing to check is wiring. Between the large posts of your starter relay (it's not a solenoid) should be a smaller post with a wire attached. This is the wire from your ignition switch through the Park/Neutral Safety Switch (NSS)/Manual Lever Position Sensor (MLPS), Or clutch safety switch on a manual trans, or NSS/MLPS with an AOD/E4OD, to the starter relay and the on to the starter solenoid (if equipped) and starter. Check this wire for cracks, open insulation, or anything that could possibly cause an open circuit. Next, check your upper ignition actuator.

*** Find the ignition rod (on top of the column, running from the steering wheel down to the ignition switch at the base of the column) and make sure it's moving back and forth when you turn the key, through all positions. If it is, your upper actuator is probably not the problem.***

*** Lastly, check your ignition switch (again, at the base of the column). Manually push the switch back and forth through the different positions. Push it all the way forward (or down) and see if it will engage the starter. If it does, then your ignition rod is probably bent, which can be remedied quite easily.

*** If it's an auto, try starting in neutral or while pulling up on the lever while it's in park. If that works, look to the Park/NSS/MLPS. If it's a stick, check the clutch switch. ***

You could try jumping from hot to the small terminal on the starter relay to test it's operation. Sometimes new ones are bad out of the box. If it won't turn over when jumped to the small terminal, you'll know that it's a starter relay issue (Bad part, bad ground or a bad starter. Check to see if da relay is tight to inner fender with no corrosion because the relay's body is ground path via inner fender). If it does turns over jumped to the small terminal, then you'll be looking for something in the small circuit that includes the ignition switch & the park/neutral safety switch (NSS/MLPS) Or clutch safety switch. There should be 12v running from the ignition switch, thru the NSS/MLPS, to the small terminal on the starter relay. Disconnect the small wire to the starter relay (So it doesn't start by surprise, I'd pull the coil wire too). With someone holding the key in the start position, you should be able to read 12v between any point on that small circuit & ground. When you find where you lose 12v, then you'll know where the issue is..."; MIESK5 EDIT; changed a few terms; Also, see Starter (@) Relay Jumping Image in 92-96 @ http://www.broncolinks.com/gallery_images/StarterRelayJumpinin92-96.JPG - Sewiw shows a remote start switch's Jumpers; you can use a small jumper; MIESK5 NOTE; from Ford EVTM; The Control Module (PCM) runs the pump{s} for one second when it receives an ignition- on signal. It also runs the pumps as long as it receives a PIP signal from the Hall-effect devices, it continues pump operation even after the key is released from START. If the PIP signals fall below 120RPM, the control module cuts off the signal to the fuel pump relay or the integrated relay control module. The pump will also run when the terminals of the fuel pump test connector are jumped. the Control module signals the pump when it receives a CRANK signal, and when the Control module gets PIP signals that the engine is running. the pump does not run if the PIP indicates the engine is not running even with ignition ON {except for that first one second}.

 

[WingWalker]

OK Guys ! ... I fear my Bronc has taken a turn for the worse ! ... I finally found where those idiot engineers hid the infamous " Ignition Module " that seems to cause everyone so much grief .. including my own. They stuck it down in the corner next to the firewall and on the drivers fender side. OK .. I got the whole unit out and replaced the module with a brand new module.  Since I was working on the truck, I decided to replace the cap and rotor, since they weren't in such great shape.

I've read information about there being different colored " Ignition Modules ", as though the color makes a difference.

The ignition module I removed was " Black ", and the new ignition module I installed tonight was " Gray " .... is there a difference ?

I've now got everything all put back together, and made sure the module was placed on a new bed of " heat sink compound ".  Made sure all my connections were good .. ( actually found a bad connection on another plug just under the coil assembly. ) .. made sure it was fully seated.

Went to start the truck and got N O T H I N G  ! .... the engine turned over like crazy ! .. but no fire ! .. nada, .. zip, .. zero, .. !!! no party favors ... Nothing !

It's now after 2100 hours and I am ****** off with this truck ..... I'm in a very bad mood ! 

I'm very particular about my work, and all I did was swap out an old part for a new part ! ... I think I was doing better with the old module.  At least when it wanted to, it would start !

I'm now up shit creek and no paddle or extra canoe and I need my Bronc up and running !

Unfortunately for me, this is the only truck I own that I don't have a factory service manual, due to the cost of all the manuals.

At least my two 1985 Dodge Truck manuals were reasonably priced and didn't require a separate manual for electrical, engine, body, etc. 

Ford really sticks it to the consumer for factory manuals.

Does anyone have any additional information ... because I've checked out everything else I could find.

 

[miesk5]

Yo,

use BLACK CCD Modules in 94-96 Broncos

emote Mount Black CCD "Computer Controlled Dwell" ICM

Ford Bronco - Wiring Schematic

"I've done a LOT of research on this in the past few months. It turns out that indeed, Ford turned to a CCD (computer-controlled dwell) ignition module sometime between 1993 and 1995. I only found this out because, like you, I got the code 212 along with some ignition problems. Well, that and Steve83 and I had slight disagreement; I'd incorrectly assumed the parts catalogs to be correct, whereas his recollection was based upon Ford's schematics. Now I only trust the OE schematics and OE part numbers. I've bugged the local Ford dealer's parts people to DEATH over some stupid things like this.

Motorcraft - DY1077 (supercedes DY679, DY667, DY645)

Ford - 5U2Z-12A297-D (supercedes F1PZ-12A297-A)

Wells - F139

Niehoff - FF413

BWD - CBE40

Standard - LX-241

NapaEchlin - TP29

Delphi - DS10056

Transpo - FM544"

by Seattle FSB (SeattleFSB)

.....

google DY-1077; get the GENUINE FORD MC unit via AMAZON (I saved $100.00 and 7% Sales tax with free s&h on a DPFE and same on an IAC last year

One search is for $106.

and ROCK AUTO has it for $81.79 prices from 2010

 

[WingWalker]

Sorry about the verrrrry late reply,  ( Steel Head and Salmon Fishing take PRIORITY ..... " a man has got to know his limitations " hahahahaha ! )  ..... but everythinbg is working ............ except for the newest issue with the " Check Engine " Light, which will NOT stay off.

New computer, all new Sensors, CLEARED ALL CODES ..... testing showed no additional issues. 

Diagnostic unit was a " Snap On " Tablet Type diagnostic device, and we cleared every code one at a time until no more were left.

Still getting the " Check Engine " light.

 

[miesk5]

Yo,

I replied in your other post @ http://broncozone.com/topic/25508-1995-bronco-xlt-check-engine-light-sensors/?do=findComment&comment=134191