Hi idle with new 56mm throttle body

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dozer59044

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Ok all you electronic era mechanics, I have been having problems with idle on my 89 302 V8 for some time.

It was eradtic hot or cold when coming to a stop I had to bump the throttle to get it to drop down. I replaced the cable ,tps.

Didnt help. I got to looking at the linkage on the throttle body and it was hanging open a little bit when you let off the gas. So I got a BBK 56mm to replace it. Hopfuly to fix the problem and to get a little more power. Well know my idle is stuck at 2000-2400rpm.

Will not come down with pedal tap,I ******** the timing. Still when you restart it jumps up.

HHHHHHEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for any advice, By the way Ive had this thing to a shop several times and they cant fix it, but they charge me a few hundred bucks anyway.

As you can tell I'm a little frustrated with this problem. :((

 

ilystbronco

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maybe ur throttle position sensor cuz mine u have to hit the pedal one time to get it to rev back down so i put a scanner on it and it said my throttle position sensor was bad i ordered on and its on the way i paid like 40$

 

ilystbronco

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maybe ur throttle position sensor cuz mine u have to hit the pedal one time to get it to rev back down so i put a scanner on it and it said my throttle position sensor was bad i ordered on and its on the way i paid like 40$

 

ilystbronco

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maybe ur throttle position sensor cuz mine u have to hit the pedal one time to get it to rev back down so i put a scanner on it and it said my throttle position sensor was bad i ordered on and its on the way i paid like 40$

 

miesk5

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maybe ur throttle position sensor cuz mine u have to hit the pedal one time to get it to rev back down so i put a scanner on it and it said my throttle position sensor was bad i ordered on and its on the way i paid like 40$
Good info ilystbronco !

&

Try a Self Test for Trouble Codes;

Self Test & Connector Location & pics, Bronco & Ford BEST PROCESS WITH DIAGRAMS! Source: by Ryan M

also; The TPS is located at the end of the throttle shaft on the throttle body. Using the TPS voltage signal the EEC determines fuel delivery based on throttle position. A bad TPS can be the cause of bad idle, which is caused by the injector pulse fluctuating. Some loss in performance can also be expected.

Some possible TPS Codes:

Code 23 KOEO & KOER is present when the EEC detects a TPS problem - Closed throttle TPS voltage higher or lower than expected.

Code 53 KOEO - TPS circuit has intermittently failed above maximum 4.5 volts

Code 63 KOEO - TPS circuit below minimum 0.6 volts - TPS senor did not exceed 25% rotation during Dynamic Response Test

Code 73 KOER - TPS senor did not exceed 25% rotation during Dynamic Response Test (user error). Never seen anyone describe this Dynamic Test in good detail using the jumoer method, but the MultiMeter test is used (if you don't have a nice/cheap Code Reader..GET IT FOR under $20.00 now at stores..much cheaper than paying $$$ to those so-called mechanics) as described below by Scott G

"GOOSE TEST (also called a Dynamic Rresponse Test) using a MultiMeter; test is output during an engine running test. To do the KOER test, set the car up as above. Then with the STI/signal return jumper disconnected, start up and run it at 2000 RPM or so for two minutes, to thoroughly warm up the EGO sensors and get everything stable. Shut down, reconnect the jumper, and immediately restart, and the EEC-IV will go into the KOER test. Several things will happen. The first is that you'll get the engine ID code- 2 pulses for a 4-cylinder, 3 pulses for a 6, and 4 for a V8. Then the EEC-IV will begin playing with its actuators and sensors, trying to fool them into going to the extremes of their ranges. During this interval the car will run very poorly at times- it may go rich, lean, stumble, buck, and do all manner of unpleasant things. This will last from 6 to 20 seconds. After this interval, the motor will smooth out and begin an even idle. You will then see a single flash or sweep of the needle. This is the Dynamic Response code, which is your cue. After this code, you have 10 seconds to snap the throttle wide open, just long enough to get above 2000 RPM. Once the engine gets above 2000 RPM (it won't take long at WOT with no load!), release the throttle, and let the engine go back to idle. This part is lovingly called the "goose test". The EEC-IV needs to see what happens at high throttle settings to make sure all of its sensors and actuators work properly, so you get to help out by goosing it. This test will last from 4-15 seconds. The goose test is followed by fast codes (which only those of us stuck with a meter will be able to see, and we can't do anything with them), followed by the KOER on-demand codes exactly as above. If all was well, you'll get 11-11. If you didn't goose it enough, you'll get a 77 and get to do it over again. At this point you can optionally run the SEFI or Cylinder Balance test. If you have an '87 or later, lightly tap the throttle (it only takes a small movement) WOT), and release it. Owners of '86s will have to go WOT briefly. After a little while, the EEC-IV will begin cutting the injector to each cylinder in turn, and looking for a drop in RPM. If there is no drop associated with any individual cylinder, then there is some problem there (that may or may not be related to the injection system- you could have a valve problem, or a fouled plug, or a shop towel stuck in the intake runner, and get the same effect). This test takes about 90 seconds. If a cylinder is found by this test to be weak, a single-digit code will be flashed telling you which one (1-8). If all is well, the code will be 9. If it gives you a 77, it got confused (perhaps you bumped the throttle) and you need to start over and rerun the test. '87 and later cars can then rerun the SEFI test after it finished, again by just tickling the throttle (saves having to go back through the whole KOER test). It also relaxes the criteria for "fail" with each retest, so if one cylinder fails the first time but passes the second, it's only a little weak- whereas if it fails 3 times in a row, it's profoundly dead. Those of us with '86s have to go back to Square 1 to rerun, and we don't get this progression of thresholds to help us troubleshoot.

Source: by Scott Griffith for the Nothern California Shelby Club newsletter, and run in a slightly edited form on the Mustangs Mailing list vis corral.net "

Sensor Safe carb cleaner or TB cleaner can be used to clean the sensor. If the problem persist replace it.

Also....A technician that is unfamiliar with the EEC Self-Test can mistakenly believe that continuous Memory codes are not present when they really are. He may run KOER Self-Test and get a pass code (111) and not realize that KOEO Self-Test must be run to receive any Continuous Memory codes. He may run KOEO Self-Test while counting MIL flashes and misinterpret the repeated hard fault pass code (111) to mean that Continuous Memory does not contain any codes.

Source: by Ford via miesk5

Found that some Shops don't know this crap and then charge you those big $ and then can't find the problem.

 
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dozer59044

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Thanks for input.

The TPS was already replaced . So at this piont I am running a new TPS with a New BBK 56mm Throttle body.

As stated before the TPS replacement had no affect on the idle problem.

I will try the Test you mentioned Miesk5, do you mind if I copy your reply ?

Its more info than I can remember, plus I will have to get my electronics minded friend to help me.

Thanks

 
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dozer59044

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OK,

I went out and bought a code reader. Ran test, 23 and 31 Come up all three test.

23-TPS not within range / 31-EGR valve sensor.

I replaced both, still running with hi idle and still getting same codes from reader even after disconnecting battery to clear computer.

What now?????

 
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miesk5

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OK,
I went out and bought a code reader. Ran test, 23 and 31 Come up all three test.

23-TPS not within range / 31-EGR valve sensor.

I replaced both, still running with hi idle and still getting same codes from reader even after disconnecting battery to clear computer.

What now?????
yo!

I wrote a lengthy reply...but this fff'in lap top went down again...Dell overheating problem again..so will reply in short sections now

Continuous Memory Codes; These codes are retained in memory for 80 warm-up cycles. To clear the codes for the purposes of testing or confirming repair, perform the KOEO test. When the fault codes begin to be displayed, de-activate the test by either disconnecting the jumper wire (meter, MIL or message center) or releasing the test button on the hand scanner. Stopping the test during code transmission will erase the Continuous Memory. Do not disconnect the negative battery cable to clear these codes; the Keep Alive memory will be cleared and a new code, 19, will be stored for loss of PCM power

Source: by Chilton via autozone.com

 

miesk5

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The Keep Alive Memory (KAM) contains the adaptive factors used by the processor to compensate for component tolerances and wear. It should not be routinely cleared during diagnosis. If an emissions related part is replaced during repair, the KAM must be cleared. Failure to clear the KAM may cause severe driveability problems since the correction factor for the old component will be applied to the new component.

To clear the Keep Alive Memory, disconnect the negative battery cable for at least 5 minutes. After the memory is cleared and the battery reconnected, the vehicle must be driven at least 10 miles (16 km) so that the processor may relearn the needed correction factors. The distance to be driven depends on the engine and vehicle, but all drives should include steady-throttle cruise on open roads. Certain driveability problems may be noted during the drive because the adaptive factors are not yet functioning

Source: by Chilton via autozone.com

 

miesk5

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TROUBLESHOOTING THE TPS

The following is a list of vehicle symptoms which have been associated with the TPS, but can also be related to other vehicle components.

Check engine light

Stalls/quits

Hesitation/stumble

Fast idle

If an EEC error code has identified the TPS as suspect, perform pinpoint tests on the TPS.

CAUTION:

MANY VOLTMETERS WILL AUTOMATICALLY CHANGE RANGES WHEN MEASURING TPS OUTPUT FROM IDLE TO WOT. WHEN A VOLTMETER IS USED TO MEASURE TPS OUTPUT FROM IDLE TO WOT, THE METER SCALES OR CHANGES RANGES AUTOMATICALLY. THERE MAY BE AN ERRONEOUS METER DISPLAY UNTIL THE VOLTMETER HAS LOCKED TO THE APPROPRIATE VOLTAGE READING. THE ERRONEOUS METER DISPLAY DOES NOT REPRESENT A DEFECTIVE TPS.

NOTE: IT IS RECOMMENDED THAT THE "RANGE LOCK" FEATURE ON MANY METERS BE SET FOR CHECKING TPS VOLTAGE.

Use the 0.00 range to measure TPS voltage.

If your voltmeter does not change ranges automatically and the meter is set to millivolt scale when reading full range voltages, the meter display may not indicate a valid value. This can be misinterpreted as an open circuit or suspect TPS. Ensure the meter is set to volts for measuring full range voltage levels.

 

miesk5

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found this; is for later years and 3 digit DTC, but should apply to your year;

DTC X23 limit the condition to the TP circuit, connector, or vehicle harness

 

miesk5

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EGR Valve Position (EVP) Sensor & Code 31

Source: by Dan J at asashop.org

It seems lately that a lot of On-Demand codes have been coming up and the voltage on the EVP sensor (EGR valve position sensor that is mounted to the EGR valve) is reading correctly on Fords. The problem seems to be that sometimes the wrong sensors are being installed and are therefore sending the improper voltage signals to the powertrain control module.

Ford uses two different EVP sensors: a black and a white (or gray). And both will send a different voltage in the same position. At rest, the black sensor will read .75 to .95 volts and the white (or gray) will read .35 to .45 volts.

If the voltage reading is correct for the sensor you have and you're wondering if this is the correct sensor for the system, there is an easy way to find out. Remove the EVP sensor and push the pintle in slowly with the sensor connected and the key on, engine off (KOEO), while watching the voltage on the brown wire with a green tracer (wire colors may vary). You should be able to hold the pintle so the input voltage is .40 volts. Then, redo KOEO self-test. If you still get a code 31, then set the voltage to .80. If you have a pass 11 in KOEO self-test, the system needs a black EVP sensor. The same is true for the opposite ... if .80 gets a code 31 and .40 passes, the system needs a white (or gray) EVP.

This will only work with On-Demand (hard fault) codes. If you have EVP/EGR codes only in keep-alive memory, more than likely you have a different problem.

 

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