i have a 89 bronco with a c6 and a very modifyed 351 i filled up at a gas station with ethnol and my truck kept loading up for the next few weeks until i filled up at shell which has no ethnol now it runs like a ***** ape is that because of the gas i ran a few more tanks from shell and no problems
gas talk
- Thread starter oktogo
- Start date
Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.
Seabronc
New member
You got it, ethanol only helps people who grow corn. It definitely doesn't burn as well as gas. What is the ethanol percentage used in your state? Not many places nowadays you can get gas without ethanol mixed in. High mileage gas has pretty much gone the way of the dinosaur. Most vehicles don't have as much trouble with it except for poorer mileage than when using non-ethanol gas. The only way to prove it to yourself is to put a couple of tanks of the ethanol gas in and see if you get the same result.
Good luck,
>-
Good luck,
>-
Last edited by a moderator:
madmax
Member
Out here it's 10 percent, I didn't check shell, but for my outboard motor I go to the airport and buy 100 octane low lead (its a 1952 evinrude, unleaded was unheard of then). I've also found that it seems to help some cars get passed emissions, and they run like **** then too. I'm sure it's illegial as ****, but ill jump off that bridge when i come to it.
scubachris
New member
I would advise to fuel up with non ethanol gas. Sea is right about the benefits of ethanol. It burns hotter than normal , and is known to dissolve fuel line, parts etc. It is nothing, but a shame. Maybe one day we will have a government that makes informed decisions. Anyways, if you can fill up with regular. An old oilfield worker.
yo,
I had a fuel deposit/detonation issue w/Cheap Gas from a convenince store 2 yrs ago;
TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline Retailers
Gasoline retailers must meet the high TOP TIER standards with all grades of gasoline to be approved by the automakers as providing TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline.
In addition, all gasoline outlets carrying the brand of the approved retailer must meet the TOP TIER standards.
Additional gasoline retailers are added to the TOP TIER list as they meet the standards. The retailers known to be on the TOP TIER list are shown below.
TOP TIER Gasoline Retailers:
76 Petro-Canada
Aloha Petroleum Phillips 66
Chevron QuikTrip
Chevron Canada Rebel Oil
Conoco Road Ranger
CountryMark Severson Oil
Entec Stations Shell
Esso Shell Canada
Exxon Sunoco Canada
Kwik Trip / Kwik Star Texaco
MFA Oil Co. The Somerset Refinery, Inc.
Mileage Stations Tri-Par Oil Co.
Mobil Turkey Hill Minit Markets
U.S. Oil
The intention of the TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline standards is to create a winning situation for gasoline retailers, auto manufacturers and drivers. Currently, many gasoline retailers provide fuels with lower-quality additive packages that can build up deposits on fuel injectors and on intake valves. Others can build up deposits in combustion chambers and may lead to intake valve sticking. These lower levels of additives can have negative impacts on engine performance and vehicle responsiveness
Deposit Control Standards
The standards developed by the four automobile manufacturers (BMW, General Motors, Honda, and Toyota) for TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline are described below. This technical document describes the deposit control performance of unleaded gasoline at the retail level that minimizes deposits on fuel injectors, intake valves, and combustion chambers. These standards comprise the requirements for TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline.
Standards
1.1 Retail Gasoline Performance Standards. The deposit control performance of unleaded gasoline conforming to section 1 of this document shall be met at the retail level in all grades of gasoline sold by a fuel company in all marketing areas of a selected nation. In addition, conformance to the standards shall mean gasoline sold in the selected nation shall not contain metallic additives, including methylcyclopentadienyl manganese tricarbonyl (MMT).
1.2 Deposit Control Additive Requirements. The deposit control additive used to meet the performance Standards described in 1.3 shall meet the substantially similar definition under Section 211(f) of the Clean Air Act. Also, the additive shall be certified to have met the minimum deposit control requirements established by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) in 40 CFR Part 80. Lastly, the additive shall be registered with the EPA in accordance with 40 CFR Part 79.
1.3 Deposit Control Initial Performance Standards. Initial deposit control performance shall be demonstrated using the tests shown below.
1.3.1 Intake Valve Keep Clean Initial Performance Standard.
1.3.1.1 Test Method. Intake valve deposit (IVD) keep clean performance shall be demonstrated using ASTM D 6201, Standard Test Method for Dynamometer Evaluation of Unleaded Spark-lgnition Engine Fuel for Intake Valve Deposit Formation. Tests demonstrating base fuel minimum deposit level (1.3.1.2) and additive performance (1.3.1.3) shall be conducted using the same engine block and cylinder head. All results shall be derived from operationally valid tests in accordance with the test validation criteria of ASTM D 6201. IVD results shall be reported for individual valves and as an average of all valves.
1.3.1.2 Base Fuel. The base fuel shall conform to ASTM D 4814 and shall contain commercial fuel grade ethanol conforming to ASTM D 4806. All gasoline blend stocks used to formulate the base fuel shall be representative of normal U.S. refinery operations and shall be derived from conversion units downstream of distillation. Butanes and pentanes are allowed for vapor pressure adjustment. The use of chemical streams is prohibited. The base fuel shall have the following specific properties after the addition of ethanol:
Contain enough denatured ethanol such that the actual ethanol content is no less than 8.0 and no more than 10.0 volume percent.
Contain no less than 8 volume percent olefins. At least 75% of the olefins shall be derived from FCC gasoline as defined by CARB (advisory letter, April 19, 2001).
Contain no less than 28 volume percent aromatics as measured by ASTM D 1319 or D 5580.
Contain no less than 24 mg/kg sulfur as measured by ASTM D 2622 or D 5453. At least 60% of the sulfur shall be derived from FCC blend stock.
Produce a 90% evaporation distillation temperature no less than 290F. as measured by ASTM D 86.
Produce IVD no less than 500 mg averaged over all intake valves.
1.3.1.3 Demonstration of Performance. The base fuel from 1.3.1.2 shall contain enough deposit control additive such the IVD is no more than 50 mg averaged over all intake valves. Results for individual valves and an average shall be reported. The unwashed gum level of the fuel containing deposit control additive shall be determined according to ASTM D 381 and reported.
1.3.2 Combustion Chamber Deposit Initial Performance Standard.
1.3.2.1 Test Method. Combustion chamber deposits (CCD) shall be collected and weighed along with IVD using ASTM D 6201, Standard Test Method for Dynamometer Evaluation of Unleaded Spark-Ignition Engine Fuel for Intake Valve Deposit Formation. ASTM D 6201 does not contain a procedure for collecting and measuring CCD. Adapting a scrape and weigh procedure developed by CARB is recommended (see referenced test method dated March 12, 1999). Results for individual cylinders and an average shall be reported.
1.3.2.2 Base Fuel. Combustion chamber deposits shall be measured for the base fuel from 1.3.1.2.
1.3.2.3 Demonstration of Performance. The base fuel from 1.3.1.2 treated with additive at the concentration meeting the standard found in 1.3.1.3 shall not result in more than 140% of the average CCD weight for the base fuel without additive.
1.3.3 Fuel Injector Fouling Initial Performance Standard.
1.3.3.1 Test Method. Fuel injector fouling shall be measured using the TOP TIER fuel injector fouling vehicle test available from GM. GM will run the test on a first-come-first-served basis and shall make the method available to those who wish to run the test on their own.
1.3.3.2 Base Fuel. Two options for base fuel are available:
1.3.3.2.1 Option 1. A full boiling range hydrocarbon gasoline or gasoline blending component, without oxygenates and without deposit control additives, that results in at least five inoperative injectors when tested by the method in 1.3.3.1.
1.3.3.2.2 Option 2. Federal emissions test gasoline specified in DFR 86.113-04, into which 4-methylbenzenethiol (WARNING: Flammable solid; irritant) has been blended at a concentration of 56 mg/L. The blended fuel must result in at least four inoperative injectors when tested by the method in 1.3.3.1. the Federal emissions gasoline, without deposit control additives, available from Haltermann Products (1201 South Sheldon Road, Channelview, TX 77530; tel.: 800-969-2542) has been found to be satisfactory.
1.3.3.3 Demonstration of Performance. A demonstration of injector fouling shall be done first. At least five out of six injectors (with Option 1) or at least four out of six injectors (with Option 2) shall be inoperative for the test to be valid. A demonstration of additive performance shall be done after the fouling tendency demonstration; no other test shall be conducted on the vehicle in the interim. A demonstration of additive performance shall be conducted using the same vehicle (including the fuel drain and flush procedures and installing new injectors) with the same batch of base fuel, but now containing the same amount of deposit control additive as in 1.3.1.3. A pass is defined as no more than one inoperative injector.
1.3.4 Determination of Deposit Control Additive Performance Concentration.
1.3.4.1 Methodology. The concentration of deposit control additive needed to meet the standards in 1.3.1.3 and 1.3.3.3 should be equivalent. However, if the concentration of deposit control additive in 1.3.3.3 is grater than in 1.3.1.3m the higher value shall be regarded as meeting both standards. Also, if the difference between the two concentrations is grater than 15%, 1.3.2.3 shall be repeated using the higher concentration.
1.3.5 Intake Valve Sticking Initial Performance Standard.
1.3.5.1 Test Method. Intake valve sticking tendency shall be determined using either the 1.9 L Volkswagen engine (Wasserboxer according to CEC F-16-T-96) or the 5.0 L 1990-95 General Motors V-8 engine (SWRI IVS test). Two options are available for demonstrating intake valve sticking tendency.
1.3.5.2 Option 1. The valve-sticking tendency of the test fuel by itself will not have to be demonstrated prior to testing the candidate additive. The following shall be required of all tests:
Test fuel shall be either the same as in 1.3.1.2 or CEC valve sticking reference fuel.
Concentration of deposit control additive in the test fuel shall be at least twice the amount determined in 1.3.4.1.
Test temperature shall be -20�C.
Three 16-hr cold soak cycles, each followed by a compression pressure check, shall constitute a complete test.
1.3.5.2.1 Demonstration of Performance. A pass shall result in no stuck valves during any of the three cold starts. A stuck valve is defined as one in which the cylinder pressure is less than 80% of the normal average cylinder compression pressure.
1.3.5.3 Option 2. The valve-sticking tendency of the test fuel together with an additive known to cause valve sticking shall be demonstrated prior to testing the candidate additive. The following shall be required of all tests:
Test fuel shall be either the same as in 1.3.1.2 or CEC valve sticking test reference fuel.
An additive known to cause valve sticking shall be selected, and, when blended into test fuel, shall demonstrate valve sticking tendency as follows: (a) for the Volkswagen engine, at least two valves shall be stuck; ( B) for the GM engine, at least three valves shall be stuck.
Test demonstrating performance of the candidate additive shall be conducted at a concentration that is at least three times the amount determined in 1.3.4.1.
Test temperature shall be -20�C.
One 16-hr cold soak cycle followed by a compression pressure check shall constitute a complete test.
1.3.5.3.1 Demonstration of Performance. A pass shall result in no stuck valves during the cold start. A stuck valve is defined as one in which cylinder compression is less than 80% of the normal average cylinder compression pressure.
http://www.toptiergas.com/
I had a fuel deposit/detonation issue w/Cheap Gas from a convenince store 2 yrs ago;
TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline Retailers
Gasoline retailers must meet the high TOP TIER standards with all grades of gasoline to be approved by the automakers as providing TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline.
In addition, all gasoline outlets carrying the brand of the approved retailer must meet the TOP TIER standards.
Additional gasoline retailers are added to the TOP TIER list as they meet the standards. The retailers known to be on the TOP TIER list are shown below.
TOP TIER Gasoline Retailers:
76 Petro-Canada
Aloha Petroleum Phillips 66
Chevron QuikTrip
Chevron Canada Rebel Oil
Conoco Road Ranger
CountryMark Severson Oil
Entec Stations Shell
Esso Shell Canada
Exxon Sunoco Canada
Kwik Trip / Kwik Star Texaco
MFA Oil Co. The Somerset Refinery, Inc.
Mileage Stations Tri-Par Oil Co.
Mobil Turkey Hill Minit Markets
U.S. Oil
The intention of the TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline standards is to create a winning situation for gasoline retailers, auto manufacturers and drivers. Currently, many gasoline retailers provide fuels with lower-quality additive packages that can build up deposits on fuel injectors and on intake valves. Others can build up deposits in combustion chambers and may lead to intake valve sticking. These lower levels of additives can have negative impacts on engine performance and vehicle responsiveness
Deposit Control Standards
The standards developed by the four automobile manufacturers (BMW, General Motors, Honda, and Toyota) for TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline are described below. This technical document describes the deposit control performance of unleaded gasoline at the retail level that minimizes deposits on fuel injectors, intake valves, and combustion chambers. These standards comprise the requirements for TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline.
Standards
1.1 Retail Gasoline Performance Standards. The deposit control performance of unleaded gasoline conforming to section 1 of this document shall be met at the retail level in all grades of gasoline sold by a fuel company in all marketing areas of a selected nation. In addition, conformance to the standards shall mean gasoline sold in the selected nation shall not contain metallic additives, including methylcyclopentadienyl manganese tricarbonyl (MMT).
1.2 Deposit Control Additive Requirements. The deposit control additive used to meet the performance Standards described in 1.3 shall meet the substantially similar definition under Section 211(f) of the Clean Air Act. Also, the additive shall be certified to have met the minimum deposit control requirements established by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) in 40 CFR Part 80. Lastly, the additive shall be registered with the EPA in accordance with 40 CFR Part 79.
1.3 Deposit Control Initial Performance Standards. Initial deposit control performance shall be demonstrated using the tests shown below.
1.3.1 Intake Valve Keep Clean Initial Performance Standard.
1.3.1.1 Test Method. Intake valve deposit (IVD) keep clean performance shall be demonstrated using ASTM D 6201, Standard Test Method for Dynamometer Evaluation of Unleaded Spark-lgnition Engine Fuel for Intake Valve Deposit Formation. Tests demonstrating base fuel minimum deposit level (1.3.1.2) and additive performance (1.3.1.3) shall be conducted using the same engine block and cylinder head. All results shall be derived from operationally valid tests in accordance with the test validation criteria of ASTM D 6201. IVD results shall be reported for individual valves and as an average of all valves.
1.3.1.2 Base Fuel. The base fuel shall conform to ASTM D 4814 and shall contain commercial fuel grade ethanol conforming to ASTM D 4806. All gasoline blend stocks used to formulate the base fuel shall be representative of normal U.S. refinery operations and shall be derived from conversion units downstream of distillation. Butanes and pentanes are allowed for vapor pressure adjustment. The use of chemical streams is prohibited. The base fuel shall have the following specific properties after the addition of ethanol:
Contain enough denatured ethanol such that the actual ethanol content is no less than 8.0 and no more than 10.0 volume percent.
Contain no less than 8 volume percent olefins. At least 75% of the olefins shall be derived from FCC gasoline as defined by CARB (advisory letter, April 19, 2001).
Contain no less than 28 volume percent aromatics as measured by ASTM D 1319 or D 5580.
Contain no less than 24 mg/kg sulfur as measured by ASTM D 2622 or D 5453. At least 60% of the sulfur shall be derived from FCC blend stock.
Produce a 90% evaporation distillation temperature no less than 290F. as measured by ASTM D 86.
Produce IVD no less than 500 mg averaged over all intake valves.
1.3.1.3 Demonstration of Performance. The base fuel from 1.3.1.2 shall contain enough deposit control additive such the IVD is no more than 50 mg averaged over all intake valves. Results for individual valves and an average shall be reported. The unwashed gum level of the fuel containing deposit control additive shall be determined according to ASTM D 381 and reported.
1.3.2 Combustion Chamber Deposit Initial Performance Standard.
1.3.2.1 Test Method. Combustion chamber deposits (CCD) shall be collected and weighed along with IVD using ASTM D 6201, Standard Test Method for Dynamometer Evaluation of Unleaded Spark-Ignition Engine Fuel for Intake Valve Deposit Formation. ASTM D 6201 does not contain a procedure for collecting and measuring CCD. Adapting a scrape and weigh procedure developed by CARB is recommended (see referenced test method dated March 12, 1999). Results for individual cylinders and an average shall be reported.
1.3.2.2 Base Fuel. Combustion chamber deposits shall be measured for the base fuel from 1.3.1.2.
1.3.2.3 Demonstration of Performance. The base fuel from 1.3.1.2 treated with additive at the concentration meeting the standard found in 1.3.1.3 shall not result in more than 140% of the average CCD weight for the base fuel without additive.
1.3.3 Fuel Injector Fouling Initial Performance Standard.
1.3.3.1 Test Method. Fuel injector fouling shall be measured using the TOP TIER fuel injector fouling vehicle test available from GM. GM will run the test on a first-come-first-served basis and shall make the method available to those who wish to run the test on their own.
1.3.3.2 Base Fuel. Two options for base fuel are available:
1.3.3.2.1 Option 1. A full boiling range hydrocarbon gasoline or gasoline blending component, without oxygenates and without deposit control additives, that results in at least five inoperative injectors when tested by the method in 1.3.3.1.
1.3.3.2.2 Option 2. Federal emissions test gasoline specified in DFR 86.113-04, into which 4-methylbenzenethiol (WARNING: Flammable solid; irritant) has been blended at a concentration of 56 mg/L. The blended fuel must result in at least four inoperative injectors when tested by the method in 1.3.3.1. the Federal emissions gasoline, without deposit control additives, available from Haltermann Products (1201 South Sheldon Road, Channelview, TX 77530; tel.: 800-969-2542) has been found to be satisfactory.
1.3.3.3 Demonstration of Performance. A demonstration of injector fouling shall be done first. At least five out of six injectors (with Option 1) or at least four out of six injectors (with Option 2) shall be inoperative for the test to be valid. A demonstration of additive performance shall be done after the fouling tendency demonstration; no other test shall be conducted on the vehicle in the interim. A demonstration of additive performance shall be conducted using the same vehicle (including the fuel drain and flush procedures and installing new injectors) with the same batch of base fuel, but now containing the same amount of deposit control additive as in 1.3.1.3. A pass is defined as no more than one inoperative injector.
1.3.4 Determination of Deposit Control Additive Performance Concentration.
1.3.4.1 Methodology. The concentration of deposit control additive needed to meet the standards in 1.3.1.3 and 1.3.3.3 should be equivalent. However, if the concentration of deposit control additive in 1.3.3.3 is grater than in 1.3.1.3m the higher value shall be regarded as meeting both standards. Also, if the difference between the two concentrations is grater than 15%, 1.3.2.3 shall be repeated using the higher concentration.
1.3.5 Intake Valve Sticking Initial Performance Standard.
1.3.5.1 Test Method. Intake valve sticking tendency shall be determined using either the 1.9 L Volkswagen engine (Wasserboxer according to CEC F-16-T-96) or the 5.0 L 1990-95 General Motors V-8 engine (SWRI IVS test). Two options are available for demonstrating intake valve sticking tendency.
1.3.5.2 Option 1. The valve-sticking tendency of the test fuel by itself will not have to be demonstrated prior to testing the candidate additive. The following shall be required of all tests:
Test fuel shall be either the same as in 1.3.1.2 or CEC valve sticking reference fuel.
Concentration of deposit control additive in the test fuel shall be at least twice the amount determined in 1.3.4.1.
Test temperature shall be -20�C.
Three 16-hr cold soak cycles, each followed by a compression pressure check, shall constitute a complete test.
1.3.5.2.1 Demonstration of Performance. A pass shall result in no stuck valves during any of the three cold starts. A stuck valve is defined as one in which the cylinder pressure is less than 80% of the normal average cylinder compression pressure.
1.3.5.3 Option 2. The valve-sticking tendency of the test fuel together with an additive known to cause valve sticking shall be demonstrated prior to testing the candidate additive. The following shall be required of all tests:
Test fuel shall be either the same as in 1.3.1.2 or CEC valve sticking test reference fuel.
An additive known to cause valve sticking shall be selected, and, when blended into test fuel, shall demonstrate valve sticking tendency as follows: (a) for the Volkswagen engine, at least two valves shall be stuck; ( B) for the GM engine, at least three valves shall be stuck.
Test demonstrating performance of the candidate additive shall be conducted at a concentration that is at least three times the amount determined in 1.3.4.1.
Test temperature shall be -20�C.
One 16-hr cold soak cycle followed by a compression pressure check shall constitute a complete test.
1.3.5.3.1 Demonstration of Performance. A pass shall result in no stuck valves during the cold start. A stuck valve is defined as one in which cylinder compression is less than 80% of the normal average cylinder compression pressure.
http://www.toptiergas.com/
Elmo
Member
You can always count on M5 to give a through answer. I held on for a minute but got overwelmed before halftime. thanks for the info that I could comprehend tho. Now I know where to buy fuel from and where to avoid.
Similar threads
