Fuel to the rail

[woodydog]

Im new here and have been looking for posts that match but to no avail. I feel like an idiot because i had a good running bronco until i cleaned the engine. After cleaning it fired up and then died. I thought it might be electrical but with starting fluid she starts and stops. we checked the pressure part on the rail and it has no pressure. when i bought it the previous owner stated that he put a new fuel pump in and we can here it kick on when the key is turned. I have tried a new inline fuel filter and a new fuel pressure regulator.

Here are my dumb questions! Is there a 2nd fuel pump closer to the engine that could have shorted out? Also is there some sort of electrical component that could have shorted out that feeds the rail.

Thanks in advance for any and all help. I will be back and forth on this post as i will be out trying to figure out whats wrong.

Again Thanks!

 

[duckdogwhiskey]

What year and engine is your truck? There are many more qualified folks on here than myself but I had the same problem a couple of years back and took all of the steps that you have done so far and ultimately it ended up being the distributor. If you are hearing the fuel pump when you turn the key, that rules out a fuse. Have you checked the inertia switch? That was one of many of the things suggested to me before. Hope this helps as that would be a super easy fix. What did you clean the engine with, degreaser? Did you cover up the distributor before cleaning it?

 

[woodydog]

What year and engine is your truck? There are many more qualified folks on here than myself but I had the same problem a couple of years back and took all of the steps that you have done so far and ultimately it ended up being the distributor. If you are hearing the fuel pump when you turn the key, that rules out a fuse. Have you checked the inertia switch? That was one of many of the things suggested to me before. Hope this helps as that would be a super easy fix. What did you clean the engine with, degreaser? Did you cover up the distributor before cleaning it?

thanks for the reply...I dont believe it to be the distributor because when we shot it with starting fluid it fired up but died due to lack of fuel. where do i find the inertia switch and what does it do?

 

[duckdogwhiskey]

It basically shuts off fuel flow in case of collision as I understand it. If I am wrong on that someone please correct me. I am just trying to remember what was told to me when I had the problem before. It should be located somewhere inside the passenger side kick panel up underneath the glove box (At least it was on my 95 xlt). Once you get in there you should find a box with a button on there that may need to be reset. I found this thread.

http://broncozone.com/topic/21404-need-help/page__p__112134__hl__inertia%20switch__fromsearch__1entry112134

It would be helpful to know your year and make.

 

[woodydog]

It basically shuts off fuel flow in case of collision as I understand it. If I am wrong on that someone please correct me. I am just trying to remember what was told to me when I had the problem before. It should be located somewhere inside the passenger side kick panel up underneath the glove box. Once you get in there you should find a box with a button on there that may need to be reset.

Thanks..Will give it a shot...BTW its a 91 with a 351w

 

[woodydog]

Thanks..Will give it a shot...BTW its a 91 with a 351w

I believe i found the switch behind the plastic molding on the passenger side. it looked like it had a red button on the top however it was not up or resettable. not 100% sure i have the right thing

 

[Seabronc]

Please only post a problem in one forum. If it is a technical question use the Tech support forum. I have deleted your duplicate post and moved this one to the Tech support forum.

If you don't hear your fuel pump come on, then the inertia switch is very likely the problem. Look at the thread that was previously included by Duckdogwisky. If it is suspect, a volt meter is the best way to check that it is working. The switch has 3 wires, a dark green with yellow stripe, a pink with black stripe and a gray with orange stripe. You should have 12V on the dark green and pink leads.

Good luck,

>-

 

[woodydog]

Please only post a problem in one forum. If it is a technical question use the Tech support forum. I have deleted your duplicate post and moved this one to the Tech support forum.

If you don't hear your fuel pump come on, then the inertia switch is very likely the problem. Look at the thread that was previously included by Duckdogwisky. If it is suspect, a volt meter is the best way to check that it is working. The switch has 3 wires, a dark green with yellow stripe, a pink with black stripe and a gray with orange stripe. You should have 12V on the dark green and pink leads.

Good luck,

>-

Sorry about the dup post...newbie...the fuel pump comes on and then shut down after a few seconds after the build up i guess. is the inertia switch located on the driver or passenger side and would it be located under the side plastic molding?

Thanks

 

[Seabronc]

Sorry about the dup post...newbie...the fuel pump comes on and then shut down after a few seconds after the build up i guess. is the inertia switch located on the driver or passenger side and would it be located under the side plastic molding?

Thanks

If you hear the pump come on and then shut off, that is normal and the inertia switch is OK. If it were not, then the pump wouldn't come on. I'm not positive of the year that they went from a 2 pump system to a single pump system. I do know that 89 had 2 and 92 has 1. If the 91 has 2, the high pressure pump is located on the frame rail under the left side.

Good luck,

>-

 

[woodydog]

If you hear the pump come on and then shut off, that is normal and the inertia switch is OK. If it were not, then the pump wouldn't come on. I'm not positive of the year that they went from a 2 pump system to a single pump system. I do know that 89 had 2 and 92 has 1. If the 91 has 2, the high pressure pump is located on the frame rail under the left side.

Good luck,

>-

This high pressure pump is different than the fuel pressure regulator because i have already replaced that.

Thanks

 

[Seabronc]

This high pressure pump is different than the fuel pressure regulator because i have already replaced that.

Thanks

OK, not sure what you are trying to say here but yes they are two different things. The regulator is in the engine compartment and if the 91 has a 2 pump system the high pressure pump is on the FRAME rail (just about where the driver seat is). The low pressure pump is in the tank. Both have to be working in order to get pressure at the regulator.

If it has a 1 pump system, the high pressure pump is in the tank and there is no pump on the frame rail. I can't help you there, because I'm not sure which system you have. Maybe miesk5 can jump in here with some information.

There are only two things involved in getting fuel from the tank to the pressure regulator, fuel line and pump/s. If you have no pressure at the regulator, one of those has to be bad. Clogged fuel line or bad pump/s. I would take the fuel line off the regulator at the regulator and put it in a container (perhaps a gallon can), an then have someone turn the key on to see if fuel is coming through. On an EFI engine that should be high pressure so be careful and have a fire extinguisher handy just in case.

Good luck,

 

[woodydog]

OK, not sure what you are trying to say here but yes they are two different things. The regulator is in the engine compartment and if the 91 has a 2 pump system the high pressure pump is on the FRAME rail (just about where the driver seat is). The low pressure pump is in the tank. Both have to be working in order to get pressure at the regulator.

If it has a 1 pump system, the high pressure pump is in the tank and there is no pump on the frame rail. I can't help you there, because I'm not sure which system you have. Maybe miesk5 can jump in here with some information.

There are only two things involved in getting fuel from the tank to the pressure regulator, fuel line and pump/s. If you have no pressure at the regulator, one of those has to be bad. Clogged fuel line or bad pump/s. I would take the fuel line off the regulator at the regulator and put it in a container (perhaps a gallon can), an then have someone turn the key on to see if fuel is coming through. On an EFI engine that should be high pressure so be careful and have a fire extinguisher handy just in case.

Good luck,

Im off again tomorrow...will give it a try...thanks seabronc

 

[Elmo]

My 1990 5.8 only has one pump- in the tank.

 

[Seabronc]

My 1990 5.8 only has one pump- in the tank.

Thanks Elmo, I'll have to make note of that.

>-

 

[woodydog]

Thanks Elmo, I'll have to make note of that.

>-

Ok...got underneath her and along the frame rail there is only the inline fuel filter that i replaced. now im attempting to remove the fuel line at the FPR. do i need a special tool to remove the fuel line. i bought the tool for the inline filter but that one does not seem to fit.

Thanks

 

[miesk5]

yo,

Clam Shell Type Tool: "..You must buy or borrow disconnect tools to disassemble the fuel rails. These are sold as disconnects for Ford fuel and AC fittings in most stores. There are two different styles to this tool. The cheaper version is shown in the first photo below. They are one-piece design. The more expensive version is a two-piece design, it springs open and closed. Both versions work very well. Here are a few different views of these fittings to ad your in there removal. Here is a visual explanation on the removal of these fittings. I have found that you have to twist while pushing the disconnect tool into the cage. This helps ensure the spring spreads over the female fitting. Once the spring is spread over the female fitting, you have to pull the two ends apart. They are relatively durable fittings so don’t be afraid to use some force to help the O-rings slide. Remember these are sealed to over 100PSI and they have been connected for how long .."

by Ryan M (Fireguy50) at http://fordfuelinjection.com/?p=12

======================

This is more than what you need, but am inserting it here for posterity since Mark's site is gone now and I retrieved parts of it via the archives;

"...The fuel rail can be fragile - so take care not to bend or distort it in any aggressive actions...easier said than done, I am sure. The first thing to do was to disengage the fuel lines. Yes, good to FORD'S endless engineering stupidity, a special tool is needed to disengage the lines from the rail. There are two lines - a feeder and a return, both of which need to be removed. The ones in 1990 and higher trucks are the the Spring Coupling type and require a cylindrical tool to push the girdle spring over the flanged ends of the fuel rail coupling inlet/outlet. To make matters funnier, they are two different sizes and require two tools. However, CDN Tire sells a 6 sizes kit for about $18.00 CDN. They are lower quality than the MAC or SNAPON tools, but since this job would probably be a one-time affair, I saved some cash and took the rest out in swearing. The tool slips on, gets shoved into the girdle and you pull the lines apart. About 3 hours of this and one realizes that these couplings are 13 years undisturbed and did not volunteer a quick and easy disconnections. Grief!

Remove the four small bolts holding the fuel rail assembly to the LIM.

Lift off the fuel rail with all 8 injectors. Be careful here, not to distort the rail or allow crap to fall into the injector ports. Again, easier said than done. The injectors have been cooking in there for some time and may not readily come out as the book says.

Ensure all O-rings come with the injectors and nothing stays behind. At this point I decided to clean the ports out with Q-tips and a high suction vacuum. The vacuum hose was a piece of 5/8 inch stiff hose attached to the shop vac. It fit in each port perfectly and sucked all the loose dirt from well inside the LIM.

Each injector was removed from the fuel rail and cleaned and inspected for damage. Check all the O-rings for damage. The injector come off the rail with a slight pull and gentle rocking of the injector. TIP: get your injectors cleaned and tested at a shop that does this sort of thing. They suggest the injectors be replaced after 100,000 miles or so, and of course if they show signs of depleted efficiency. Ultrasonic cleanings work best, and a test rig for testing the injectors is priceless. At $75.00 to $160.00 EACH (Canadian) for the injectors ( X8) lets get them cleaned and tested and replace only those that really need to. In my case, all injectors are operating (after cleaning) very well.

I found the FUEL REGULATOR suspect of poor, well yes, regulation - and replaced it - for about $68.00 CDN...it turns out this sucker was the problem I had been experiencing - I AM GOOD. It is held on by 3 hex screws and easy to replace.

Assembly:

All parts underwent inspection and a thorough cleaning - cleaning agents: Carb cleaner for the Throttle body, gasoline for other parts etc.

The UIM was given a brass brush cleaning - to make the FORD 302 5.0L Shine.

A gasket was cut for the EGR sensor assembly.

A new gasket for the Throttle body.

A new gasket purchase for the UIC. All surfaces cleaned of old gasket material - and checked for any problems - i.e. warps etc. All was o.k.

The assembly is basically the reverse operation of what I stated above. Just make sure you don't have any extra parts left over.

by RFR (Mark B) at rfr.htmlplanet.com via web.archive

--------

Air Conditioning & EFI Fuel Lines, Ford pic; "...Most Ford vehicles are equipped with spring lock couplings on fuel and air conditioning lines. Necessary tool releases locking mechanism on all 4 sizes: A (3/4"), B (5/8"), C (1/2") and D (3/8")...Caution: For intended use only. Do not use with engine running. Release system pressure before disconnecting coupling..."

Source: by KD Tools kd-tools.com See #3290

 

[woodydog]

yo,

Clam Shell Type Tool: "..You must buy or borrow disconnect tools to disassemble the fuel rails. These are sold as disconnects for Ford fuel and AC fittings in most stores. There are two different styles to this tool. The cheaper version is shown in the first photo below. They are one-piece design. The more expensive version is a two-piece design, it springs open and closed. Both versions work very well. Here are a few different views of these fittings to ad your in there removal. Here is a visual explanation on the removal of these fittings. I have found that you have to twist while pushing the disconnect tool into the cage. This helps ensure the spring spreads over the female fitting. Once the spring is spread over the female fitting, you have to pull the two ends apart. They are relatively durable fittings so don’t be afraid to use some force to help the O-rings slide. Remember these are sealed to over 100PSI and they have been connected for how long .."

by Ryan M (Fireguy50) at http://fordfuelinjection.com/?p=12

======================

This is more than what you need, but am inserting it here for posterity since Mark's site is gone now and I retrieved parts of it via the archives;

"...The fuel rail can be fragile - so take care not to bend or distort it in any aggressive actions...easier said than done, I am sure. The first thing to do was to disengage the fuel lines. Yes, good to FORD'S endless engineering stupidity, a special tool is needed to disengage the lines from the rail. There are two lines - a feeder and a return, both of which need to be removed. The ones in 1990 and higher trucks are the the Spring Coupling type and require a cylindrical tool to push the girdle spring over the flanged ends of the fuel rail coupling inlet/outlet. To make matters funnier, they are two different sizes and require two tools. However, CDN Tire sells a 6 sizes kit for about $18.00 CDN. They are lower quality than the MAC or SNAPON tools, but since this job would probably be a one-time affair, I saved some cash and took the rest out in swearing. The tool slips on, gets shoved into the girdle and you pull the lines apart. About 3 hours of this and one realizes that these couplings are 13 years undisturbed and did not volunteer a quick and easy disconnections. Grief!

Remove the four small bolts holding the fuel rail assembly to the LIM.

Lift off the fuel rail with all 8 injectors. Be careful here, not to distort the rail or allow crap to fall into the injector ports. Again, easier said than done. The injectors have been cooking in there for some time and may not readily come out as the book says.

Ensure all O-rings come with the injectors and nothing stays behind. At this point I decided to clean the ports out with Q-tips and a high suction vacuum. The vacuum hose was a piece of 5/8 inch stiff hose attached to the shop vac. It fit in each port perfectly and sucked all the loose dirt from well inside the LIM.

Each injector was removed from the fuel rail and cleaned and inspected for damage. Check all the O-rings for damage. The injector come off the rail with a slight pull and gentle rocking of the injector. TIP: get your injectors cleaned and tested at a shop that does this sort of thing. They suggest the injectors be replaced after 100,000 miles or so, and of course if they show signs of depleted efficiency. Ultrasonic cleanings work best, and a test rig for testing the injectors is priceless. At $75.00 to $160.00 EACH (Canadian) for the injectors ( X8) lets get them cleaned and tested and replace only those that really need to. In my case, all injectors are operating (after cleaning) very well.

I found the FUEL REGULATOR suspect of poor, well yes, regulation - and replaced it - for about $68.00 CDN...it turns out this sucker was the problem I had been experiencing - I AM GOOD. It is held on by 3 hex screws and easy to replace.

Assembly:

All parts underwent inspection and a thorough cleaning - cleaning agents: Carb cleaner for the Throttle body, gasoline for other parts etc.

The UIM was given a brass brush cleaning - to make the FORD 302 5.0L Shine.

A gasket was cut for the EGR sensor assembly.

A new gasket for the Throttle body.

A new gasket purchase for the UIC. All surfaces cleaned of old gasket material - and checked for any problems - i.e. warps etc. All was o.k.

The assembly is basically the reverse operation of what I stated above. Just make sure you don't have any extra parts left over.

by RFR (Mark B) at rfr.htmlplanet.com via web.archive

--------

Air Conditioning & EFI Fuel Lines, Ford pic; "...Most Ford vehicles are equipped with spring lock couplings on fuel and air conditioning lines. Necessary tool releases locking mechanism on all 4 sizes: A (3/4"), B (5/8"), C (1/2") and D (3/8")...Caution: For intended use only. Do not use with engine running. Release system pressure before disconnecting coupling..."

Source: by KD Tools kd-tools.com See #3290

Thanks miesk5 for the info...i have picked up the tool, the round single piece one, even prior to coming home and reading your post. the picture you provided i hope confirms ive got the right one. we have rain until saturday as well as some snow which we rarely get. will keep u posted.

Thanks again

 

[woodydog]

ok..im back...weather is nice...no rain no snow...got back under her today..pulled the fuel line and nothing...the previous owner had replaced the fuel pump and it still ( as best we can tell) seems to be loading up when the key turns but no fuel coming out prior to the fuel filter. could i have shorted or have a bad fuel pump even though it sounds like its working. also on kragen i see fuel pumps at around 125.00 and then some at 50.00. whats the difference.

thanks in advance!

 

[Elmo]

the 125 pumps probably come with the whole assembly and the 50 probably is just the pump motor and sock. Altho i have seen the higher price pump in the delphi or a/c delco ect a higher end pump manufacture