fuel problems ???? I think

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bronco5.8

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Hi guy's my little brother needs help with the black beast its a 93 Eddie with a 5.8 auto the motor dose have 225K on it its still stock ok this is the problem wen you go to start it the thing will not start till you turn on and off the key on just till the pump comes on for a few seconds and turn it off you have to do this five or six times and wen it starts it runs like crap i think it needs a fuel pump but that's me and I am still out of state working my dad and brother think its the motor I have another 351 at the house but if its a fuel problem the same problems will happen with the new motor the bronco is a bit wheezy but she still runs like a champ till this so tell me if I am wrong if not i will buy a pump and send it to him so he can fix it himself thanks guys

2012-04-14 17.08.01.jpg

 
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bronco5.8

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oh and he takes his driving test in a week so he is open to all help and michael says thanks

 

Rons beast

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Are you turning the key and the truck is cranking, but not starting? Then after attempting this a few times it fires?

What happens if you turn the key to the run position, wait a few seconds ( 5-10) then turn all the way to crank?

I'm trying to determine if the issue is fuel not getting to the fuel rail and injectors, and is the issue fuel preasure drop off, or an electrical problem not energizing the pump.

 
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bronco5.8

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no he is just turning the key on till the mileage shows up and back off but not cranking it till he does this five or six times and my dad told me today it seems like its starving for fuel is that a Fuel pressure regulator problem ???

 

miesk5

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yo,

Have them do a Self Test for Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC)s by my pal, BroncoJoe19

http://broncozone.co..._mode__threaded

http://broncozone.com/topic/14269-code-reader/page__pid__74587__mode__threaded

The engine temperature must be greater than 50° F for the Key On Engine Off (KOEO) Self-Test and greater than 180° F for the Key On Engine Running (KOER) Self-Test.

Run it around to heat the engine up and shift thru all gears incl Reverse. Then turn off all accessories/lights, etc.

Make sure A/C is off and transmission is in Park (automatic) or in Neutral for a Manual & release clutch.

Do Key On Engine Off (KOEO) portion first.

Look Codes up in my broncolinks.com site using the new Search function.

And Post em here according to:

KOEO

&

KOER

and then ask them to look @ this to help them give us more details (I have an awful headache due to the pollen; worse iin many years)

probstnocrank.JPG

by Charlie Probst

then have them look @ this;

probstHard StartLong CrankNo StartNormal Crank.JPG

by Charlie Probst

-----------------

No Crank, Starter Relay Clicks/Buzzes; "...It can click/buzz from several causes:-A weak battery. Not enough juice to crank it once the solenoid closes. Buzz. Bad cables. Look for swollen places in the insulation, white or green dust/corrosion, worn or burnt places, stiff sections, or relay is loose (check for corrosion/rust between relay body and fender liner; tighten bolts holding it to passenger side fender liner), etc. See pic E. If you replace them, try to get a larger diameter cable. Stock is typically 4 gauge, changing to a 2 or 0 gauge will pay off in the long run. Loose cables. Negative from the battery where it attaches to the engine is a common location, but check them all. Dirty cable connections. Don't just clean the outside, clean where the cable contacts the post & where the other end connects too. Cheap clamp on ends. See pics D & E below.

http://www.hotrodwires.com/cart/images/products/BatteryCableTop1cRev-lg.jpg

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/129/c110100153202.jpg

No Crank; "...For an engine-won't-crank condition with an automatic transmission, determine if the condition exists with the shift control selector level in both PARK and NEUTRAL positions before performing the ignition switch continuity tests.

If the no-crank condition occurs in one shift lever position but not the other, a more probable cause is the Manual Lever Position (MLPS) located on driver's side of transmission case.

Ignition Switch Pin-Out Diagram & Continuity Testing (Logic Tables); Disconnect ignition key warning switch terminal and wire from the ignition switch.

Test the continuity of the ignition switch as described in the following illustrations.

Connect a self-powered test lamp or ohmmeter between the blade terminals indicated on the chart.

No continuity between any blade and chassis ground should exist in any ignition switch position except the proof Circuit 41 (BK/LB) (Pin P1) and Circuit 512 (T/LG) (Pin P2) in the START position only.

NOTE: Ignition Switch Mechanical Test: Accessories that fail to operate with the key in RUN, or that remain on when the key is turned off, may be the result of a misadjusted ignition switch rather than a malfunctioning ignition switch.

Refer to Ignition Switch in the Adjustments portion of this section.

Do not apply lubricant to the inside of the ignition switch.

Test the steering column ignition system mechanical operation by rotating the ignition switch lock cylinder through all positions of the ignition switch. The movement should feel smooth with no sticking or binding.

 

The ignition system should return from the START position back to the ON position without assistance (spring return). If sticking or binding is encountered, check for the following: burrs on the ignition switch lock cylinder; binding ignition switch lock cylinder; shroud rubbing against ignition switch lock cylinder; burrs or foreign material around the rack-and-pinion actuator in the housing of the ignition switch lock cylinder; insufficient **** on actuator; binding ignition switch..."

96ignswitchlogic.gif

No Start Troubleshooting; "...If you can't start the Bronco from the key/cylinder it might be the "upper ignition actuator" has broken in it's track inside the steering wheel OR could be just the key cylinder itself which "pops out" if you look right under it on the metal column collar, there's a little slot and with the key turned to RUN -engine off push up inside with an appropriate tool and comes right out. You can either jump start the vehicle from the "starter relay" under the hood, right inside fender area or pull off the "black plastic cosmetic column shroud" exposing a long 'ROD" and with the key turned to RUN using a set of pliers, drive the ROD downward/forward and the vehicle will start with most key functions intact....i.e, RUN/NO START, OFF/LOCK, AUX..."

Source: by JKossarides ("The Bronco", Jean)

Actuator (Upper & Lower) pics in 92-96 w/Out Tilt; Ford pn F2DZ 3E723 A, "Upper plastic ignition actuator gear with teeth often breaks prevents you from starting or shutting off the vehicle with the ignition key. The ignition rack actuator failure if often misdiagnosed as a ignition lock or ignition switch problem..." miesk5 Note, pn F0DZ 3E715 A is Lower actuator rod; This piece is actually what joins with the ignition switch to start the Bronco. It is pushed by the ignition lock cyliner and upper rack gear.

Source: by steeringcolumnservices.com @ http://www.steeringcolumnservices.com/ford/ignition-actuators.php

MORE Switch & Actuator info LINKs in my site @ http://www.broncolinks.com/index.php?index=225

No Start Troubleshooting but Starter Cranks Engine in 4.9, 5.0, or 5.8L; "....TIP 1: Since a lot of folks confuse a No Crank Condition with a No Start Condition... I'll clear it up right now: In a No Start Condition means your vehicle's Starter Motor is cranking the Engine but the Engine is not starting. In a No Crank Condition, the Engine is not cranking when you turn the key to crank the Engine. This article only deals with a No Start Condition..." read more

Source: by easyautodiagnostics.com http://troubleshootmyvehicle.com/ford_no_start_4.9L_5.0L_5.8L/diagnose_no_start_1.php

Only good for a trail fix to get you to the store to buy a real cable. -A bad solenoid (Yeah, I said solenoid. Call it a starter relay if you want. I'm old. We've always called it a solenoid, so there. Solenoid, solenoid solenoid). A loose starter that hangs up against the flywheel when it tries to crank. It jams, overloads & drops the voltage. A bad starter. Many auto parts stores will test them. A frozen engine. Serious breakage inside, hydrolocked, rusted solid, badly broken trans keeping the engine from rotating, etc. If you've had both grinding & buzzing, check the starter mounting bolts, since loose bolts can cause both..."

Source: by ElKabong (Ken, El Kabong)

 

Rons beast

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no he is just turning the key on till the mileage shows up and back off but not cranking it till he does this five or six times and my dad told me today it seems like its starving for fuel is that a Fuel pressure regulator problem ???
No, The fuel preasure regulator is in action only after the fuel rail gets preasurized. Your problem sounds like it takes time to get preasure to the rail and injectors.

What happens if you turn the key and crank the engine? Does it crank for a long time, ( greater than 5 seconds) then start?

have you done the check as Miesk5 suggested?

 
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bronco5.8

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thanks guys they could not get my code reader to work so since my trans is out and i have all ready pulled my tank and put in a new sending unit and pump they decided to pull his tank and swap in mine and she ran like a champ I knew 225K on a 351 did not mean it was wore out thanks for all the help

 

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