EGR problems

[Skitter302]

Last week I took Seafoam to my intake to clean it out, and all I did was cause problems. (I used the spray to squirt the intake through the throttle body) Now I have a piece of Carbon stuck in the EGR and my Bronco is running rougher then ever. Do I have to replace my EGR valve or is their an easy way to clean it?

 

[miesk5]

yo SKITTER,

You could clean the in/out passagewith carb cleaner  and actuate valve w/vaccum to check it opens and closes (most parts stores will loan you a hand held vac pump w/gauge for a refundable deposit or tap off an unused port on intake manifold vacuum tree)

 I wouldn't soak it. Just spray the valve and clean the carbon off.

How to Change the EGR Valve on a 1989 F150 With 5.0 (same as your Bronco)

 failed exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) valve on the 5.0L engine of your 1989 Ford F-150 will cause drivability problems. If you have not replaced this valve before in your F-150, do not fret about it. The valve is readily accessible and the repair job is well within the scope of the home mechanic. You can change the valve at home in about an hour with a few common tools you might already own.


Things You'll Need
Wrench set
Ratchet
Short ratchet extension
Socket
Gasket scraper, if necessary
Small Phillips screwdriver, if necessary
Carburetor cleaner, if necessary
Shop rag, if necessary
New EGR valve gasket


Removing the EGR Valve
1
Open the hood and detach the negative (black) battery cable using a wrench.

2
Look for the EGR valve next to the end of the valve cover on the top of the engine. The valve is a small cylinder with an electrical connector on top and a tube connected to its base. Two bolts secure the EGR valve to the intake manifold.

3
Unplug the electrical connector and detach the thin vacuum line from the top of the valve by hand.

4
Disconnect the pipe from the bottom of the EGR valve with an open-end wrench.

5
Unfasten the two valve mounting bolts with a ratchet, short ratchet extension and socket and remove the valve along with the gasket underneath from the engine.

6
Clean the mounting base on the intake manifold with a gasket scraper and remove carbon buildup inside the intake opening with a small Phillips screwdriver, carburetor cleaner and a shop rag, if necessary.

Installing the New EGR Valve
1
Unfasten the three bolts holding the electrical component to the top of the old EGR valve and install it on the new valve with a ratchet, short ratchet extension and socket. This is an EGR valve position (EVP) sensor needed by the computer to determine exhaust gas flow.

2
Position the new EGR valve and new valve gasket on the intake manifold. Install the two mounting bolts and pipe retaining nut finger tight.

3
Tighten the two valve mounting screws with the ratchet, ratchet extension and socket and the pipe retaining nut with the open-end wrench.

4
Plug the electrical connector and attach the thin vacuum line to the top of the EGR valve.

5
Attach the negative (black) battery cable with the wrench and close the hood.

by JOSKO

---------------

Tips

Removal in 92-96; "...If you plan on replacing yours go buy a 1 1/16 wrench you'll need it to get the egr pipe off the egr itself..."
Source: by Bobby (blue) egr pipe Removal Tip in an 89 5.0; "...BE CAREFUL HERE. USE PENETRATING FLUID HERE PRIOR TO REMOVAL. i BROKE ONE ON MY LAST BRONCO AND I HAD TO BUY A NEW ONE FROM THE DEALER FOR ALMOST $100..."
Source: by Waltman  http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/488517/fullsize/change-oil-pan-gasket-and-valve-cover-gasket-024.jpg

 

[Skitter302]

4

Disconnect the pipe from the bottom of the EGR valve with an open-end wrench.

ITs stuck.... now what?

 

[miesk5]

yo

If you have a torch, apply heat and rust penetrant

The tube usually are badly rusted and may need to be replaced.

One VG Source is PCI Inc; great Customer Phone Service!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.pciinc.com/application_search.php?selected_make=FORD TRUCKS A-E&selected_model=BRONCO&app_action=select_mfr&osCsid=9ddb976619f660f4a9ca583c5a5c9f6d
They sell Direct and also thru NAPA, etc
 

Ford Truck Air Tube (EGR)

Ford Truck Manifold Tube

• Two threaded ends and mid-pipe flexible coupling.
• 85-94 Ford trucks, 5.0L 302 eng.
• Replaces O.E. E5TZ-9D477-B.

114 Ford Truck Air Tube (EGR)   $32.18  

ADAPTER to Lower intake from EGR Valve in a 5.0; "...Parts MNGR said it still available @ a few dealerships but is Obsolete, He said the Price is $34.99; Ford MC PN N803575-S51 "22mm";On-line search I did just now gives one good hit (so far): CONNECTOR - Part Number N803575-S51 - asked the mngr if the 96 5.0 Adapter is same as earlier years 5.0 engines and he said, "Yes", 4 JUN 2010"
Source: by miesk5

 NOTE; "...EGR, The 1996 5.0L Air Tube is connected to an exhaust passage in the intake manifold and then goes to the EGR Valve, while the 5.8L is connected to the passenger side exhaust manifold.
 

 

[Skitter302]

Thank you Miesk,

I got the EGR off and cleaned it, but Bronco still runs rough. Its nothing visible on the Tach but can feel that the motor has excessive vibration. So here are my theorys:

Vacuum leaks?

Possibility that the diaphragm in the EGR has a leak in it.

Because all this did start after I used sea-foam maybe carbon is stuck in another place that I haven though of yet? (O2 Sensor?)

Everything was fine till I seafoam'd the engine.

 

[miesk5]

yo Skitter;

Could be that diaphram.

EGR Testing incl EVP

http://www.tomco-inc.com/Tech_Tips/ttt32.pdf

Check for vac hose leaks in area of the EGR valve;

EVP

this is my vac leak test; A vac gauge tapped into intake manifold tree is a great & checp doagnostic tool.  The vacuum gauge should show 18-22 in-Hg @ idle, and maintain a steady needle. Rev it up to ~2500 rpm, hold it steady, and you should see the needle drop, then slowly increase to a level close to the idle reading (though slightly lower is normal)..."

http://broncozone.com/topic/23994-90-58l-getting-continuous-code-33-and-running-co

could be excess carbon build up on the spark plugs, throttle plates or IAC (idle air control motor). Cleaning the throttle body and IAC is a common practice when trying to eliminate possible causes of engines vibrating

Gas Saver Vacuum Gauge

http://www.autoparts2020.com/rsdev/part_detail.jsp?PART_HDR_ID=87069

The EVP EGR Valve is required in EEC systems where EGR flow is controlled by the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) through an EGR Valve Position (EVP) sensor attached to the valve.

The valve is operated by a vacuum signal from the EGR Vacuum Regulator (EVR) Solenoid (9J459) which actuates the valve diaphragm.

As supply vacuum overcomes the spring load, the diaphragm is actuated. This lifts the pintle off its seat allowing exhaust gas to recirculate (flow). The amount of flow is proportional to the pintle position. The EVP sensor mounted on the valve sends an electrical signal of its position to the PCM (12A650).

The EGR valve for this system is a vacuum operated EGR valve which maintains a sonic flow in the valve seat/pintle area.

The EVP sensor (9G428 ) and EGR valve (9H473) are serviced separately.

EGR Valve Position (EVP) Sensor - 9G428
The EVP sensor provides the EEC system with a signal indicating position of the EGR valve.

EGR Vacuum Regulator (EVR) Solenoid - 9J459
The EGR Vacuum Regulator (EVR) solenoid is an electromagnetic device which controls vacuum output to the EGR valve. An electric current in the coil induces a magnetic field in the armature which pulls on a disk closing the vent to atmosphere. The Powertrain Control Module (PCM) outputs a duty cycle to the EVR which regulates the vacuum level to the EGR valve. As the duty cycle is increased, so is the vacuum signal to the EGR valve. The vacuum source is manifold vacuum.
Vacuum Reservoir - 9E453
The Vacuum Reservoir (coffee can) stores vacuum and provides "muscle" vacuum. It prevents rapid fluctuations or sudden drops in a vacuum signal such as those seen during an acceleration period.

Vacuum Reservoir Diagnosis -
When charged initially with 51-67 kPa (15-20 in-Hg) vacuum, vacuum loss shall not exceed 2 kPa (.5 in-Hg) in 60 seconds. If it does, replace the reservoir.

Vacuum Check Valve -12A197
A vacuum check valve blocks airflow in one direction and frees airflow in the other direction. The check side of this valve will hold the highest vacuum seen on the vacuum side. If not, replace it.

Vacuum Check Valve Diagnosis -
Apply 54 kPa (16 in-Hg) vacuum to "check" side of valve and trap. If vacuum remains above 50.6 kPa (15 in-Hg) for 10 seconds, the valve is acceptable

 

[Skitter302]

I did the KOEO and got codes 13 and 14

and the KOER and got 13 and 25

I can't find my vacuum gauge to test.

 

[miesk5]

yo SKITTER,

DTC 13 Cannot control RPM during ER Self-Test, low RPM & Possible Causes; "...vacuum leak, use garden hose section to listen for leak noise; TB base idle off- Idle Air Control (IAC) Sludge; Poor Idle TSB 91-25-07 for 85-92 Bronco & F Series & many others; air bypass valve dirty or bad..." READ MORE
Source: by miesk5

if in Key On Engine Off test IAC did not respond properly (extends to touch throttle then retracts for KOEO test)

vaccum leak, use garden hose section to listen for leak noise;
TB base idle off- Idle Air Control (IAC) Sludge; Poor Idle TSB 91-25-07 for 85-92 Bronco & F Series & many others; "...Hard cold starts, hesitation and stalls on initial start-up or during idle or decel may be caused by sludge in the throttle body and/or idle by-pass valve. Sludge deposits or oil film on the throttle body bore and plate or the idle air by-pass valve may cause one or more of the following conditions. Hard Cold Start, Stall On Initial Start-Up, Stall During Idle, Stall During Decel, Rough Idle, Rolling Idle, Hesitation During Acceleration. A new idle air by-pass service kit (F2PZ-9F939-A) is now available for service use to correct sludge contamination concerns of the throttle bore and plate only. It eliminates the need to clean the majority of past model throttle body applications. Cleaning is not required on sludge tolerant throttle body designs released for 1991 and newer model years..."
Source: by Ford via Steve at http://www.supermotors.net/registry/media/724437idle air bypass valve dirty or bad -Overview & Testing; "First let me say this little thing has many names. But they all talk about the same item under the hood. Here all the names I’ve had the torture of learning throughout the years: Idle Air Bypass •Idle Air Control •Idle Speed Control •Throttle Bypass Air •Idle Bypass •Inlet Air Controller •Inlet Air Bypass •Intake Air Bypass •Intake Air Control..."
Source: by Ryan M (Fireguy50) at http://fordfuelinjection.com/index.php?p=39EGR stuck open

Vacuum Leak Test; On an idling engine check for vacuum leaks using a mechanic's stethoscope with the probe removed, or a ~3' garden hose section. Don't spray flammables on a running engine. MIESK5 NOTE; Also check: vacuum hoses; intake manifold gasket & throttle body; PCV line; vacuum reservoirs: EGR Sys Vacuum Tank & 2ndry air (coffee can); AC, heater, defroster, vent control ckt & vacuum tank (plastic ball type), under dash & lines to heat/blend/etc. doors; power brake booster; cruise control ckt, etc.... where applicable

14   X   Two or more successive erratic Profile Ignition Pickup (PIP) pulses occurred, resulting in a possible engine miss or stall. DTC 14 & 18; Profile Ignition Pickup (PIP) & Troubleshooting; "...The top three leads (for PIP signal) can lose continuity with the back plate (ground) on the module when the unit is hot. You should consider a remote mounted TFI. If your TFI is failing from heat, it can give off computer codes 14 (PIP) and 18 (SPOUT). stalling/dieing or sputtering when hot but runs when it cools off. This can be caused by a faulty TFI and the biggest culprits are heat. Another culprit can be a wire grounding out. Problematic TFI's can give off codes 14 (PIP) and 18 (SPOUT). This can be caused by a loose electrical connector, or bad secondary ignition components, distributor cap, rotor, ignition wires or spark plugs..." read more
Source: by therangerstation.com

25     X Knock not sensed during dynamic test. (KOER); ignore if not pinging
Source: by miesk5

 

[Skitter302]

Miesk,

Thank you again for all the info you have posted up. My next post will be my findings of that the problem is/was.

 

[Skitter302]

11/7/13 Update:

99% sure No vacuum leak. I had the upper intake cleaned and the throttle body was also cleaned. The Bronco feels better but still has a roughness when sitting in place with the Transmission in drive. (~700-800 RPM)