Is anyone familiar with the auto hubs enough to describe the function of the bearing and spring inside the hub? I am having trouble with mine dissengaging only when the spring is applying preasure to the bearing while the caps are on. If I run them w/o the bearing and spring installed, I have zero issues going from 2hi-4hi-4lo and back out to 2hi with repetition. I can't figure out how the bearing and spring impact the performance of the hub. Any knowledge or insight would be GREATLY appreciated.
Auto Hub Function
- Thread starter AZ91
- Start date
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yo,
Operational Test in a 96; "...Automatic Locking Hubs: Raise vehicle on a hoist so that all wheels are off the ground. Start engine (6007) with vehicle in neutral and transfer case in two-wheel drive. Front wheels should spin freely by hand. Put transfer case in 4WD and put vehicle in gear. Front and rear wheels should rotate together. Put vehicle in neutral and spin front wheels by hand in the forward direction. The front axle and front driveshaft should rotate with the wheels. The additional load of the drivetrain components should be felt once the hub has been engaged. To disengage the hubs, spin the wheels in the opposite direction until an audible click is heard. Spin wheels forward again and they should rotate freely without the axle and driveshaft rotating. Repeat the procedure, only shift into 4-wheel drive and put the vehicle in reverse. This time the hubs should release when the front wheels are spun in the forward direction. NOTE: While the vehicle is hoisted, shift into 4-wheel drive from a dead stop and not while rear wheels are rotating in order to avoid slamming the hub locks into the lock position.
Road Test; When checking front hubs for proper operation, road test the vehicle to make sure the hubs will remain engaged while under load. This is accomplished by engaging 4-wheel drive and taking the vehicle through several turns (both forward and backward) on dry pavement. This will put an additional load on the front wheel at the outside of the turn because it is traveling the greatest distance. Driving through several turns while traveling in different directions will make sure that both sides of the hub teeth have been tested under load. Hubs that are not sufficiently engaged will pop out when loaded. This is due to the driveline releasing windup and is an indication of hub malfunction.
If slippage is suspected, mark the tire and axle shaft with chalk (after locking the hub) and apply a heavy torque load several times. Then inspect your original indexing marks. If they are no longer aligned, the hubs are not remaining locked when under load. They will have to be replaced. Should hublocks become submerged in water or mud for a long period of time, water may get past the seals and into the hubs and axle. In this case, all water must be expelled from the system. The axle must be drained by loosening the axle cover and 4x4 Gear Oil F1TZ-19580-A (WSL-M2C191-A) used to refill the axle (F1TZ-19580-A has no equivalent). Disassemble the hubs using procedures in this section and repack the wheel bearings using procedures in this section and dry off the hublocks. Reassemble hubs using procedures in this section. Refer to Section 05-03A or Section 05-03B for replacement of outer axle shaft seals or spindle inner seal and bearing..." from 1996 F-150, F-250, F-350, and Bronco Workshop Manual
How was the grease in the hub? Too much can cause that issue as well as too little or contamonated grease
In the manual hub, locking occurred when the locking **** was turned by hand. In the automatic hub, it is front axle shaft rotation that locks the hub.
Raise the vehicle and install safety stands.
Remove the hublock assembly. Refer to Automatic Locking Hub removal and installation in this section.
Remove retaining lock ring or C-ring and three-piece ****** washers. Remove cam assembly and wheel nut retaining key (if not already removed).
Loosen wheel bearing retainer (nut) using Hub Nut Wrench T95T-1197-A for F-150 and Bronco or T95T-1197-B for F-250 and F-350 with automatic locking hubs. While rotating rotor and hub, retighten wheel bearing retainer (nut) to 68 Nm (50 lb-ft) to seat wheel bearings.
Back off nut 90 degrees (1/4 turn). Tighten wheel retainer nut to 1.8 Nm (16 lb-in). If necessary, tighten nut to next slot to allow installation of retainer key.
Install retaining key into the spindle keyway by inserting the short leg into the aligned slot in nut. Press all the way into position until curved portion of retaining key is seated into counterbore of wheel retainer (nut).
3 ***** Diagram for 5/95-96 Source: by Ford via thedieselstop.com
Read through this when you have time;
Four Wheel Drive (4X4) General Information, Operation & Troubleshooting TSB 92-1-8 for Bronco, F Series & Ranger (COMPLETE); Includes Electric Shift On The Fly (ESOF) Troubleshooting & Hub Operation; same for 87-96; exc for that in 87; power from Fuse 6 (15 amp) to "ELECT SHIFT CONTROL MOD" WHT-PPL and CB 12 (30amp) to "ELECT SHIFT CONTROL MOD" BLK-WHT; SEE A7 and A8 in the 4x4 diagram, it shows those two wires BLK-WHT as BK/W from SHIFT MODULE to P1 BATTY and and WHT-PPL as W/P to P2 Source: by Ford via Chilton
See Page 4 for AUTOMATIC LOCKING HUBS
As long as the vehicle is in 2WD, the front wheels turn freely on the front axle. However, when the vehicle is shifted into 4WD, the front axle shafts begin to rotate. This rotation actuates that cam that moves the locking gear into locked position. See fig 11 on page 18
Miesk -
Deffinately the most thoughtful answer I've seen on this subject so far. Thank you.
I still don't see anything that points to the specific function of the spring and bearing that apply preasure to the hub when the cap is installed. Like I said - the crazy part is that they work great without them installed. I've run them in and out of 4x4 and done some light wheeling with no adverse effect.
I live in AZ so I don't have any rust that has made it's way into the hubs and I keep them in great shape. I've become pretty familiar with them over the years and multiple Broncos, but the spring and bearing have me stumped. I don't want to just move past it since they work and find out at inopportune time why thet are needed...
I appreciate you taking the time to help and not give the popular answer on this subject. It's been made very clear to me that very few people have any real knowledge on the auto hubs.
Deffinately the most thoughtful answer I've seen on this subject so far. Thank you.
I still don't see anything that points to the specific function of the spring and bearing that apply preasure to the hub when the cap is installed. Like I said - the crazy part is that they work great without them installed. I've run them in and out of 4x4 and done some light wheeling with no adverse effect.
I live in AZ so I don't have any rust that has made it's way into the hubs and I keep them in great shape. I've become pretty familiar with them over the years and multiple Broncos, but the spring and bearing have me stumped. I don't want to just move past it since they work and find out at inopportune time why thet are needed...
I appreciate you taking the time to help and not give the popular answer on this subject. It's been made very clear to me that very few people have any real knowledge on the auto hubs.
yo
I replied in your other post about same here: http://broncozone.com/topic/21558-auto-locking-hubs/
Fill in your profile and/or insert into your questions your Bronco's;
Year, engine/transmission, Xfer case, & hub type (such as 3 ***** or 5 ***** cap-automatic...etc.)
and any major modifications such as Front Drive Axle Repalcement with a Dana 60.. etc.
Following describes various hub ops because of changes from MY to MY by Ford; so your year, hub type. etc makes a difference.
Wheel Bearing primary purpose that is allow wheels to rotate w/ minimal friction & to support the vehicle's weight. If you are ref. to something else, please take time to look @ the diagram Link I posted for you and ID the "bearing" you are discussing.
Spring
Short Version; it keeps the hub's "locking gear" away from gear sets on axle in "Free" or un-locked mode....
see this diagram;
Also, in the Manual I posted; see page 3 for
"...Turning the **** activates a cam that compresses pressure spring #1 (Figure 9). This spring pressure forces the inner clutch ring, which is attached (splined) to the wheel, over the axle shaft sleeve and ring on the axle. At the same time, spring #2 is compressed and remains that way as long as the hub is locked.
Figure 10 shows the actual change in the position of the components from free to locked. If the gear teeth are not quite lined up (butted), the inner clutch ring teeth may not always engage at first when the **** is turned to lock. However, a slight rotation of the wheel, either forward or rearward, will allow the inner clutch ring and the axle shaft sleeve ring to mate once they are properly aligned. This locking movement occurs because pressure spring #1 is under compression and is exerting force against the inner clutch ring..."
Read more... I have other things to do
================
As a guess, here is a 3 ***** Automatic Locking Hub Parts Description & pics, 5/95-96;
"...The 2 items at the far L are one complete hub lock assembly piled together.
The top center is the hub lock body. Bottom center is the cap with 3 ***** holes.
Top R are the cam & large (outer) C-ring (which retains the lock body in the hub).
Lower R (upper row) are: the large single wheel bearing adjusting hex-nut; the adjusting nut lock clip; the steel splined ****** washer; (lower row) the small (inner) C-ring (which retains the axle stub shaft in the spindle); the plastic ****** washer; and the steel ****** washer..."
Source: by Steve83 (Steve, That dirty old truck) at SuperMotors.net
I replied in your other post about same here: http://broncozone.com/topic/21558-auto-locking-hubs/
Fill in your profile and/or insert into your questions your Bronco's;
Year, engine/transmission, Xfer case, & hub type (such as 3 ***** or 5 ***** cap-automatic...etc.)
and any major modifications such as Front Drive Axle Repalcement with a Dana 60.. etc.
Following describes various hub ops because of changes from MY to MY by Ford; so your year, hub type. etc makes a difference.
Wheel Bearing primary purpose that is allow wheels to rotate w/ minimal friction & to support the vehicle's weight. If you are ref. to something else, please take time to look @ the diagram Link I posted for you and ID the "bearing" you are discussing.
Spring
Short Version; it keeps the hub's "locking gear" away from gear sets on axle in "Free" or un-locked mode....
see this diagram;
Also, in the Manual I posted; see page 3 for
"...Turning the **** activates a cam that compresses pressure spring #1 (Figure 9). This spring pressure forces the inner clutch ring, which is attached (splined) to the wheel, over the axle shaft sleeve and ring on the axle. At the same time, spring #2 is compressed and remains that way as long as the hub is locked.
Figure 10 shows the actual change in the position of the components from free to locked. If the gear teeth are not quite lined up (butted), the inner clutch ring teeth may not always engage at first when the **** is turned to lock. However, a slight rotation of the wheel, either forward or rearward, will allow the inner clutch ring and the axle shaft sleeve ring to mate once they are properly aligned. This locking movement occurs because pressure spring #1 is under compression and is exerting force against the inner clutch ring..."
Read more... I have other things to do
================
As a guess, here is a 3 ***** Automatic Locking Hub Parts Description & pics, 5/95-96;
"...The 2 items at the far L are one complete hub lock assembly piled together.
The top center is the hub lock body. Bottom center is the cap with 3 ***** holes.
Top R are the cam & large (outer) C-ring (which retains the lock body in the hub).
Lower R (upper row) are: the large single wheel bearing adjusting hex-nut; the adjusting nut lock clip; the steel splined ****** washer; (lower row) the small (inner) C-ring (which retains the axle stub shaft in the spindle); the plastic ****** washer; and the steel ****** washer..."
Source: by Steve83 (Steve, That dirty old truck) at SuperMotors.net
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks again. I appreciate your help.
I have a 91 w/ the 5 ***** caps. I was refering to the bearing that is held in place by the spring just inside the cap.
There was a lot of info related to malfunctioning engagement of the hub, but nothing that I could find on them not properly dissengaging. I can see where the spring would seem to assist in the dissengagement of the hubs, but am still stumped with my experience. They work great without the spring and bearing installed...
I have a 91 w/ the 5 ***** caps. I was refering to the bearing that is held in place by the spring just inside the cap.
There was a lot of info related to malfunctioning engagement of the hub, but nothing that I could find on them not properly dissengaging. I can see where the spring would seem to assist in the dissengagement of the hubs, but am still stumped with my experience. They work great without the spring and bearing installed...
yo,
YW,
ok, here it is;
Altho the following is for Manual Hubs, the springs, cam, inner & outer clutch gear (also ref to as rings) are shown in this DANA PDFDiagram On Page 6,
see, 9 – Pressure Spring
see 7 cam
see 10 outer & & 16 inner clutch gear
Dana says the inner & outer clutch gear (also ref to as rings) are subject to wear (more than other hub parts) and will cause malfunction.
See page 10 for similar info on the Internal Type Sliding Tooth Design Hub
Here, Warn includes the CAM wear in Locked malfunctionsin addition to the aforementioned inner & outer clutch "rings"
Warn, as Ford does, changes nomenclature from page to page to ball up troubleshooting and parts ID
5-***** Auto Hub Lock
5-***** Lock Disassembled
btw, this morning, I saw an 89 with a Dodge (Warn) hub on one side. They are similar, but Ace Hardware lady complained that her hubby said not to place it in 4x4.
YW,
ok, here it is;
Altho the following is for Manual Hubs, the springs, cam, inner & outer clutch gear (also ref to as rings) are shown in this DANA PDFDiagram On Page 6,
see, 9 – Pressure Spring
see 7 cam
see 10 outer & & 16 inner clutch gear
Dana says the inner & outer clutch gear (also ref to as rings) are subject to wear (more than other hub parts) and will cause malfunction.
See page 10 for similar info on the Internal Type Sliding Tooth Design Hub
Here, Warn includes the CAM wear in Locked malfunctionsin addition to the aforementioned inner & outer clutch "rings"
Warn, as Ford does, changes nomenclature from page to page to ball up troubleshooting and parts ID
5-***** Auto Hub Lock
5-***** Lock Disassembled
btw, this morning, I saw an 89 with a Dodge (Warn) hub on one side. They are similar, but Ace Hardware lady complained that her hubby said not to place it in 4x4.
Last edited by a moderator:
I still can't come up with anything diagnosing malfunction durring dissengagement... They work flawlessly w/o the spring applying preasure to the bearing (both listed as 1K106). I would move on without them but am fairly confident that there will be another problem down the road.
It seems that these 2 parts aid in the dissengaging of hub and prevent involuntary engagement under normal 2x4 drving conditions. That's just my 1st grade guess at it though.
It seems that these 2 parts aid in the dissengaging of hub and prevent involuntary engagement under normal 2x4 drving conditions. That's just my 1st grade guess at it though.
