'73 EB 302 Auto. Starting Issues!!!!!!&#33

[bigbeardbiii]

Hi guys,

    I checked numerous posts relative to starting issues, timing gears & chain, dizzy's,, ignition issues, starter solenoid, etc... but found nothing to answer my issues so here goes: It had been sitting since '97. Put new rear tank,, fuel sending unit & gauge & fuel pump on, put a little gas in carburetor, new battery & it cranked right up. The points burned up. Put new points in but one of the hold down ***** holes was stripped so, put a washer in with new points (they stayed in place but were a little loose. Next, New Master & wheel cylinders, stainless brake lines, hoses, new tires, & a 4 row racing radiator. Ran like a champ for several weeks then, shortly after cranking up I descended down a small incline in a driveway & it stalled. Put in neutral & cranked right back up & ran solid & smooth on the next 10 miles. Stopped @ a red light & went dead again, neutral & cranked right up & got me home. Next day, it cranked right up & after driving 5+/- miles it began to stall & steam was coming from engine bay. Opened the hood & the top radiator hose was collapsed.  At this point I ordered a new distributor & top radiator hose because I knew the loose points were an issue. Replaced the distributor & hose, got it as close to TDC as possible (the only marks I could find on my original harmonic balancer was "ATC" & about an inch away what looked like a "10"(?)). I drove it 65-75 mph at times going to parts store to get a timing light. After returning home & trying to exact the timing, I drove it around neighborhood 10+x's (after moving 1/16" to 1/8" to either side). During which point it suddenly wouldn't crank at all. Thinking it was out of gas I put around 2 gallons in from my gas can & drove (sputtering all the way) to the store & it only held 9 gallons (13 gallon rear tank ONLY) so, obviously it wasn't out of gas). Got it back home & it was sluggish all the way but made it. Since then, it wouldn't stay cranked. Sometimes when slightly adjusting the distributor to either side it would stay cranked once out of 50 or so times for about 10 seconds & then go dead. Since that point, I have replaced the following: 1. Plugs (NO DIFFERENCE), 2. plug wires (NO DIFFERENCE), 3. distributor cap (NO DIFFERENCE), 4. rotor button (NO DIFFERENCE), 5. oil pressure gauge, 6. starter solenoid, 7. ignition (what a bi*ch putting that & the bezel back in), 8. carburetor (Guaranteed Carburetors)(NO DIFFERENCE), 9. the external aftermarket clear plastic fuel filter's paper filter on the inside was floating around so , I replaced it (NO DIFFERENCE), 10. replaced the factory fuel filter (brass tube) that connects to the carburetor (was literally full of brown rusty metal particles)(NO DIFFERENCE), & 11. finally heavy duty (racing) timing gears & chain (NO DIFFERENCE)!!!!!! Today, I pulled the LH valve cover & while a buddy would turn the ignition I checked the valves & all are in working order going up & down 1/4"-1/2"! I absolutely have NO IDEA what to do next & neither does any of the 5-6 guys that have been in & out throughout the debacle!!!! SOMEBODY PLEASE ASSIST ME WITH THIS MYSTERY!!!... To recap, after putting new distributor on it ran 65-75 mph but would sputter on initial acceleration, then began getting worse & finally will only turn over but will not crank & idle. I have replaced everything I know to that would have anything to do with starting & idling & it will turn over but will NOT run @ all (even with putting gas or Seafoam directly into carburetor)! Any assistance would be GREATLY appreciated before I go broke with nothing to show for it!

 

[Bully Bob]

Hi Big Beard.., welcome.!

WOW...!   Now THAT is the way to write up a discription/problem...!!! /   A+ on that..!

"At this point I ordered a new distributor..."

Did you get an electronic dizzy or a stock pointed one..?

Can you tell if the + wire on the coil is a "resistor" wire..?

Or does it have the white porcelain resister  mounted to the block..?

If it's a pointed dizzy.., it should start on 12v --- run on 6v

Turn the key on (not start).., volt meter the  +  side of coil. It should read 6-7v

Turn the key to "start" & have someone check to see if  + side of coil reads 12v.

(If the eng. is running on constant 12v.., that's ******* the points)

Clean the harmonic bal. & mark TDC with white-out or white chock or the like.

Timing should be between the TDC & that 10.., usually 7-8deg. with vac.  advance line off the dizzy.

A coil can act up as you describe.... With timing light hooked up & eng. runn'n,

the spark should be steady meaning a steady consistant light flash.

Let's start from these & see what results you get.... :-B

 

[bigbeardbiii]

Bully Bob,

   It has a stock type dizzy, when changing out the timing gears & chain, I scribed a line for TDC in harm. balancer & sorry for not mentioning it but Saturday after the new timing chain & gears didn't fix the problem we checked the voltage on the coil and it was around _/- 9v so, I went & got a new one and it went up to +/- 12v but made NO DIFFERENCE in turning the engine over. I will try what you suggested & let you know.

 

[Bully Bob]

It should be around 12v (on coil +) with the key switch in the "start" position

Key in  "run"  position (engine not running), it should be +- 6v 

Engine running.., it could be some what higher than 6v  (7v 8v 9v maybe)

 

[bigbeardbiii]

Thanks,

     We checked on the actual coil voltage. We are meeting to work on it again on Thursday & I will check the way you stated. Thanks

 

[Bully Bob]

Just a "heads-up" 

The words; crank, turn over, (even: spin, rotate) etc..,  mean the starter motor is rotating the engine.

The words; start(s), run(s), (even: fired, fired up)  means the engine is doing its thing.., purring away.

This saves confusion when members are trying to get a feel as to what's actually happening. 

Again, no biggie, just a time saver.

Did you check to see if it has a resistor wire -or- an in-line resistor..?

Another test is to run a jumper wire from + on the battery to + on the coil.

Turn key to "start" ..., see if eng. runs normally.

You'll have to remove the wire to get eng. to stop with key in "off " position.

Again, this wire provides a full 12v to the points. Not meant for permanent continued running.

 

[bigbeardbiii]

Update, I did blow out all the fuel lines from the tank to the fuel pump and from the fuel pump to the carb., installed a new fuel pump, new brass fuel filter, a new secondary fuel filter (clear bubble w/a yellow filter to where I could see when gas was being pumped to that point), and then installed a newly rebuilt carb from "Guaranteed Carburetors". As for the distributor, the bore did not have any rust apparent or excessive oil when removing the old one and installing a new one. Again, all plug wires and plugs are new as well. They were installed in the correct order. However, Tuesday we took the rad., alternator, & timing cover back off to recheck the timing gears & eccentric and everything appeared to be good. We then blew a rag out of the #1 plug hole & still got nothing. Then, we checked the distributor again, and in order for it to sit flush into the hole the rotor pin is either up toward fifth or down toward eighth plug wire. After replacing the timing cover we, then moved the plug wires one spot, counter clock wise & it cranked. We, then replaced everything in front of the timing cover. Then, when trying to cranked to either ****** or advance the distributor for the best idle possible, it was immediately back to where it as before the tear down (would spin but not crank or if it did crank it sounded awful and would only stay running for 5-6 seconds).... We were dumbfounded once again!!!!! Is the ONLY way the dizzy won't seat to where the rotor button is sitting directly on the #1 wire is if it is off a tooth or more on the chain? That is the ONLY thing I can think of at this point! I hate to have to tear it all down again but will if it could be the reason but again, by spinning and not cranking it is acting just as it did before the new: dizzy, carb., fuel pump, fuel filters, timing chain and gears, plugs, & plug wire installs. Also, last week I took the two vacuum lines off the dizzy to cam & replaced them with new rubbers. I remember someone stating at some point in this mess that the vacuum lines are NOT suppose to go directly from the dizzy to carb. but that's the way they were when I bought it & it was running. Thanks, Dean

 

[Bully Bob]

"Is the ONLY way the dizzy won't seat to where the rotor button is sitting directly on the #1 wire is if it is off a tooth or more on the chain? That is the ONLY thing I can think of at this point!"

The dizzy will seat at any point in a 360deg. arc. 

You have to keep rotating the rotor a bit after you pull up slightly on the dizzy body. It will drop & seat in two places 180deg. from ea. other.

As you rotate.., it will move these drop points  a few degrees.

Eventually, it will drop close to pointing at #1 tab in the dizzy cap.  Then turning the dizzy body to get the exact alignment.

This just takes a "feel"

Be sure you have the plug wires in the correct holes.

The vac ports are on the lower part of the carb. or base plate.

If the timing marks lined up on the gears when installed.., your gears & chain should be OK.

 

[bigbeardbiii]

IT RUNS! IT RUNS! IT RUNS! I wanted to update the thread since we last worked on the Bronco Friday and got it running! The new points were burnt! Now it is running but it seems to only be getting about 6 miles to the gallon and I have no idea why. When putting into drive it seems to shift into second gear within 3 or 4 seconds and I can't tell that it shifts into third at all. If this is the case, I assume that would definitely cause it to burn gas a lot faster. However, could it be anything else and how can I determine if it is shifting into third or not since I can't hear or feel it change while driving? Does the passing gear arm that feeds up to the throttle linkage from the transmission suppose to have a bolt that only holds it? Because when I bought the Bronco it was not connected and was laying on the back of the engine. Scrape marks on the driver's side of it appear to match perfectly where the hole for the spring goes but the end of the spring is not long enough to clip into the throttle hole and also hold the passing gear arm too. Therefore, I slid it on the pin at the top and then pressed the linkage arm that is closed on the end onto the pin to hold the passing gear arm. If this isn't the correct place and could be the reason for my issues (no, there is no gas leak anywhere)? Thanks  

 

[Bully Bob]

You're due to fill-in all your profile info. That way, we don't have to ask you a bunch of questions that should

be already known.  (see mine left & bottom of ea. post.)  (updatable at any time)

Some members won't bother answering W/O that info. (@ guessing game)

The kick-down rod is pretty important however, don't know what carb you have....

Check the modulator on the pass. side of the trannie.  (Also controls shifting.)

That said.., you could have deeper issues in the trannie.

Best to start a new thread..., one about trannie issues..... B)

 

[bigbeardbiii]

Thanks Bully Bob. I thought about posting a new thread and will do so now.