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66-96 Ford Broncos - Early & Full Size

ShadetreeSeattle

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About ShadetreeSeattle

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    Duck Tape L'fixer :)

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  • Favorite Bronco Year?
    1980

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  1. in short form, finally fixed the startup issue. it was the cam gear not being installed properly by some shmoe in oregon two years ago. it was not pressed on all the way causing the timing to be loose, causing ignition to light the plugs too early, probably also causing the stalling issue. egr valve solenoid recap: (thanks for the info @miesk5!) the info posted was quite useful in helping troubleshoot the egr solenoid situation. the subaru one ended up not working out, as the computer had a tough time controlling it over the ford one. was plumbed the same, but it seemed to need a shorter duty cycle to open x ammount over the ford one... (the computer would rapidly cycle the egr open and closed with the subaru one, whereas the ford one would have a steady control of the egr diaphram) this caused the pulsating at throttle issue. so there's that. haha. lesson learned... startup fix long story: As, for the other issues i posted about originally with this vehicle, (the startup issue specifically) i ended up bringing the rig back to my shop over the weekend and decided to take another look. so to reiterate the original still withstanding issue that plagues this rig, it ran ok more often than not if it started, but always cranked super slow. to the degree that even a moderately good battery would not be able to spin the engine up fast enough. ran new wiring all around for the starter sometime last year... (new engine block ground right to the starter, new 12v line from solenoid to starter, new 12v line from battery to solenoid, new frame ground. even used copper washers between connections to really get them connected well. also tried two different starters. did ok with a fresh battery, but STILL would really tax the battery good if it needed to crank for a while, which usually was the case when it was warmed up and attempting a restart... (like if you stopped at the gas station, etc.) i realized a while ago that if the ignition was unplugged it would crank easily. so i started going down that path again this weekend of why it cranks hard when ignition is plugged in. so i warmed it up in the shop and started doing some testing.. was it carbon lighting fuel prematurely and causing over advanced ignition of fuel while starting? hmm. disconnecting the coil only (not the whole ignition module) proved that to not be the case as it cranked fine while injectors were firing, minus spark. plug coil back in and it cranks slow as f. was the distributor to blame? tried another known good motorcraft dizzy, still the same issue... so i pulled the engine bay harness and completely split away the ignition related stuff from the rest of it, then taped back up the engine harness and plugged back in everything.. decided while i was there to come up with a remote mount module plan as i never liked the dizzy mount setup. i will post a separate article about how i did the remote mount project as i think people will find that info useful. anyways, inspected each wire to make sure there was no hidden damage, like splices, nicks, etc. made sure rf shield was intact on all signaling wiring, no shorts, nothing stood out as a problem. got the fender mount grey push start module installed and made a 'dummy' module on the distributor that caries out the spout signal to the fender mount module. super cool project! but alas, the bronco still has this problem when it gets hot, where it cranks slow. in fact, now sometimes it just does it even when cold. now i'm wondering if it's camshaft or timing gear related as i have exhausted all other options here. it always made a terrible sound at idle and when coming off throttle, and seemed to be coming from the timing cover. never got into it b/c my friend who owns rig said it was replaced two years ago... alas, my curiosity got the best of me and so into the timing cover i go. pull the radiator, pull harmonic balancer, pull cover, and what do i discover? the asshat that replaced the gear for my friend two years ago pressed it on halfway.. (cam was 3/8 inch inside the cam gear still instead of 1/16 out like i usually see them. the sound it was making was the cam walking in and out, contacting the cover. the guy also stripped out the bolts on the timing cover to the oil pan and ruined the front main seal by not properly aligning the cover when reinstalling. i realized that the distributor's timing was probably affected by the walking of the cam... although not by too much? since the clearances inside the timing cover are still pretty small. but i sure was not going to leave it that way, even if this didn't fix the problem. so i picked up a steel/aluminum timing set and pulled the fiber pos that was on there. so i get the gear off and the half moon shaped key was to blame for why the dude had not been able to get the gear on all the way. (it slid back and out) i also broke the thrust plate while removing the gear... so off to the junkyard, to get a timing cover and thrust plate.. get back and continue on the job... i'm getting ready to pull the crank gear so that the new aluminum one can be mated to a matched set and i discover the Fn crank gear has no puller bolt holes... great. made up a heat shield so i didn't burn the oil pan gasket and started map gassing the crank gear to get it to expand... sprayed it with some pb blaster, wedged some chizles behind each side and was able to get it far enough off i could fit a (modified) jaw puller on it. what a pita. thought i was going to ruin the thrust bearing on the crank or bbq the front bearing by blowtorching... got it off finally. phew. proceed with rest of installation which went fine from thereafter. aluminum gear pressed on much easier than the steel ones i have done before. i'd also like to do a writeup someday about timing gear swaps, since there's quite a few ways people can screw this job up. get it all back together and guess what. it totally did fix the problem. while i was pressing the cam gear on i had the dizzy cap off to see how much the rotor moved per camshaft travel and was surprised to find the rotor moves quite a lot for even 1/8 inch of end play on the camshaft. this made me feel pretty confident in that i had found my problem. get it all back together and not a problem so far whatsoever. can't believe the cam wasn't damaged from 2 years of misalignment. drives better than it ever did. starts instantly, whether hot or cold. problem solved. moral of the story, the cam gear if not pressed all the way in can absolutely cause a cranks slow issue, as well as sloppy timing. even with only being able to travel in and out 1/8 an inch within the timing cover. hope this info helps someone else out there. it's also worth noting the 4.9 inline 6 survives this kind of abuse. haha.
  2. i was able to find a 'low profile' set of 1/4 and 3/8 drive sockets from oreallys that dealt with the torx bolt on those 5.0/5.8 upper plenums... pretty sure that was a day where i went back to the auto parts store twice. super annoying. the oreally part number for the low pro sockets was Part # GM8387 Line code: PTT. worked great for me.
  3. i have had within the past year on two separate 4.9 inline six's (two separate vehicles) the roll pin shear off, causing a no spark situation. the distributors were both from 'spectra premium' a supplier that you can find on line and at o'reilly autoparts. one was a part number FD11 (for late 70's 4.9's) the other an FD10 for 80's 4.9's with the distributor mounted TFI. I, at this point believe it to be a manufacturing error over install error. at first i thought the roll pin was made of pot metal, but upon closer examination i realized that these gears they use are not pressed on but fit with a sloppy tolerance. the motorcraft distributor gears are pressed on, however these spectra premium distributors, the gear slides on and off with no effort w/o the pin in place. this i believe causes the gear to wander on the axis of the roll pin damaging it. in both cases of roll pin failure, the oil pump turns freely with a drill, and the distributor as well. in both cases they also seemed to be getting oil from the block too as the dizzy shaft was oiled. in both cases of the pin shearing off, the gear fell into the engine (and thankfully hit the oil pan) when i removed the distributor. the first engine this happened on, i removed the oil pan to re-seal and pull the gear out. no signs of excess gear wear, and a junkyard motorcraft distributor in both of em has lasted so far. the first one, i thought might be a defect, or perhaps some error i made installing it... however i was privy to making sure the pump shaft seats properly and that it's not machined to tall or something like that causing a bottoming out. the first one i installed made it 3 months, and the second one i installed made it 9 months before these failures occurred. it's also important to note neither of the original distributors failed as a result of the gear coming loose. the late 70's one had the pickup wiring rot off of it, and the 80's one i misdiagnosed and put a new one in it. the 80's model FD10 with the distributor mounted module also had a misalignment with the pip's three pin plug and the module causing the module's pins to sit beside the female pins instead of inside them. i don't believe this to have been an issue as they still made contact, but it's just another thing noted that makes me believe crappy engineering as it was assembled that way. i figured i'd drop a line here about it and see if other's had a similar problem. on other sites i have read similar issues with mallory aftermarket distributors as well, although never personally dealt with one of those. i might add, the job was also difficult to diagnose on the 2nd one as the gear grabbed back on to what was left of the pin and turned the first time, leading me down the wrong path for a bit, till i tried to set the engine to tdc and then realized it was not spinning the 2nd time i looked at it. the oreilly guys thought i was crazy as they had never heard of such a thing. haha. they acted like i was taking money outta their pockets when i said i wasn't about to find out 3 times if this was a manufacturing defect. anyways. just thought i'd drop a line about this. cheers ya all. if anyone has experience with these problems or has one from this supplier still runnin strong, i'd like to know.
  4. Yo, Have you done much work on Ford Rangers? I've got a question about the electrical system.

    1. Show previous comments  3 more
    2. Skitter302

      Skitter302

      I'm a HVAC service tech by trade. Tracking down bad wiring or finding bad parts is what I do. I busted out the user manual and try'd to locate the bad fuse or fuses by description. When that didn't work I pulled all the fuses looking for a bad one. Not finding any bad fuses I pulled the radio and the HVAC controls and probed the back of them to find that no 12v was going to the knob that controls fan speed. I then moved on to the flasher relay to find 12v going to the pin that controls the hazards but no 12v going to the other half of the relay. If your correct and their is no fuse-able links then the wiring harness has a open in it. That is the only conclusion I can come up with since all the fuses were good.

      I even pulled and bypassed the blower relay and the blower works great. So what ever 12v signal goes through the relay to close it, isn't making it when the key is on. What ever the issue is its up stream of the fuses. What do you think?

    3. ShadetreeSeattle

      ShadetreeSeattle

      sounds like we have the basics here for a no 12v situation over a no ground one... however we would benefit from some electrical documentation to fully understand the electrical circuit going on here... i'm just shooting in the dark here unfortunately as i am less experienced with post 96 stuff so bare with me.... i do know that the blower motor circuit on older (pre 96) ford rigs @ the fan switch is a negative controlled side of the circuit if i remember correctly,  which means it may not show 12v even if working properly, depending on which terminals were probed. i might advise picking up a PDF copy of the Factory service manual on ebay, since it seems there's not too much wire harness documentation out there on these newer rigs... it could be similar to what i know, but i'm still unsure.  the F.S.M. will provide detailed schematics that a chilton's will never... let alone a user manual. it seems lke you have the troubleshooting knowledge but not the documentation... a situation that i find myself in more than i'd like to admit. haha. local libraries sometimes have copies of the fsm for applicable years on many vehicles as well. according to the wiki page, the ranger you got is a third gen, from 98-2012 and if i'd have a bet in anything the electronics may have not changed much between those years, as far as the heater controls go, let alone the hazards or other systems, i'm speaking off the top of my head. they do tend not to change up things like this too much between generations from what i have seen. anyways, i'd try to get some electrical schematics on the rig... then you can see where the circuit begins, what devices are involved and where it terminates back to ground.

      i'd imagine though if relativly unchanged, the circuit's hot (12v) side originates from an ign switch feed from the engine bay fuse box, goes thru the ign switch, or a relay driven by said switch, then goes to a secondary (lower amperage) fuse in the passenger compartment, then to the motor. the motor should show 12v when the key's on basically. but it won't run till the return path is made (the negative side of the circuit) via the blower's dashboard switch. this switch on newer vehicles may not actually be a part of the blower circuit either, (like on older rigs) but rather, the switch tells a controller to 'ground' the motor's neg side a certain amount for desired blower speed. older rigs utilize a 'blower motor resistor' to accomplish typically 3 or 4 speeds. the switch on it's highest setting direct connects the blower's neg side to chassis ground, while the slower settings on the switch connect the motor to ground via several resistors that 'waste' a certain amount of energy to accomplish the desired speed. modern blower motor systems on some other vehicles i have worked on utilize a transistorized controller, which gives a much larger scale of control, and it's solid state. i'm unsure of if these 05's use these but it could be a thing... either way, demystifying these systems starts with getting good literature... otherwise i'm just shootin in the dark. hopefully i have given some useful info so far though. 

    4. Skitter302

      Skitter302

      Did some more looking the circuit isn't ground switching. I'll have to find a diagram and find where the missing part of the puzzle is. If that doesn't work then I'll wiring the features back in using new wires with fuses in them.

  5. thanks man. appreciate your feedback on many of the topics on here. this forum's been a big help to me for a lot of ford stuff. i hope to give some info back and whatnot.
  6. nice! happy that worked out for you in the long run upgrading to the 3g. the 2g's have crummy connectors on them too which overheat/fall off because the tab broke off a decade ago. the regulator itself features a solid state transistor which can fail in open or closed state. it's pretty easy to id a 'failed open' regulator as the voltage drops like a typical dead alternator does. but a failed closed regulator will typically look great at idle (sometimes overcharged) and then ya hit the gas and it's boiling the battery.
  7. @Razorbackdidn't see this till now haha. i don't log in very often unfortunately but hope you got the blower figured out as it's been a while. with stuff that's been rewired it can be a little tougher to resolve the issue, but if you have experience with a multimeter or test light i'd try to get a voltage read at the blower motor first and see if it's missing the voltage or ground side of the circuit. if the wiring is somewhat like how ford wired it still, than the positive side is fed by a fused circuit which get's power from the ignition switch, and the negative side is returning to a chassis ground via the dashboard blower switch and the blower resistor. try to backprobe the connector with the red multimeter lead (black lead to a stable ground like neg battery terminal) and see if you have 12 ish volts on either terminal. if you have 12v on both connections, it means the ground side of the circuit failed. if you have no voltage on either, then i'd look upstream of the voltage side. if the ac compressor doesn't cycle when you turn it on, it might indicate a voltage issue as the ac and blower i believe do not share grounds... these systems do draw a lot of current so they are subject to thermal stresses from usage. i have seen a fair share of burnt connectors on those blower circuits... ac clutches draw an ok amount too. hope this helps you (or someone) out there. cheers!
  8. found out something with surging while under load problem. the computer is cycling the egr valve open and closed (like it's supposed to???) while driving (or off idle) causing a significant drop in vacuum which i assume changes intake vacuum enough that the map sensor swings lean/rich. unplugged the vac line to the egr valve and it goes away completely. a while ago i replaced the solenoid with a subaru egr solenoid as i found none of the junkyard ford ones held vacuum very well on the manifold side of the solenoid valve. so i decided to try out a ford one again and the problem is less than it was, but still there. perhaps the computer cannot duty cycle the subaru valve as easily as the ford one? not sure. perhaps the subaru one admits more air than the ford one. the problem still exists with the ford one though, but far less noticeable. are the ford valves supposed to admit a little bit of vacuum to the egr valve even when closed? or do the ford solenoids just suck at sealing up? additionally, admitting false air to the intake seems to clear up the stalling while shifting into reverse/drive from park problem. should i adjust the throttle stop more open then? hmmm. just thought i'd drop an update here. thanks all!
  9. ford bronco 1988. 4.9 inline 6 applies to any 2nd generation and likely 3rd generation ford alternator setup. (internally regulated style alternator) complaint was that battery (charging failure) lamp was on. upon inspection i realized it was overcharging condition, instead of no charge condition. (also activates charging lamp!) never knew it did that for overcharge as well. anyways, we left it to sit overnight and the next day i go to diagnose further, and the battery's dead. so i recharge it, and hit the books again. i read up on 2g charging systems, and when i go back outside to test and see if something's staying live when it shouldn't be i noticed that the alternator was quite warm, compared to the engine which hadn't been ran all day. unplug the regulator's connector and the draw on the battery goes away. (watched battery voltage creep back up instantly) so i scored another voltage regulator from the junkyard and compared results between the two. it seems the voltage regulator under normal conditions switches the negative side of the field circuit but only when it get's power from the green wire which is controlled via ignition switch and also if it detects that the battery voltage is less than alternator voltage via yellow wire which goes to main solenoid power distribution point. in this case, the voltage regulator shorted closed circuit on the negative side of the field circuit. with vreg removed it shows a short between one brush and aluminum heatsink (normally it would not return path untill it comes alive with the ignition on and detects lower voltage on battery than alternator output. anyways, didn't see anyone discussing this failure mode of these alternator regulators. (typically in the past i have seen them just go open circuit and quit charging) hope this helps out someone. cheers!
  10. the bottom link you posted is super useful, thanks! i have been working off a 1985 f series fsm which covers the early eeciv stuff too. but this is a lot more useful. hope to get back on here soon with good news!
  11. sorry, it's been a while since i had some time to write back. the computer's software code does not match the table posted, nor does the code in the door frame, nor does the computer... that being said, chips inside the computer date to 87, which seems right... totally could have been replaced with a junk yard computer from same year though. recapped the computer since a few were totally fubar with the rotting fish smell and leakage and whatnot.. still didn't solve the problem. needed it though i'm sure. i added little heatsinks to the voltage regulator daughter cards too! haha. i did mean MAP sensor, sorry about the typo. i think i have narrowed it down to the ignition/computer wire harness as it seems like an ignition interference related problem across the board. the surging under load is absolutely spark advancing/retarding, (does not feel like fuel stumbling or surging) but rather an instant on/off that goes away under full spark advance (heavy throttle) discovered that when it has the startup issue, unplugging the ignition module, then crank for a few seconds, then re plug and try again always clears the issue. fuel is plenty good as i still daily drive the thing and put fresh gas in it from many different gas stations. vaccum looks great, no needle hop, under heavy load does not appear to have the typical signs of plugged cat, etc. don't have a scope to view waveforms, but frequency checking the MAP sensor looks like it's putting out acceptable data. per http://troubleshootmyvehicle.com/ford/4.9L-5.0L-5.8L/how-to-test-the-map-sensor-2 thinking that i will replace the ignition wire harness with a clean looking fender mount grey type harness as i hate the concept of ignition module on distributor setup. might take some mcguyvering to get the distributor wired up like a fender mount type. but i feel it's worth it. i'm going to check out the diagnostics guide you posted and see if i missed anything. thanks again!
  12. i worked on an 1985 f150 feedback carb'd eec iv 4.9 where they stuck it in the dashboard above the gas pedal. eec wiring went straight out the firewall, and nothing connected inside the cab to computer. it all was wired 'on top' of a slightly modified duraspark harness. we pulled that stuff and made it a regular duraspark/carter yf setup with very little effort as it literally just involved us unlooming the eec stuff and plugging in the duraspark harness to the connector by the driver fender in engine compartment. the existing vehichle harness still had the resistor wire in it for duraspark module too! unsure of if they did this with the 351's but this was during the carb to eec transition so it seemed they wanted to make 1 harness instead of two at the time in my opinion. if the carb's got anything more than a choke solenoid wire, it's likely a feedback carb which means it's eec. ( if it has tps sensor, idle stop motor, two wire coolant temperature sensor, those things are dead giveaways) this particular truck the computer was shot and it still ran... (like crap) but as long as the distributor/ignition module had power it ran ok for no timing advance... dieseled like a mofo when ya shut it off cause someone messed with the idle stop to get it to idle without the feedback solenoid working. haha
  13. got a bronco here that's baffling me. it has several issues which are an annoyance, at best... but alas, i'd like to try and gather some collective ideas on the subject, or at least some pointers on where to look for electrical troubleshooting. at this moment i believe it to be an electrical issue of some nature, as i have tested or replaced a bunch of stuff on this rig. (fixed a bunch of other problems, but never could shake these three as of yet) sorry if this is a lot of info, but i have been trying at this one for a while. i can split these into separate topics too, but thought they might be related. 1989 ford bronco, 4.9 inline 6, c6 automatic transmission, no fancy stuff done to motor besides a reseal/cleanup on the top end, vaccum line replacement everywhere and removal of air injection and a/c due to components being end of life. (yes i capped everything and whatnot, emissions is not required in my area) throws no codes except the air inoperative code... (it's how you know the computer still has a pulse. haha) three possibly interconnected symptoms:(computer related? well i tried another junkyard computer and it has the exact same symptoms across the board, except far more exaggerated than with original, which is odd, but shows it's perhaps not a dead computer) problem 1) possibly electronic ignition related slow crank it sometimes when warm/driven for a duration will have problems restarting. when it has this problem it seems like the battery's dead. (cranks slow, lights sort of dim, etc) but it's actually not starter related whatsoever, from what i have at least gathered so far. i believe it to be ignition related, as it turns over just fine with the ignition module unplugged (accidentally discovered this by forgetting to plug back in while testing), but then with it plugged in it seems to light the plugs well before T.D.C. as it literally fights the starter, creating a slow crank condition, which ran the original battery dead several times. so i put in my truck's three year old agm battery in it and it now can crank for a while without running dead. sometimes if i turn back off the ignition and re-try it works just fine. like nothing's wrong at all. other times i gotta let it sit for a while and cool down. observations/things i have tested: seems to happen when warm, (checked iat/ect and well within values) at random, but more often after it was sitting for 2+ minutes (fuel injector? rail pressure test seemed to show no sign) timing is on point, 10deg. before tdc spout disconected timing light shows computer is advancing like it should when spout connected and throttled distributor replaced and module too (stupid distributor-mount type) wires replaced and routed away as they can be from eachother tried a known good maf sensor from another inline 6. no change... computer throws no codes except the 54 or whatever saying that the air injection is inoperative (removed capped etc. because it was shot) problem number 2) random stalling while shifting into drive or reverse from park it does it more often than not when warm and only does it when shifting from park to drive or reverse (into a gear) and especially if i'm turning the steering wheel. things i have tested: psp switch works... atleast it doesn't throw a code on koer tests. transmission range switch was shorting out so i replaced that... (it's a c6 auto and it has the range switch has the extra 2 wires that go to the computer as an idle up signal) iac ports nice and clean as i had the intake apart when resealing the top end. tried multiple iac valves with no difference in operation... also clean and when you push the valve with a pokey tool it moves freely problem number 3) surging while under load does it no matter what temperature engine is at and surging frequency is manipulated by how much gas you are giving it. the more pedal, the higher the frequency. if you lay into it, the frequency goes high enough it's less noticeable. at higher engine speeds it's less noticeable or not at all like when going down the freeway for instance. most noticeable when at a light throttle or acceleration at a low speed. it feels like you are lifting your foot completely off the pedal for a split second, then goes back to where it was. things i have tested: tps looks great on my fluke with the simulated analog bar graph fuel pressure is nice and hi in the 45-55 range. rear pump and tank replaced cause it leaked/sender was shot FPR seems to do it's job/is not leaking into intake possibly computer related? well i tried another junkyard computer and it has the exact same symptoms across the board, except far more exaggerated than with original. i'm at a loss! haha. i'm going to try and live monitor stuff as i drive down the road by setting the multimeter against the windshield and running leads to test stuff like tps output, egr valve solenoid, iac valve, etc. to get a better idea of what's going on. thanks for reading! drop a line if any of this rings a bell.
  14. does the system pressurize instantly when starting cold? system capped like normal, start the engine. after 1 minute, is the system already pressurized to the degree that hoses are firm/opening cap relieves lots of air? if so, i'd definitely say a head gasket is leaking combustion gasses into the cooling jacket. the system should never pressurize before the engine warms up, if that makes sense. the fact that the heads were loosened and re-tightened with original gaskets is not good.
  15. capacitors are a big problem in general when it comes to a vehicle 20+ years old. that being said, their are a lot of eecIV's still on the road with the original computers. it's something that could be a problem, but honestly it could be a bunch of things that could contribute to a condition that the computer interprets as rich. a weak or damaged oxygen sensor will output less voltage which in turn makes the computer think "i'm rich" until it calls b.s. and throws a code. likewise, an un-metered internal fuel leak can do the same thing e.g. blown out fuel pressure reg. diaphragm or stuck open injector. i will say that if you disconnect an oxygen sensor, typically it does not make the vehicle idle as bad as you make it out to seem. i had an econoline with the EECIV 4.9L where the oxygen sensor was disconnected. it just got crap gas mileage. idled just fine. i think the code 42 is accurate in that the computer sees a rich condition (low switching voltage), and it's reporting it as it should. (if the oxygen sensor is original looking, i'd throw a new one in there after you solve the problem anyways as your mileage will improve) There's a lot of things it could be. i like to start with the symptoms and go from there. Does it idle better when cold or hot? Does it generally idle slow or does it hunt up and down? Is it intermittent? sometimes it's fine, sometimes it's not? How fast does the code come back after a reset? does it stall? if so when? does it have a constant misfire on any paticular cylinder or does it miss across the board, sort of speak? (cylinder misfires will set rich codes, eg. spark problems)
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