starting issue

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griff

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Hi,

My 1992 Bronco XLT 5.8 litre has an issue with the ignition I believe. I can start it cold without issue, but if it warms up a bit then I turn off the engine, I cannot start it. I usually have to wait a good 1/2 hour - 45 min. and then I can start it again. I replaced the battery with a great heavy duty one, all connections are solid. This is just very strange. Could it be a compression issue I wonder? If anyone has experienced a similar issue I sure could use some help.

Thanks,

griff

 

miesk5

96 Bronco 5.0
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Yo griff,

Try a Self Test for Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC)s by my pal, BroncoJoe19
http://broncozone.com/topic/14269-code-reader/page__pid__74587__mode__threaded
The engine temperature must be greater than 50° F for the Key On Engine Off (KOEO) Self-Test and greater than 180° F for the Key On Engine Running (KOER) Self-Test.
Run it around to heat the engine up and shift thru all gears incl Reverse. Then turn off all accessories/lights, etc.
Make sure A/C is off and transmission is in Park (automatic) or in Neutral for a Manual & release clutch.
Do Key On Engine Off (KOEO) portion first.
Look Codes up in my broncolinks.com site using the new Search function.
And Post em here according to:
KOEO
&

KOER

...

With NO DTCs;

SLOW cranking caused by; battery, terminals, cables, relay, or starter.
LONG cranking caused by compression, vacuum, fuel, oil pressure, or ignition (could have DTCs)

"...Why are the cables and battery so important? The starter circuit pulls a lot of amperage, up to 500 amps depending on the starter, the engine load, and battery condition. This kind of amperage stresses all of the components in the starter circuit, including the battery, battery terminals, the battery disconnect switch, the cables including the ground path, and any remote solenoids. Problems with these components are hard to find because they appear fine at rest or under a light load, but generate high resistance under heavy amperage draws. The result will be low voltage to the starter during cranking, resulting in heavier amperage draw and increased internal heat in the starter. Over time, this will cause starter failure. Voltage measured at the starter during cranking should always be above 9.5VDC..."

Slow Cranking or a Grinding Noise; "... Problems with the negative battery cable is a major cause of starting problems in Ford, Lincoln, and Mercury vehicles. Bad battery cables can cause slow cranking or a grinding noise when trying to start an engine. On some late model vehicles dating back to 1994, the wire connection inside the battery terminal connector corrodes easily. This will cause a voltage drop in the cable and result in low voltage being supplied to the starter. You can check for voltage drop in the cable using a digital voltmeter. Connect the negative probe of the voltmeter to the negative battery post (not the battery terminal connector). Then connect the positive probe to the starter case and crank the engine. The voltage reading should be less than .5 volts. A higher reading means there is resistance in the cable or the battery terminal connector. Clean the cable end and the battery terminal connector and test again. If the voltage reading is still higher than .5 volts, replace the cable and the battery terminal connector..."
Source: by genco via miesk5 at Ford Bronco Zone Forums


Slow Cranking; Take it to a parts store for a free starting & charging sys check; such as most NAPA stores; "...

 

miesk5

96 Bronco 5.0
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Yo,

Forgot to include;

Long Crank Times may be traced to a sticking Idle Air Control (IAC) valve, TSB 97-9-5 for 95-96; "...After a 1-4 hour engine soak time, long crank times and/or long crank to start followed by a stall may occur on some vehicles. No further stalling or rough idle will occur after the engine is running. The long crank and/or stall may be due to the Idle Air Control (IAC) Valve sticking. Replace the IAC Valve with a revised IAC Valve if no Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) are present." @  http://www.stangnet.com/images/stories/docs/sn95_TSBs/97-09-05.pdf

I did it once for our 96, but also need to clean IAC passage and maybe intake manifold.

"If the engine RPM does not drop when the IAC motor is disconnected, then either the IAC motor is not functioning properly, or, there is a vacuum leak in the engine. Stop the engine, remove the IAC motor and block off the passages. Restart the engine to see if there is any change in engine RPM. An idle speed higher than base idle specs indicates a vacuum leak. If the engine RPM is at base idle specs, then the IAC motor is bad. Resistance specs are 7-13 ohms. A good resistance reading does not necessarily mean that the IAC motor is good. Occasionally, an IAC motor will become weak, and will actually bypass too much air, causing a high idle condition even though everything else is operating properly..." 
Source: by Mike N via Joe D

IAC Overview, Cleaning & Testing (testing is different than above article) by Ryan M @ http://www.fuelinjectedford.com/page39.html

 
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griff

griff

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Hi,

Thanks for the info! I will have a chance to go through it in the morning. A bit more about the issue:

As I said, I can cold start easily. Starts right up. Drive it a bit and then I cannot start it again. I even started it one morning after sitting all night, backed it up to load something in the back. Turned it off, loaded and then it wouldn't start. So when this happens and I try to start there is no cranking at all. Turn key, one click and nothing. Not even a hint of cranking. Leave it sit for half-hour to 45min, starts with no effort at all like a new car. I had thought maybe the starter was bad because that is what it sounds like when it doesn't start, but again, half hour later and it's easy to start. New battery. So what I presently have is a situation where I can go to the store. I can drive somewhere, but have cannot start the vehicle when I want to leave. I have to wait almost an hour and then I can start it right up. Incredibly frustrating.

 

miesk5

96 Bronco 5.0
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Yo,

Did you inspect or  replace all  negative cables from battery post to block, to  firewall,  & to intake manifold?

& positive cables to to starter relay and starter?

Edit, is starter relay securely mounted to inner fender rust/grime free area?

Can you test for voltage at relay and starter?

CAUTION: Make sure transmission is in neutral and parking brake is applied.

Pull the R/LB wire push-on connector at the top of the relay off.  It is marked on diagram as Relay Trigger . 

Have a helper turn ignition key to start.

Is there battery voltage (over 12 volts dc) on the red/ligt blue wire?

94-bronco-evtm--pg.-201.jpg

94-bronco-evtm--pg.-201.jpg

Diagrams by Mikey350

...

starterrelay93conns.jpg

  • Starter Motor Does Not Crank Engine, Loose or corroded battery cable connections, Undercharged battery., Malfunctioning starter relay. Faulty starter motor ground circuit. Malfunctioning starter motor. Malfunctioning ignition  switch.  Does ignition key feel harder to move to start or others positions?  Does key have a spring back feel to run position?
BATTERY FEED TO TRANSMISSION RANGE (TR) SENSOR OR PARK/NEUTRAL POSITION (PNP) SWITCH

c11505b.gif

Pin Number Circuit Circuit Function:

1 57 (BK) Ground Circuit

2 359 (GY/R) Sensor Signal Return

3 199 (LB/Y) Transmission Range Sensor to PCM

4 463 (R/W) Electronic Transfer Case Module to TR Sensor

5 33 (W/PK) Starter Circuit

6 140 (BK/PK) Backup Lamp

7 298 (P/O) Fused Accessory Feed

8 32 (R/LB) Starter Circuit

With key in START position, check for battery voltage at TR sensor/PNP switch terminal (W/PK). Is voltage present?

  • With key in START position, check for battery voltage at Manual Lever Position/Transmission Range (MLP/TR) Sensor terminal (R/LB).). Is voltage present?
  • With key/push-button switch in start position, check for battery voltage at starter solenoid S terminal (R/BL).
  • j4576b.gif
 
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griff

griff

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I really appreciate your assistance with the diagrams and all. I'll be sure to place an update when I get something concrete on this!

Cheers,

griff

 

orogopher

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This is only a guess....an educated guess though....I once had a 71 FORD LTD...351/400 MODIFIED....THE IGNITION MODULE UNDER THE HOOD ONBTHE WHEEL WELL..WOULD GET HOT..AND I COULD BE DOING 55 ON THE FRWY...AND FLAT LINE....IT WOULD HAPPEN JUST ABOUT TIME IT GOT WARMED UP...BUT WAS REALLY INVONSISTENT AS TO WHEN IT WOULD SHUT DOWN.....I WOULD WAIT 15 ...20 MINUTES....GOOD TO GO...IT WOULD STAR RIGHT UP AND DRIVE FINE....I ENDED UP GOING THRU ABOUT 5 JUNK YARD MODULES...THEN I GOT A FORD MOTOR CRAFT MODULE.....HAD THAT CAR ANOTHER 10 YEARS.....NEVER HAD A PROBLEM AFTER THAT...ALSO GOOD GROUNDING HELPS IF IT LOOSES ITS GROUNDING OR IF ITS INTERMITTENT.... THAT WILL ALSO CAUSE IT TO FLATLINE...RANDOMLY....HOPE THIS HELPS

 
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griff

griff

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Have been finally getting some things accomplished with the '92 Bronco. As it happened, a tree fell on the hood (only). It scratched and dented everything, including the cowl above the hood. It also broke a bit of the grill near the latch. So I have been dealing with multiple headaches. 

I changed out the starter and that took care of the issue I posted above. I also replaced the front strut rod bushings, motor mounts and put on a new hood to take care of the tree damage. I pulled the dented cowl and fixed that. I paint matched and smoothed all that out and now I have a great looking Bronco again (except for the grill which I will look into replacing).

The seats are ripped up and covered right now. I am thinking of getting them reupholstered. Oh, I also welded the drivers seat as it came lose. Getting close to having Old Faithful back in fighting shape.

Thanks for the help fellas.

griff

 

miesk5

96 Bronco 5.0
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Yo Griff,

Thanks for coming back with the updates!

It's getting frustrating here to try to help folks and find we never hear from them again.

I'm sure you'll find a clean grille at a yard,  NPD, etc.

For a YARD SEARCH on-line, I use;
http://www.hollanderparts.com/
A yard that uses Hhttps://www.npdlink.com/store/catalog/Grille_1992_96-80721-1.htmlollander Interchange can search other yards and have it shipped.
Can select certain parts
Has Vehicle Pics for some vehicles
...
or
http://www.car-parts.com/
Can select certain parts
Can search by year range, such as 92 through 96 & has best item condition descriptions such as "COVER BAD LEATHER PWR BKT GRY"
Has Vehicle Pics for some vehicles incl. interior/dash, back seat, front & rear and engine bay
...

http://www.copartfinder.com/finder/searchMake.do
Has Vehicle Pics for some vehiclesAs incl. interior/dash, back seat, front & rear and engine bay.
Can search by year range, such as 92 through 96
Has Vehicle Pics for some vehicles
Can NOT Select certain parts
...

http://www.picknpull.com
This is a Company name w/yard locations in various states
Can NOT Select certain parts
Has Vehicle Pics for some vehicles

http://row52.com/Search
Can NOT Select certain parts
Has Vehicle Pics for some vehicles 
AND Want a Part? It's Easy...
1. You create a Parts Wanted Listing.
2. Parts Pullers respond with offers.
3. You pick the best one.
A Parts Puller gets the parts you need.

****

for obsolete parts by Ford long version pn:
http://www.partsvoice.com/
http://www.rearcounter.com
http://www.greensalescompany.com 

&

NEW* Fits 92-96 Ford Bronco/F-150/F-250/F-350 Stainless Black Billet Grill (Fits: Ford Bronco)* 1992-1996 Ford F-250. * 1992-1996 Ford F-350. This is a custom fit billet grill - please check the compatibility table above, or to our fitment notes. Horizontal Billet.
$52.00
Top Rated Plus56 sold
$9.99 shipping


 @ https://www.ebay.com/b/Ford-Bronco-Grilles/33645/bn_1375559

see more


For new discounted Ford parts:
https://consumerlink.oeconnection.com/91554453363118850 (suggested by JScatt!)

they show;

Manufacturer Part Description Usage List Core Internet Price Qty Rq Ford GRILLE - RADIATOR ``BEFORE 10/95''; Argent $129.18 -- $116.26  Add to Cart Manufacturer Part Description Usage List Core Internet Price Qty Rq Ford GRL ASSEMBLY RADIATOR Black - "NITE" Option $609.22 -- $548.30  Add to Cart •also see LMC @ http://www.lmctruck.com/features/fd/FDGR5.htm

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