EGR Removal

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Kauffmanbros

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Wanting to remove all the EGR components. Just wondering if there is a kit to plug vacuum lines etc or if anyone has done this please let and has ideas.

It's a 351 auto in a 1986 xlt

 

miesk5

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Yo,

Although I don't like to remove smog eq.

Removal; "...What you need to do is electrically plug in the TAB and TAD solenoids but remove the vacuum lines, then all the air injection plumbing and valves can be removed and the heads plugged. The EGR is a seperate system from the Thermactor and the computer treats it very differently, it also helps increase milage and power so it's a good idea to keep it anyway. If you have the DPFE system there is no way to bypass it without the computer knowing and throwing a code so you may as well keep it intact. you'll get codes if you remove the solenoids, the easiest way to avoid this is to just leave them plugged in. The TAB and TAD you could fake out pretty easy, but even the old EGR system can't be faked because the computer both commands valve movement and watches for feedback to confirm it happened, so a dummy resistor won't cut it. by Paul

.....

These parts are commonly used & available via google searches:

Eliminator Overview, EGR Block Off Plate, EVR, CANP, TAB & TAD Actuator Eliminator Resistor & Parts List & pics; need one 75 ohm 3watt Resistor for each item removed, EVR, CANP, TAB & TAD solenoids

Some pics of each, but company is out of business:

http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_146746810387314&key=6ed47b392b9edfe394b9e89b72717104&libId=iq58k6y601000bgv000MAcbg8dzms95tg&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fullsizebronco.com%2Fforum%2F21-noobie-bronco-tech-questions-flame-free-zone%2F417409-egr-smog-deletes.html&v=1&out=http%3A%2F%2Fweb.archive.org%2Fweb%2F20120820002649%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.rjminjectiontech.com%2Fcollections%2Fegr-eliminators&title=EGR%20and%20Smog%20Deletes%20-%20Ford%20Bronco%20Forum&txt=RJM%20Injection%20Tech%20%3F%20EGR%20Eliminators

Tad and tab resistors see

and a neat mod by jrichker; "...Put the resistor inside the heat shrink tubing and crimp the connectors on. I would choose the Ford pin connectors since they should plug in the TAB & TAD wiring. That way you haven't modified the wiring so it is easy to re-install the TAB & TAD solenoids if emissions testing comes to your area. 18 gauge crimp on taps Catalog #: 64-3053

Two flat pin connectors.

One 82 ohm, 3 watt resistor. (diff Ford/..)

One piece 3/8" heat sink tubing 2" long.

Two pieces 3/16" heat shrink tubing 1 1/2" long.

Solder the pins onto the resistor leads using electrical solder.

Slide the 3/8" heat shrink tubing over the resistor.

Slide the two pieces of 3/16" heat shrink tubing over the two wires, leaving the flat part of the pins uncovered

It helps to have the resistor leads straight and not bent as shown in the first picture when you apply heat to the heat shrink tubing. That way, the tubing shrinks more evenly.

Finally, apply heat to shrink all the tubing uniformly

Bend the leads to fit the spacing on the female TAB & TAD connector sockets.

Push the connector pins of the completed resistor assembly into the empty female TAD or TAD connector sockets on the wiring harness. The resistor assemblies replace the missing solenoids: one resistor assembly per solenoid socket..."

read more and see many pics

http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_146746832470313&key=6ed47b392b9edfe394b9e89b72717104&libId=iq58qa3h01000bgv000MA1tuw5nd0&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fullsizebronco.com%2Fforum%2F21-noobie-bronco-tech-questions-flame-free-zone%2F170822-wiring-resistors-tab-tad-how.html&v=1&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stangnet.com%2Fmustang-forums%2F790379-finally-learned-how-read-codes.html&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fullsizebronco.com%2Fforum%2F21-noobie-bronco-tech-questions-flame-free-zone%2F417409-egr-smog-deletes.html&title=wiring%20resistors%20in%20for%20TAB%2FTAD%2C%20how%20to%3F%20-%20Ford%20Bronco%20Forum&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stangnet.com%2Fmustang-foru...ead-codes.html

Smog Pump:

Removal, Belt in an 88 5.0; "...I tried an 89.5" first, 2 inches shorter than stock and it was too long. So I went back hoping for something about 88 or so and all they had was a 87.5. It was a bit short and a royal pita to put on but it is running fine. A lil tight but it should hold till I get an 88.2 which they can order..."

Source: by fright88

Removal, Belt Part Number 882K6 in an 88 5.0

Source: by Barbaric35

I have no info for your 86 351 belt.

And having issues with this Tablet,

So see http://broncozone.com/topic/25185-bronco-project-mechanical-issues/

my post #18

...

 
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Kauffmanbros

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, it also helps increase milage and power so it's a good idea to keep it anyway. 
I'm wanting to remove it because I've always heard the opposite? What don't I know? I've always heard it's government crap that restricts, slows flow, and hurts mileage.

 

miesk5

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Yo,

"The EGR valve takes a lot of the gas that would be escaping out the exhaust on your vehicle and it recirculates it. The valve actually pushes that gas right back into the intake manifold so that your engine can burn the gas some more."

by https://autoservicecosts.com/egr-valve-cost/#Mr_Tire

And the egr system does not operate all the time:

"...Ford EGR systems "...PCM will not operate the EGR valve unless it sees: The engine warmed up to normal operating temperature. TPS at partial throttle. TPS not at Wide Open Throttle (WOT). MAP/MAF must be indicating light or moderate load. A certain amount of computer clock time has to be elapsed..." by tomco-inc.com

 

Seabronc

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Ditto what Al has said.  I always love watching people ***** with systems they don't understand because they "Heard" someone else repeat a fairy tale.  You should do some real research on the function of these systems before you yank them out.  If you are having trouble with them, it is usually because they are not functioning properly and need to be fixed,  One of the major problems with the valves is that they get carbon deposits which makes them not function properly, the fix, remove the carbon, or perhaps the control valve is defective or you have a vacuum leak.  

Besides what Al already said, another function is to allow the computer to run an more aggressive timing curve on the engine, thus the knock sensor which lets the computer know when the engine is in preignition caused by too high of temperatures in the cylinder.  In that case the valve opens to recirculate the relative cooler exhaust, approx 500 degrees as opposed to the cylinder temp of approx 2500 degrees to drop the ignition temperature below the preignition temp.  "That's not a complete or totally accurate description of the system just a snipit" :) /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

Anyway, it is your truck, and if you find some day you burned holes in a piston or two, consider putting back what the dumb engineers designed for it.

:)>-   

 
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GrandpaKenof15

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Well all that is good, but when these system get up in age, like ours at 20+yrs old, and they start to fail, then it cost a small fortune just for the replacement parts. I work autoparts so I do know a little bit about this. Like the knock sensor. If it goes bad as mine did, you can't replace it cause I haven't found one available. Got the part number but no luck. Plus a piece of pipe from the egr valve to the intake

Costs about $100, if you can find it. Egr valve itself is close to $100 give or take depending where  you get it. So there are ways to over come the ordeal. The computer is going to be the headache, so if the light stays on so be it. I have never burnt a piston, a valve yes but that was my fault not the engine. If you make the engine breathe then you increase the horsepower and even get better Mile per gal. My headache is getting around the computer without going carb. Just my opinion.

 

miesk5

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Yo Ken,

So you need the 5.0L EGR Air Tube connected to an exhaust passage in the intake manifold and then goes to the EGR Valve?

See,

http://www.rockauto.com/m/mobilecatalog.php?make=FORD

1993 FORD BRONCO 5.0L V8 :

Emission : EGR Line Price

DORMAN 598119 Click for more information about this part

{#E5TZ9D477B}

http://www.rockauto.com/info/42/598-119-007__ra_t.jpg

$39.79

&

STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS AT188 Click for more information about this part

{#E5TZ9D477B}

http://www.rockauto.com/info/154/AT188photo%20primary__ra_p.jpg

$59.79

**

Also consider, http://www.pciinc.com/#!shop-pci/c4q1/!/114-FORD-TRUCK-EGR-AIR-TUBE-1985-94/p/52793972/category=13867780

Great customer service!!!

114 FORD TRUCK EGR AIR TUBE 1985-94

Category: Store > OE REPLACEMENT PARTS > CONVERTER/EGR TUBES > FORD CONVERTER & EGR TUBES

SKU 114

In stock

$42.99

#114 FORD TRUCK EGR AIR TUBE 1985-94

Ford Truck Manifold Tube

Two threaded ends and mid-pipe flexible coupling.

85-94 Ford trucks, 5.0L 302 eng

Replaces O.E. E5TZ-9D477-B

https://dqzrr9k4bjpzk.cloudfront.net/images/6624029/298043660.jpg

****

ADAPTER to Lower intake from EGR Valve in a 96 5.0; "...Parts MNGR said it still available @ a few dealerships but is Obsolete, He said the Price is $34.99; Ford MC PN N803575-S51 "22mm";On-line search I did gives one good hit (so far): CONNECTOR - Part Number N803575-S51 - asked the mngr if the 96 5.0 Adapter is same as earlier years 5.0 engines and he said, "Yes", 4 JUN 2010"

Source: by miesk5

***

BTW, the 5.8L TUBE is connected to the passenger side exhaust manifold...

***

For the Knock sensor, check with local engine rebuilders.

And,

http://row52.com/Search

Can NOT Select certain parts

Has Vehicle Pics AND.. Want a Part? It's Easy...

1 You create a

Parts Wanted Listing.

2 Parts Pullers respond with offers.

3 You pick the best one.

A Parts Puller gets the parts you need.

 

GrandpaKenof15

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Just got back from the yard and nothing had a knock sensor in it. No parts store including Napa doesn't carry it. So what I need to know is the sensor normally open or closed so I could wire it that way. But as far as the eye, I have already stripped it out. I cut the pipe off and welded it closed till I can a plug. I am making a cap for the egr. Couldn't break the bolts loose on the air pump so just letting it hang there

 

nelbur

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If you have cut and plugged the exhaust tube, you can probably leave the rest of the EGR alone.   The computer likely looks for the valve to move and if it sees the valve open it should be happy.   With no exhaust, there will be no EGR function.   I am not familiar with your year, but generally, if you understand what the computer is looking for,you can get rid of the function while still keeping the computer happy.   That way you still keep the check engine function.

 

miesk5

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Yo Ken,

Unfortunately, the sensor is not an on/off switch;

http://web.archive.org/web/20131217235558/http://www.omitec.com/uploads/pics/_2331_20ESCKNOCK.gif

These waveforms were captured using the 4 channel lab scope. The top channel (YLO) is DREF, the (BLU) channel is EST, the (RED) channel is the knock sensor, and the (GRN) channel is the ESC input to the PCM.

Notice the ESC response to the knock sensor signal after a knock (presumably pre-ignition) is detected. This is normal operation of the electronic spark control system.

Overview; "...During engine operation the knock sensor (KS) (12A699) will generate a signal to the powertrain control module (PCM) (12A650) to ****** timing if the engine knocks..."

Source: by Ford motorcraftservice.com

Try http://row52.com/Search

The yards all probably know how rare the sensors are and have removed them from blocks heading to the foundries.

 
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Kauffmanbros

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So it sounds like in some instances it could cause issues, loose horse power etc. BUT when it's running like it should then it's beneficial. I was second guessing it because mine isn't causing any problems and didn't really want an unnecessary headache. I'll keep it in unless I start having major issues. Looks like this helped a couple other folks though.

 
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Kauffmanbros

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After talking to a guy I work with that's an ASE cert mechanic. He was telling me that I don't have a computer in an 86? My timing would be controlled through vacuum as well as a lot of other proportional engine functions. Did I miss something or am I not understanding him? Would the EGR still help with preventing knock if I doesn't have a sensor? He was saying there are a lot of thermal sensors, but looks like they weren't hooked up. I've attached a picture here.



 

Seabronc

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He is absolutely correct. On a carbed engine 80-86 there is no computer control of the EGR.  It is controlled by a vacuum control valve mounted near the front of the engine.  Knock is not a real problem with non-EFI engines since the timing is not controlled by a computer.  The EGR function is not as critical on those engines, though it's purpose is to introduce relatively cooler exhaust back into the engine under certain conditions to prevent too high of a cylinder temperature.  It is my understanding that the newer EFI engines had aluminum pistons making therm more susceptible to heat damage.  I know from experience that you can get away without the EGR on the older engines since the timing is not computer controlled.  Attached is the vacuum diagram of what I hooked up on my engine.  I eliminated the air pump and associated hardware and this is what I left connected.  

Red is main vacuum

Orange is for start and run, especially useful in cold conditions and control the heat riser function.

Yellow is for the distributor vacuum advance

Black is mainly the fuel vapor canister purge

The only function that is running continually is the main vacuum and vacuum advance.  The other functions are controlled by vacuum control valves that open and shut based on the temperature of the coolant.

:)>-

Diagram 1 is a complete vacuum system, diagram 2 is what I left functional, mainly for the start and run characteristics.  If not left functional you will most likely have to wait 15 to 20 minutes for the engine to warm up in the Winter before you can move the truck.  Also the diagram shows a dual vapor canister setup but most vehicles only have a single canister system.   I suggest using the vapor canister since it is part of the fuel tank venting system.

1985 Diagram Color Enhanced.jpg

Rosies Vacuum System.JPG

 
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Kauffmanbros

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Thanks that's a big-time helpful. I'll probably monkey with it when I get done changing my flexplate. I got it off tonight and I'll probably put it on in a couple of weeks after I finish work travel.

 

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