no power on hills

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rogmit

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Ok guys,I think I'm getting down to the knitty gritty problems i've been having with my 92 bronco 5.8 with performer heads and performer manifold with a 61mm throttle body from BBK and a MSD Ignition and 6AL Ignition box.I'm down to 2 codes. One is a 622 which could be related to the other code which was a 33.Exhaust shop just wants to throw 2 new cats at it.I told them that wasn't diagnosing the problem and that was just throwing parts and I can do that. So here is what I got. I put vacuum to the egr and it tries to **** the engine so I'm guessing the egr valve is ok and that I'm not getting a signal to the egr solenoid.The solenoid is new so I don't think that is the problem,it could be the connector so I have to check that yet. So,what I need is any other suggestions as to checking the egr solenoid other than checking the connector and what tests are there that I could do to check the catalytic converters.

The other forums I've read say that the up hill power loss could be the egr or catalytic converter.So any ideas will be welcomed.

The other thing I had a question about is about a 1 year or so ago I had to replace the computer because it was fried.Now I pulled it out of a 92 ford f150 but I don't remember if it was 4-wheel drive or had an E4OD TRANSMISSION and if any of these other problems I'm having if their related.The transmission is shifing now that I replaced the speed sensor or the differential but it didn't get rid of the 622 code and then added the 33 egr code problem.So that is where I'm at and I hope it is not the catalytic converters because I just replace those 2 years ago and the exhaust shop said their not warrantied any longer.

 

Rons beast

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Hey Rog,

get a vacuum gauge attached to manifold vacuum.  With the engine RPM climbing to say 2k and holding there the vac gauge should show steady 19-23in/hg.

If it gets to that range then falls off when holding rpm, it indicates a blocked exhaust.  Most likely the cats. BUT if they are only 2yrs old they may be getting damaged by a rich mixture.

Good Luck

 
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rogmit

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Hey miesk5,I'm letting the engine warm up right now.I have a vacuum gauge that is connected to the intake already.One other thing that I noticed is that when I'm going up the hill and trying to accelerate,it will blow out smoke cloud that smells like oil.This has happened twice.Does that indicate another problem?

 
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rogmit

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Rons Beast and miesk5,It is holding at about 19-20 and for a second or 2 it may drop down but then it goes back up to 19-20.Maybe I should say that the gauge is a boost gauge.Is that the same as a vacuum gauge?

 

Rons beast

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The boost gauge may also show vacuum, but that is not what it is designed for.  I would get a true vacuum gauge.

Does the vacuum drop down to 0 or close to 0.

The smoke cloud would indicate to me oil drawn into the intake, through worn valve seals, leaky gaskets, or pvc system.  One old trick is to see if there is a cloud when accelerating hard, but not when driving normal...that is an indication of worn valve seals.

However you say you have new heads?  were they brand new, or bought used?

I know more questions, but the more info we have the better.

 
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rogmit

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No the vacuumdrops down to about 10-12.There about five years old.They were new.Do you know anything about this placing a flat piece of metal between egr valve to determine whether it's bad or disconnecting the O2 sensor to verify if cats are bad

 

Rons beast

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Let me understand this....@ about a steady 2000 RPM the vacuum gauge drops from 19 to about 10 or 12....correct?

and you don't have the AC or any accessories on correct?

At 2K rpm the egr should be open and it would have no effect on the engine vacuum.

Disconnecting the O2 sensor tells you nothing about the cat performance.

Sounds like something is causing a vacuum loss/ excessive back pressure.

I would pull some plugs and see if they have signs of oil.  If you are drawing in oil that should show on plugs and would produce the exhaust cloud.

(if the cloud is from oil...could be coolent)   you may have cats getting blocked and the drop in vacuum results in richer mixture...but that smoke is black.

 

Rons beast

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Be sure PVC line is not blocked and PVC valve is good.

The engine is sucking oil, If PVC system is good, the most likely cause is worn valve seals.   That oil could have been cooking in the cats too. They may be getting restricted 

 
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rogmit

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ok,did you see my part of the posting about the computer I replaced in my bronco but I pulled it out of a 1992 ford f-150 but I don't think that it was an E4OD and I don't think it was a 4-wheel drive.That wouldn't have anything to do with this would it?I'm getting about 14 miles to the gallon on the highway.Oh and if the egr isn't opening because of the code 33,that doesn't have anything to do with the acceleration?

 

Rons beast

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Ok...let's take one problem at a time, and not throw out guesses.  The vacuum gauge is showing that there is something causing a vacuum drop in the engine at cruise speed.

You say it is blowing a blue/white oil smoke when trying to accelerate up hill as well.  That's burning oil.

These problems are of a mechanical nature, and the ECU or EGR are not the problem.  

 
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rogmit

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yes,it blown the smoke just twice when i have really laid into the pedal trying to get up a hill after that it is fine after I get up the hill.

 
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rogmit

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Rons beast,the pcv is new.So,when you say the PVC system,is that what you're referring too?Usually I already have the OD disengaged already because I thought that might be the problem of why it wouldn't pull a hill.I took for a 6-8 block ride tonight and the front catalytic converter was a lot hotter than the rear one.Then at one point while accelerating on the highway the vacuum almost dropped to 0 and then came up to about 10.Then ,when I was driving up my hill to my house, the vacuum dropped again at about 2000 rpm going up the hill. This is driving me nuts. I can't stand it when my truck isn't running right.There is a plug in the front cat but I couldn't get it to budge to see if I got it out if that would change anything.The exhaust shop has got the front cat right at where the y-pipe comes off the engine because if I can find somebody that I can trust to tell me if it is definitely the cats that could be blocked I was going to replace them myself but the way they got it welded that isn't going to be possible unless I get another y-pipe because I think it would be cheaper for me to do it myself.Oh the spark plugs are fine. I wish there was a 4-wheel drive shop by my house but there isn't.Let me know what you think about this comment.Thanks for your help.

 

Rons beast

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sounds like one or more of the cats are blocked....Is there an exhaust shop that would remove them so you could drive the truck and be sure.

There are a few around that will install a temp. pipe for the test, for a reasonable fee.

Good Luck

 

miesk5

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yo Rog,

After all this time I just noticed that the two codes are 622 & 33.  I thought that I had replied to you with the following, but it may have been for someone else here or I screwed-up.

Do self test again because Ford went from two-digit to three-digit EEC IV Self-Test codes in 1991 to service the increasing number of service codes required to support various government On-Board Diagnostic (OBD) regulations. The phase-in from two-digit to three-digit codes started in the 1991 model year.

DTC 622

Transmission Solenoid Body:
Description: The powertrain control module controls the E4OD transmission operation through four on/off solenoids and one Variable Force Solenoid. These solenoids and transmission fluid temperature sensor are housed in the transmission solenoid body assembly. All are part of the transmission solenoid body and are not serviced individually. Additionally, in 1995, the protection diodes that were on the solenoid body have been moved to the PCM. Refer to the following information for the functions of these solenoids.

The on/off solenoids operate in the following manner:
When the solenoid is off, the fluid pressure feed is blocked by a check ball. The check ball is held in place by the solenoid piston.
When the solenoid is turned on by the PCM, the piston is pulled up, releasing the check ball and allowing fluid pressure to be applied to the check valves and/or other components controlled by the solenoid.

Shift Solenoids 1 and 2:
Shift solenoids 1 and 2 provide gear selection of first through fourth gears by controlling the pressure to the three shift valves.

Shift Solenoid 1:
Symptoms: Improper gear selection depending on failure mode and manual lever position; refer to the Shift Solenoid Operation Chart. May flash transmission control indicator lamp.
Diagnostic Trouble Codes: 617,** 618,** 619,** 621,* P0750,* P0751, P0781,** P0782,** P0783.** (*Output circuit check, generated only by electrical conditions. **May also be generated by other non-electronic related transmission hardware condition.)

Shift Solenoid 2 (SS2):
Symptoms: Improper gear selection depending on failure mode and manual lever position; refer to the Shift Solenoid Operation Chart. May flash transmission control indicator lamp.
Diagnostic Trouble Codes: 617,** 618,** 619,** 622,*. (*Output circuit check, generated only by electrical conditions. **May also be generated by other non-electronic related transmission hardware condition.)
 

Possible causes:

Damaged solenoid/assembly.

Open or shorted harness (internal/external).

Damaged PCM.

...

Miesk5 Note, following is also shown in below Test

TC30 Continuous Memory DTCs 621 (SS1), 622 (SS2), 641 (SS3) and 643 (TCC) indicate that sometime during the last 80 warm-up cycles, a failure was detected in the respective shift solenoid circuit.

Possible causes:

Intermittent open/shorted harness.

Intermittent fault in shift solenoid.

Check shift solenoid wires between transmission and Powertrain Control Module (PCM).

....

Use a VOM or DVOM.  Miesk5 Note, the following STO, SIG RTN in DLC are as shown in the Self-Test for Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC)s by my pal, BroncoJoe19;

/monthly_05_2008/post-9476-1209780173.jpg">/monthly_05_2008/post-9476-1209780173_thumb.jpg

  • Disconnect electrical connector on the speed control servo, if equipped.
  • VOM/DVOM on 20 volt scale.
  • Connect negative test lead to STO circuit at Data Link Connector (DLC) and meter positive test lead to B+.
  • Jumper STI circuit to SIG RTN at the DLC.
  • Perform Key On Engine Off Self-Test until Continuous Memory DTC have been displayed.
  • VOM/DVOM will indicate less than 1.0 volt when test is complete.
  • Depress and release throttle.
Does voltage increase?
Yes   REMAIN in Output State DTM. GO to TC2.
No - DEPRESS throttle to WOT and RELEASE. If STO voltage does not go high, PERFORM Pinpoint Test Step QC1. Leave equipment hooked up.

TC2 CHECK SOLENOID ELECTRICAL OPERATION

  • Key on, engine off.
  • Disconnect transmission connector.
  • Using a mirror, inspect both ends of the connector for damaged or pushed out pins, corrosion, loose wires, etc. Service as necessary.
  • Refer to the schematic and table of this Pinpoint Test.
  • /monthly_05_2012/post-3816-0-83058300-1336306965.gif">/monthly_05_2012/post-3816-0-83058300-1336306965_thumb.gif
  • Test Pins 35 and 37/57
    EPCPWR Application Wire Color
    4.9L, 5.0L, 5.8L & 7.5L RED
  • Connect VOM/DVOM positive test lead to VPWR circuit and negative test lead to solenoid circuit of the transmission vehicle harness connector.
  • VOM/DVOM on 20 volt scale.
  • While observing DVOM, depress and release throttle several times to cycle solenoid output ON and OFF.
Does the suspect solenoid output voltage change at least 0.5 volt?
  and through and past;

TC30 CONTINUOUS MEMORY DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODES (DTCS) 621/622/641/643:
VISUALLY CHECK SHIFT SOLENOID HARNESS

Continuous Memory DTCs 621 (SS1), 622 (SS2), 641 (SS3) and 643 (TCC) indicate that sometime during the last 80 warm-up cycles, a failure was detected in the respective shift solenoid circuit.

Possible causes:

  • Intermittent open/shorted harness.
  • Intermittent fault in shift solenoid.
  • Check shift solenoid wires between transmission and Powertrain Control Module (PCM).

read more @ http://www.thedieselstop.com/faq/9497faq/maint/vra/vra06108.htm#ppttc1

But Ford goes on to refer some tests using the EEC IV Breakout box (BOB); instead of breakout box, go to the EEC CONNECTOR  pin instead; or use the wiring diagrams to substitute the Solenoid Body Connector wire colors/CKT Number,

---------

Solenoid Body Connector Location; "...It's on the passenger side of the transmission. You'll need to remove a small heat shield (two bolts) next to the catalytic converter, and probably clean away a TON of gunk before yanking it. Ford wasn't too bright in designing the placement of this connector. The connector has a single press-in tab latching it in place, IIRC; It looks like this,

e4od-solenoid-body-connector.jpg

and there's only one locking tab on it technically. But if you look at the bottom of the picture, there's one of those Ford-style mechanisms that should (repeat should) separate upon pulling the connector. You may find it helpful to pinch both sides of the connector while pulling on the harness (it won't hurt the connector). The corrosion can really be a bitch to pull against. If you still can't pull it off, you may find it beneficial to use a flat-blade screwdriver and apply some leverage to it from underneath. Make sure you've got plenty of light under there to see all..."
Source: by SigEpBlue (Steve)

Solenoid Pack Connector Location; ..."I just pulled an e4od out of a 92 and that connector is VERY easy to get to if you are willing to pull your carpet. There is a very convenient access panel in the center there and it makes reaching the top and sides of the tranny very easy..."
Source: by gunterelectric226

Now, maybe you or Ron and others can correlate the vacuum readings you found to the  622 Code Symptoms: Improper gear selection?

=============

The 33 Code could possibly be;

 

 

 

332
(R,M)
EGR did not open/respond during test or if memory code, did not open intermittantly – EVR or PFE

334
(O,R,M)
EVP sensor is/was high – EVR

335
(O)
EGR feedback signal is/was out of range – EVR or PFE

336
(O,R,M)
PFE sensor signal is/was was high – ">PFE

337
(O,R,M)
EGR feedback signal is/was was high – EVR

 

 

 
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miesk5

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yo,

What do you guys think of the vacuum readings reported by Rog and the Ford Intake Manifold Vacuum Test showing;

NORMAL READING DURING RAPID ACCELERATION AND DECELERATION: When engine is rapidly accelerated (dotted needle), needle will drop to a low (not to zero) reading. When throttle is suddenly released, the needle will snap back up to a higher than normal figure.

Will the E4OD Code 622 cause this as well?

RESTRICTED EXHAUST SYSTEM: When the engine is first started and is idled, the reading may be normal. As the engine rpm is increased, the back-pressure caused by a clogged muffler, kinked tail pipe, etc., will cause the needle to slowly drop to zero. The needle then may slowly rise. Excessive exhaust clogging will cause the needle to drop to a low point even if the engine is only idled

Ford does not included "clogged Cat", but I think it should be described in that test.

TESTING FOR AN EXHAUST SYSTEM RESTRICTION
These tests are used to determine if blockages exist in the exhaust system, creating excessive backpressure. The following test can help determine the location of an exhaust restriction.

ENGINE VACUUM TEST
The intent of the vacuum test is to determine if there is a blockage or restriction in the entire exhaust system. It may or may not indicate converter problems. This test can be performed using any suitable engine vacuum source. After the vacuum gauge is connected to a vacuum source, readings are noted at idle and then again at 2,500 RPMs. As engine speeds vary, readings should initially drop slightly, then rise to within 2 to 3 inches of the vacuum level established at idle. A large drop of 8-10 inches of vacuum typically indicates an exhaust restriction. Erratic swings of the vacuum readings may indicate periodic blockages caused by loose components temporarily blocking the exhaust system. Remember that vacuum levels are also affected by factors other than exhaust system restriction, including valve and ignition timing.

BACKPRESSURE TESTING
If a vehicle fails the engine backpressure vacuum test, you can pinpoint the component in the exhaust system causing the concern by measuring backpressure at different points in the exhaust system. These measurements can typically be made through the O2 sensor ports. Start by inspecting the system for crushed, bent, or otherwise restricted exhaust pipes. Replace or repair as required. If the system passes the visual inspection, remove the most rearward O2 sensor. This sensor is typically located directly after the converter. The use of heat or penetrating oil and a back and forth motion may help if the sensor threads are rusty. Most O2 sensors use an 18mm-threaded port, so one adapter fits many applications. Install adapter in the O2 port and tighten to manufacturer specifications. Then connect the gauge hose to the adapter. Begin by reading, and taking note of, pressure at idle and at 2500RPM. On most vehicles, at idle back pressure should not be higher than 1 psi. At 2500 RPMs the reading should not be higher than 3 psi. If the readings are high at this point, the blockage probably exists downstream of the test point, which typically means it is in the muffler or resonator. If the back pressure is okay at this location, move to the O2 sensor just ahead of the converter and retest. If the back pressure is high at this point, the converter is causing the issue. If the O2 sensor ahead of the converter tests okay, then the restriction is most likely in the y-pipe assembly, or there could be an internal restriction in the air gap pipe located between the exhaust manifold and the converter. by http://www.walkerexhaust.com/support/inspections

Excessive system backpressure can generate a converter efficiency code. Although backpressure varies with application, typically the pressure should be less than 3 psi at 2,000 rpm, and less than 1.5 psi at idle.

  • Using the O2 Sensor ports, check for excessive backpressure ahead of - and behind - the converter.
  • High backpressure behind the converter indicates a restricted muffler or resonator.
  • High backpressure ahead of the converter indicates a restricted converter.
  • High backpressure at the exhaust manifold indicates a blocked Y-connection.
  • Excessive backpressure will adversely affect AFR, leading to excessive emissions.
  • http://www.walkerexhaust.com/support/diagnosing-converter-issues/backpressure
Using an infrared thermometer, check the temperature of the converter's front and rear weld rings, to ensure the converter has "lit off." Depending on their sizes, most converters begin to light off around 350º F, and are fully lit around 500º F.

Under normal conditions, the rear weld ring may reach temperatures which are as much as 150º F higher than the front weld ring. If the rear weld ring reaches temperatures in excess of 150º F higher than the front weld ring, the engine may have an emissions problem.

  • Keep in mind that the converter's rear weld ring temperature is directly related to the amount of work the converter is performing. Therefore, elevated temperatures may indicate an emissions issue.
  • If the rear weld ring is significantly cooler than the front, the converter may not be lighting off. This may indicate the converter has failed, or that the exhaust mixture is not correct - the symptom of an underlying emissions issue.
  • Typically, converter temperatures will not exceed 1200º F on a properly running engine. Periodic operation above 1600º F can negatively affect the precious metals coating on the substrate, reducing its efficiency. Excessive temperatures can reduce the converter's durability, or - if high enough - destroy the converter's matting or substrate.
  • Damaged matting and melted substrates typically occur at temperatures exceeding 1700º F. It is possible to test for a cracked substrate or damaged matting by tapping on the converter housing. Using a rubber mallet, "thump" the shell, listening for loose components.
  • A bronze / blue rainbow discoloration of the shell typically indicates elevated temperatures. If the converter is removed, look through the substrate to observe whether the small passageways are melted or collapsed. The substrate may actually appear normal at either end, since the substrate melts internally.
http://www.walkerexhaust.com/support/diagnosing-converter-issues/check-converter-temperature

 
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rogmit

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Miesk5 and Rons beast,I know for sure that the one converter is blocked because I almost didn't make it home from my daughters house,trying to accelerate was almost impossible and the vacuum would drop down to 0 and when I got home the front converter was blazing.So,I don't know if the other converter is bad yet or not.The front converter that the exhaust shop had put on 2 to 2 1/2 years ago has 2 inlets and 1 outlet.Is that the way the original equipment one was? The other question is has anyone ever replaced their catalytic converter?I can get one from Jegs or Summit for about $100-120 dollars.The exhaust shop wants $289.I got my brothers mig welder and I'll send pictures later Of what they did,it looks like S**t.I figured i could do that good.Oh yeah if any one has any pictures of what the original exhaust looks like on a 92 ford bronco with a 5.8,I'd like to see it.

 

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