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fuel line or carb. problem


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#1 ToddJerad

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Posted 30 June 2008 - 05:55 PM

For the third time I have run out of gas. My 70 bronco has an aux and main gas tank switch on dash as well. The autometer guage is obviously off a quarter of a tank because I died on the road. The prev. owner installed it. When I ran out of gas I tried to switch over to main tank but could not get gas up to carb. even after i put two more gallons in the same tank that went out. Of course I took off air filter and added gas to carb and got the EB to kick. I thought there was a resevoir in the fuel filter or carb so I can switch tanks on empty and start the truck up. I also heard to position the filter higher. This is my first bronco so I am probably experiencing normal problems but does this mean a carb rebuild on my 4 barrel holley is necessary or is this a fuel line/ filter problem or even worse a problem I have to live with everytime I run out of gas? As always thanks in advance for reading.
1970 Ford Bronco 302 w/ holley carb, edelbrock intake, manual steering and drum brakes, 3 on the floor hurst, hd radio with 2 10's.
1989 Honda GB500
Not to mention mounting debt :)

#2 Crude dude

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Posted 30 June 2008 - 06:23 PM

A very easy fix that I have found is an electric fuel pump. If there is gas in a tank, it will get it to the carb without cranking the engine. I also have the autometer gauge on my 1970 Bronco and it is also 1/4 tank off. It does take a bit of battery juice to crank long enough to get fuel to the carb. I dont believe that filter placement would help with anything its just out of fuel and if the carburetor is letting the engine run fine then I wouldnt mess with it.
1970 Bronco 302, C4, 5.5" WH, ARB, Custom everything else, 2007 Dodge Cummins 4x4 with some goodies, 2000 Excursion 7.3 4x4

#3 ToddJerad

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Posted 30 June 2008 - 09:03 PM

Thanks, I will replace mechanical one just thought maybe it was a carb problem , as well I know people have there own mounting places, but is lower still better for extracting gas.
1970 Ford Bronco 302 w/ holley carb, edelbrock intake, manual steering and drum brakes, 3 on the floor hurst, hd radio with 2 10's.
1989 Honda GB500
Not to mention mounting debt :)

#4 Bully Bob

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 06:48 AM

"For the third time I have run out of gas."

"...or is this a fuel line/ filter problem or even worse a problem I have to live with everytime I run out of gas?"

Todd..,
The long/short is.., Please don't run out of gas...!!!! [-o<
This is dangerous to you & others as well. [-X

"I thought there was a resevoir in the fuel filter or carb so I can switch tanks on empty and start the truck up."
No

".......so I am probably experiencing normal problems"
YES...normal for anybody who runs ANY veh. out of gas.
If you want real problems..., try this with fuel injection..!!

Just consider 1/4 tank as E-M-P-T-Y ..& gas up/switch tanks long B/4 that...& you'll be a "happy camper" $-)

Edited by Bully Bob, 01 July 2008 - 07:03 AM.

---Jeep recovery unit---
1966 "U-13" Roadster...topless, doorless. (with rag top-n-doors)
200 cu.in. I-6 with 250 head.
$30 homemade HEI elect. ignition.
Pwr. steering, Hurst 3-speed floor shifter.
Split headers, dual exhaust, Holley 1 brl.
Stock axles...456's...32's ...Posi rear. 2.5 in. lift.
Full roll-cage, front.
65 gallons of fuel on board..!
70+ MPH cruise---15 MPG
6 EB's (& 11 early Land Cruisers) referbished & sold..

#5 JLasvegas

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 06:52 AM

its also had on your fuel pump to run on such a low tank, it will burn it up and you will suck up anything sitting on the bottom of your tank
1989 FORD BRONCO XLT 5.0 302

#6 ToddJerad

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 07:17 AM

I know old carb trucks need to add gas before but thought with pumping peddle and trying to crank eventually I could get gas up to the carb. My gauges are way off and thought I had plenty of gas in both tanks. The problem is when I switched to the main tank when puttering it still couldn't get gas to the carb before it ran out and eventually died. Then with 3/4 to a half tank in main line I couldn't get to crank until I poured the gas in the carb by hand. Will the electric fuel pump fix this problem that crude dude suggested and if so would you mount horizontal to the frame similar to if an efi system were installed?
1970 Ford Bronco 302 w/ holley carb, edelbrock intake, manual steering and drum brakes, 3 on the floor hurst, hd radio with 2 10's.
1989 Honda GB500
Not to mention mounting debt :)

#7 BroncoJoe19

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 07:51 AM

I know old carb trucks need to add gas before but thought with pumping peddle and trying to crank eventually I could get gas up to the carb. My gauges are way off and thought I had plenty of gas in both tanks. The problem is when I switched to the main tank when puttering it still couldn't get gas to the carb before it ran out and eventually died. Then with 3/4 to a half tank in main line I couldn't get to crank until I poured the gas in the carb by hand. Will the electric fuel pump fix this problem that crude dude suggested and if so would you mount horizontal to the frame similar to if an efi system were installed?

Your problem is that you need to fix your guages, and keep gas in your tank.
BroncoJoe19... I am not a professional mechanic, nor an engineer.
One should always obtain professional advice before attempting a repair or modification.

1990 Tan on Black Eddie Bauer - resides in North Jersey
302 with 33's on 15s E4OD Speedometer corrected trans
Auto hubs with manual transfer case snorkel

#8 Crude dude

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 12:58 PM

The manual pumps require the engine to be turning over for the fuel to get to the carburetor from the pump. If you run the system out of fuel then you have to basically prime the whole system ( fuel filter, lines and carburetor fuel bowl)with the manual pump and this could eat up a batterys juice and then burn up the starter. You would be better off letting the engine turn over for a while before pumping the gas pedal. The electrical pump will prime the system for you and if you are quick to switch tanks the truck may not even die when running out of fuel. My truck did not have fuel gauges for the first 7-8 years that I drove it and every time I drove it I put fuel in it. It was a pain in the arss to try to get the fuel from the tank to the carburetor due to either a weak battery or a starter that kicked out after cranking a few times. Electrical pump is a great upgrade if you dont mind some buzzing.
1970 Bronco 302, C4, 5.5" WH, ARB, Custom everything else, 2007 Dodge Cummins 4x4 with some goodies, 2000 Excursion 7.3 4x4

#9 Bully Bob

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 01:21 PM

Now you've got me curious.... :o

Why is it comfortable for you to buy a $100+ elect. pump.....
Rather than manage your fuel & change tanks at a safer level FOR NO $$COST AT ALL...? :unsure:

And you're right ...a clean/tight fuel system will fill the lines..., the fuel pump..., the carb.., & start the eng. with-in a few seconds of cranking...! ><img src=<' />

If not.., then something's amiss....like air seepage thru a rubber hose between tank & pump :( for one...

Edited by Bully Bob, 01 July 2008 - 01:27 PM.

---Jeep recovery unit---
1966 "U-13" Roadster...topless, doorless. (with rag top-n-doors)
200 cu.in. I-6 with 250 head.
$30 homemade HEI elect. ignition.
Pwr. steering, Hurst 3-speed floor shifter.
Split headers, dual exhaust, Holley 1 brl.
Stock axles...456's...32's ...Posi rear. 2.5 in. lift.
Full roll-cage, front.
65 gallons of fuel on board..!
70+ MPH cruise---15 MPG
6 EB's (& 11 early Land Cruisers) referbished & sold..

#10 ToddJerad

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 02:28 PM

I think I am going to go with an electric fuel pump. The reason being that it also comes with the switch I can hide under my dash to prevent theft or at least i will see him 50 yards down the road trying to get it to kick. It seems to be only about 110 dollars to get the pump, hoses, etc. I am also going to rebuild carb as well and hope it runs and starts a little better after. I also tried to crank before pushing gas, switched tanks, starter fluid, etc. but with no fuel in lines I couldn't get it to turn and was afraid battery and starter would lose power soon, so i decided to just fill carb. I figure in a pinch I could hopefully get it started and maybe gain a small amount of performance. Thanks again
1970 Ford Bronco 302 w/ holley carb, edelbrock intake, manual steering and drum brakes, 3 on the floor hurst, hd radio with 2 10's.
1989 Honda GB500
Not to mention mounting debt :)

#11 Bully Bob

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    Hot women, 4x4'n, flying homebuilts -- or -- a nice Super Cub !
  • Favorite Bronco Year?:6677

Posted 01 July 2008 - 03:09 PM

Todd..,
With all due respect.... I think you're making a big mistake ("putting a band-aid on..") :-&

Sorry, but after read'n all your posts....best advice is get/find a good mechanic who can help and/or advise you on tasks you choose to do yourself. Then let him inspect. B)

Many folks get in over their heads & put there lives in danger as well as others.
That's what I see here..!

Again..., none of your problems are unique to Broncos of any year. They are basic maintance & up -keep/minor mods that most novice mechanics could handle....on ANY (older) vehicle. At 26.., if you're not at least "novice" it's prob. not going to happen. :ph34r:

Please don't get yourself hurt...@ that's no fun at all............. :((
---Jeep recovery unit---
1966 "U-13" Roadster...topless, doorless. (with rag top-n-doors)
200 cu.in. I-6 with 250 head.
$30 homemade HEI elect. ignition.
Pwr. steering, Hurst 3-speed floor shifter.
Split headers, dual exhaust, Holley 1 brl.
Stock axles...456's...32's ...Posi rear. 2.5 in. lift.
Full roll-cage, front.
65 gallons of fuel on board..!
70+ MPH cruise---15 MPG
6 EB's (& 11 early Land Cruisers) referbished & sold..

#12 ToddJerad

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 05:20 PM

I have experience with bikes and have people helping or else I could never have done half the things. This forum has also led me to many answers that mechanics and so called experts had 0 input on. I am not sure how my life is put in danger; most things on a car can be fixed, rebuilt, and replaced with some knowhow and with help it ain't too difficult. Driving on streets in an industrial area with no traffic to test all problems and wasting little gas by not filling up completely (my stupid mistake when i took longest drive to muffler shop) is more mindless than dangerous. It is easy to replace fuel lines, add EFI, full tune up, complete rebuild, disc brakes, power steering, show paint, etc. when money is no object. If I wanted a $15,000 bronco or maybe $30,000 i can find them all day long for sale, but buying someones trash for nothing, turning it into a car you always loved by doing the grunt work yourself, and getting the EB communities advice to fix the immediate problems are much more feasible on my budget.
1970 Ford Bronco 302 w/ holley carb, edelbrock intake, manual steering and drum brakes, 3 on the floor hurst, hd radio with 2 10's.
1989 Honda GB500
Not to mention mounting debt :)

#13 BroncoJoe19

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 06:11 PM

ToddJerad,
You are not going to get any additional performance from adding an electric pump. Do you plan to add a high pressure electric pump, or a low pressure one?

You said that your actions were "mindless" not BullyBob, though I suspect he would like to. You also said that you are working on a budget. For five dollars, you can buy a toggle switch, and put it in line with the 12 volt line that goes to the BAT side of the coil. Flip that switch, and the car/truck will never start. WHY spend $100 American on a pump that you do not need, and justify its expense because it comes with a switch? You'll also have to buy, and install the relay switches, etc!

In reality, your problem is simply you do not know when you are dangerously low on gas!

I was thinking about your comments earlier today, and likened them to this...
If a person's roof is leaking, the solution is NOT go out and buy a new mop!

You have bad guages, and run out of gas. Instead of fixing the problem, you want to put in an electric pump so that it is easier to start after you run out of gas! Do you plan on running out of gas on a regular basis?

Doesn't it make sense to you to fix the guages problem first?

You have me baffled.

Edited by BroncoJoe19, 01 July 2008 - 06:13 PM.

BroncoJoe19... I am not a professional mechanic, nor an engineer.
One should always obtain professional advice before attempting a repair or modification.

1990 Tan on Black Eddie Bauer - resides in North Jersey
302 with 33's on 15s E4OD Speedometer corrected trans
Auto hubs with manual transfer case snorkel

#14 Bully Bob

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    Hot women, 4x4'n, flying homebuilts -- or -- a nice Super Cub !
  • Favorite Bronco Year?:6677

Posted 01 July 2008 - 07:19 PM

Yes..., what Joe said..!

Mr. Jerad...,
My friend, have you ever taken an autoshop class..? If not.., it would be a great benefit to you....for half a dozen reasons.
By all means.., use all the EB boards for advice...but understand, without laying an eyeball on the problem/s ... this is really a guessing game. Especially having to rely on the discriptions that pop up.

"wasting little gas by not filling up completely"
Baffled here..??

"I am not sure how my life is put in danger"
You do understand elect. fuel pumps don't shut off in a crash...??
P/S & P/B quit when eng. stalls..?

Not sure how others think..., BUT, when I answer a question/problem here...I do so as though I'm talking to 5-10-maybe 100 other folks with a simular problem. So don't take what I say personal.

My #1 goal is safety...I discourage & talk down tasks that are otherwise..!

Having said all that..., I'll not "chime-in" on your posts in the future.., for obvious reasons..., but I wish you only the best of luck & yrs. of fun with your rig.

B
---Jeep recovery unit---
1966 "U-13" Roadster...topless, doorless. (with rag top-n-doors)
200 cu.in. I-6 with 250 head.
$30 homemade HEI elect. ignition.
Pwr. steering, Hurst 3-speed floor shifter.
Split headers, dual exhaust, Holley 1 brl.
Stock axles...456's...32's ...Posi rear. 2.5 in. lift.
Full roll-cage, front.
65 gallons of fuel on board..!
70+ MPH cruise---15 MPG
6 EB's (& 11 early Land Cruisers) referbished & sold..

#15 STLKIKN

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 10:36 PM

My opinions...
As stated, you should look into fixing the fuel gauge first and foremost.
IF you install an electric pump and continue to run it out of fuel you risk damaging the electric pump as well (they use the flowing fuel to lubricate and cool the pump)
You can install a toggle switch into either your starter wire or your coil wire as a quick cheap anti-theft device.
You can also use your fuel tank switch as an anti-theft device (how many people know that the gauge switch and the tank switch are separate thing in the EBs?)

If your Bronco has a manual transmission, at the first sign of coughing or sputter, you should switch the tank, if I switch any of my EBs at that time, I can still coast through the change over. (Meaning that it will cough and sputter until there is good flow from the second tank) The only time I have had an issue with changing tanks was the first time my other half ran our old 77 (auto tranny) out of fuel and I had to go start it for her for the same reason that you have had issues.

Yes, if you run it completely dry before switching, you have to allow time for the pump to try and draw fuel through a dry system, meaning filling the lines, priming a dry pump, filling the filter, and then the fuel bowl or bowls on your 4 bbl... quite a lot of cranking if I do say so myself...

Good luck with your decisions here, but remember just by changing the way you approach the problem, you may save yourself some time, effort and money.
Visit the shop here, www.modernmotors.com
Serving Canadians since 1948.

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There's a fine line between a hobby and a mental illness...
Running tally...16 over the last 20 years.
2nd owner 68, well used 69, two 73s and a 77 are currently in the stable.

#16 ToddJerad

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Posted 02 July 2008 - 07:50 AM

Didn't fill completely bc car is sitting in warehouse and had a couple of 2 gallon tanks I ran to gas station with. Guage said quarter tank before (now i know thats wrong). I will stray away from electric fuel pump and maybe change out lines soon (since its probably been 38 years anyways) and see if this helps bc maybe leakage is the problem even though I checked for cracks and bad connections, maybe replacing them will be more beneficial as what Bully said. I also think a lot of people add electric fuel pumps to their lines that use holleys or other carbs to replace the manual ones, are they wasting time and money? I know there are benefits and I do know the truck will have no shut off in a terrible accident if I can't hit switch. The truth is people will tell you all day long to put this in, take that out, but unless you get advice from experts like you Bully on broncos (im sure you could build them ground up with a blindfold) and some help from those who went to school, it really helps amateur mechanics . And in regards to STLKIKN, I still couldn't get fuel up after lots of cranking, pumping, until i just poured fuel into carb so i knew there must be some problem hence the asking for advice. I also tried to switch when puttering and still running with no avail. By now I have replaced and upgraded most parts under hood so I don't think i am throwing gas on fire just want an updated version of a 40 year truck and trying to take it step by step. Gauge will be tested even though have feeling it is senders. All advice is greatly appreciated and I only tackle jobs doable by everyday people who want to know how to keep their car serviced and running properly since it is a long term investment (probably a losing one). And why fuel isn't getting up the lines seems like a decent topic others may need to know as well. Thanks again I will try to keep it to EB specific questions.

Edited by ToddJerad, 02 July 2008 - 07:52 AM.

1970 Ford Bronco 302 w/ holley carb, edelbrock intake, manual steering and drum brakes, 3 on the floor hurst, hd radio with 2 10's.
1989 Honda GB500
Not to mention mounting debt :)

#17 Crude dude

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 10:13 AM

ToddJerad , I want to apologize for giving you advice that could have killed you and possibly the rest of the neighborhood. The commanders will take over from here. Good luck
1970 Bronco 302, C4, 5.5" WH, ARB, Custom everything else, 2007 Dodge Cummins 4x4 with some goodies, 2000 Excursion 7.3 4x4

#18 STLKIKN

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 12:39 AM

Crude dude, I don't think anybody meant it that way....
But, if you are running an electric fuel pump a great safety feature is an oil pressure cut off switch.
Wire your relay trigger wire through an oil pressure sensor that switches on/ off, you can add a "t" fitting to the end of the factory pressure sender extension and install the switch there.
It may take a second or two for the oil pressure to build and trigger the switch when cranking/starting, but in the case of an accident where the switch no longer senses oil pressure, the fuel pump will shut off hopefully preventing any further damage.

Edited by STLKIKN, 06 July 2008 - 12:40 AM.

Visit the shop here, www.modernmotors.com
Serving Canadians since 1948.

(O===O)
There's a fine line between a hobby and a mental illness...
Running tally...16 over the last 20 years.
2nd owner 68, well used 69, two 73s and a 77 are currently in the stable.

#19 BroncoJoe19

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 03:08 AM

Crude dude, I don't think anybody meant it that way....
But, if you are running an electric fuel pump a great safety feature is an oil pressure cut off switch.
Wire your relay trigger wire through an oil pressure sensor that switches on/ off, you can add a "t" fitting to the end of the factory pressure sender extension and install the switch there.
It may take a second or two for the oil pressure to build and trigger the switch when cranking/starting, but in the case of an accident where the switch no longer senses oil pressure, the fuel pump will shut off hopefully preventing any further damage.

Crude dude, I never considered that you didn't install your's properly, but if you didn't then you should certainly include some kind of an automatic cut-off safety switch. The newer broncos with electric fuel pumps use an inertial cut off safety switch. They are inexpensive, and I imagine easy to install.

Now just to be clear... I am not a professional mechanic, nor an engineer. You and anyone who reads this and any thread I participate in is on your/his own. Whenever one makes a modification, or deviation from factory original, that person assumes the risk and any liabilities associated with that deviation and any safety issues.

The titles of village idiot, or Supreme Commander have nothing to do with the amount of knowledge or experience that a member has. It is simply a reflection of the number of posts one has made in this forum. One can post LOL to a thousand jokes in the tavern section, and attain the title of Supreme Commander.


joe
BroncoJoe19... I am not a professional mechanic, nor an engineer.
One should always obtain professional advice before attempting a repair or modification.

1990 Tan on Black Eddie Bauer - resides in North Jersey
302 with 33's on 15s E4OD Speedometer corrected trans
Auto hubs with manual transfer case snorkel

#20 Crude dude

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 05:19 PM

I didnt take it to heart. I undertand that everyone has an opinion and I did not want this post to go "south". Everyone offers great advice on this site and if you cant take a little criticism, you shouldnt have an early Bronco....right? I just put a humerous twist on my exit of this post.
1970 Bronco 302, C4, 5.5" WH, ARB, Custom everything else, 2007 Dodge Cummins 4x4 with some goodies, 2000 Excursion 7.3 4x4



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