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holly 4 bbl help


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#1 skinny_kenny_18

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Posted 13 April 2008 - 09:51 AM

hi folks, new here to your sight. i just bought an 84 full size bronco. it has the 351w in it with the holly 4 bbl. i am not any good with carbs as i have always fooled with fuel injectors. my problem is the bronco when first cranked will die unless you keep your foot on the gas. you can take off and drive 20 feet and its fine. once warmed up it does fine. rpm right where i want them. what do i need to do to get this cold natured truck under control. thanks so much

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1984 bronco, ranger xlt. 351 windsor.
32" over aggresive all terrain.
94 seats front and back.
rino lined floor.
warn winch bumper.
warn x8000i winch

#2 Schroder's 84 Bronco

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Posted 13 April 2008 - 01:01 PM

hi folks, new here to your sight. i just bought an 84 full size bronco. it has the 351w in it with the holly 4 bbl. i am not any good with carbs as i have always fooled with fuel injectors. my problem is the bronco when first cranked will die unless you keep your foot on the gas. you can take off and drive 20 feet and its fine. once warmed up it does fine. rpm right where i want them. what do i need to do to get this cold natured truck under control. thanks so much


Have you checked your choke? I had the same problem and had to rewire then adjust my electric choke. Good luck.
Brett

'84 Bronco
351W
Edelbrock intake, K&N filter
Headers, no cat, Dual Flowmaster 40s
31x10.5x15 Bridgestone Dueler ATs

#3 Broncobill78

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Posted 13 April 2008 - 01:31 PM

Yup, I'd agree, start by fiddling w/the choke. Look on the side of the carb & you'll see a round cap w/a couple spade connectors on it. That's the choke cap. Loosen the 3 screws that secure the hold-down and rotate the cap a bit (to be honest it's been awhile since I've done it myself & I forget which direction to start with but just mark your starting spot & adjust it in small increments until it runs well)

Another thing to do when it's cold and you go out to warm it up is to push the pedal all the way down to the floor *once* when you first get in the truck & BEFORE you start it. This will set the fast idle, after you've started the engine leave the gas pedal alone for the first few minutes because once you stab it you'll knock down the idle and be back to stalling out. The fast idle setting is there to warm it up, once you hit the gas or start driving the throttle movement will knock it down. To adjust the fast idle rpm's you will need to hold the throttle wide open ( without the engine running) this will drop a lever under the choke housing with a 1/4" screw in it to slow it down turn it counter clockwise to speed it up turn it clockwise.

Edited by Broncobill78, 13 April 2008 - 01:35 PM.

Dave

People who say it can't be done should not interrupt the person doing it.

84 Mustang GT (Great car to lose your license with, I recommend it for those trying to do so)
74 Ranchero (429, c6, Currie enterprises 9" w/Mickey Thompson cheater slicks, 1970 Torino shaker hood scoop)
82 Bronco (Canadian truck, kilometer speedo, dual batteries, hi-output heater, dual factory block heaters/etc)
78 Bronco (400, 33" Fun Countries, fastback softtop)
79 Bronco (460, 36" Ground Hawgs, frame-off rebuild)
84 Bronco (bone-stock beater)
73 Bronco (I only had it 2 wks before flipping & crushing it.)
76 F-350 (390, 40" Super Swampers, ugly ugly ugly fire-engine green/yellow cab w/faded purple bed)
78 Bronco (460, 38.5" Ground Hawgs, Dana 60's, boxed frame, frame-off rebuild)
86 Bronco (only truck I've ever had fall thru the ice & just plain disappear. no end of hassles from the ins. co.)
91 Bronco (25th anniversary edition, red w/grey leather everything interior, 31x11.5's)
88 Bronco (33x12.5's)
79 Bronco (Current project, 4" lift w/weenie little pizza cutters)

Looking for 78/79 parts, please let me know if you have one you're parting out.

#4 Justshootme84

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 06:50 PM

The 4-bbl carb in the 84-86 351W H.O. Bronco is a Holley#4180. First thing I would check is that the electric choke is getting power. You can look at the wiring diagrams for it, but i can tell you that the power comes from the back of the alternator, and that clip has a tendency to fall out. From the alt, the wire runs around the back of the engine bay to a relay on the other side, then back to the carb. The relay may be bad, too. IT's not one of Ford's better engineering ideas, as it gave me many headaches on my 84 Bronco. If you're getting 7v power to the carb choke, then you can try the adjustment that BB78 suggested (great info). I also had problems with the carb leaking gas everywhere, and tried to rebuld it to no avail. If your carb is the original and leaking, I would replace it with an aftermarket carb. There's a few recent posts on this problem, too. JSM84
1984 Bronco XLT, 460, C-6 AT, Dana60, Sterling 10.25", 36" GYR RT-II's on H1 rims, S&W Racecars 10-pt cage kit, PRP racing seats, tube doors, Herculiner, custom "shaker" assembly.

1988 Bronco Custom, 302 EFI, C-6 AT, Ford 8.8". parting out

1986 Bronco Custom, 300-I6, NP435 4sp, Ford 8.8", new paint

1988 F-350, 4WD, 460 EFI, C-6Dana 60, Sterling 10.25 (donor)

1978 Bronco Custom, 351M, NP435, Currie Ford 9" w/ spool

1979 F-150 4WD, 351M, C-6, 4.10 gears w/ 35" mud tires

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#5 crazyhorse85

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 07:33 AM

THE 4180 HOLLEY CARB.IS ABOUT THE BIGGEST PIECE OF JUNK THERE HAS EVER BEEN PUT ON A FORD ENGINE...IT'S THE SAME CARB THAT I HAD WHEN I FIRST BOUGHT MY 85...COULDN'T GET IT STRAIGHTENED OUT...THE MAN I BOUGHT HER FROM I GUESS TRIED TO ADJUST IT,HAD IT RUNNING LEAN AND BRUNT UP TWO PISTONS...BAD FOR HIM GOOD FOR ME...HE COULDN'T FIGURE OUT WHAT WAS WRONG WITH HER AND SOLD HER REAL CHEAP...THE FIX I CAME UP WITH AFTER REBUILD WAS A HOLLEY 750 DUAL LINE...BUT IF YOUR RUNNIN STOCK A 650 IS PLEANTY...PARTS FOR 4180 CARBS ARE HIGH DOLLAR...IT'S BETTER TO CHANGE IT IF IT DOESN'T WORK WELL...
85 BRONCO,351W BORED .040 OVER,MILD RV CAM.. C6 TRANS. 750 DUAL LINE HOLLEY HEDMANN HEADERS 3INCH EXHAUST,THRUSH GLASSPACKS,BW 1356 T-CASE, FORD 9 INCH REAR AXLE..33 X 12.50 /15 AT'S..RHINO LINED TOP...UPGRADED HEADLAMPS:NO MORE SEALED BEAM:HEAVYDUTY LIGHT HARNESS...

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#6 skinny_kenny_18

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Posted 19 April 2008 - 02:21 PM

Yup, I'd agree, start by fiddling w/the choke. Look on the side of the carb & you'll see a round cap w/a couple spade connectors on it. That's the choke cap. Loosen the 3 screws that secure the hold-down and rotate the cap a bit (to be honest it's been awhile since I've done it myself & I forget which direction to start with but just mark your starting spot & adjust it in small increments until it runs well)

Another thing to do when it's cold and you go out to warm it up is to push the pedal all the way down to the floor *once* when you first get in the truck & BEFORE you start it. This will set the fast idle, after you've started the engine leave the gas pedal alone for the first few minutes because once you stab it you'll knock down the idle and be back to stalling out. The fast idle setting is there to warm it up, once you hit the gas or start driving the throttle movement will knock it down. To adjust the fast idle rpm's you will need to hold the throttle wide open ( without the engine running) this will drop a lever under the choke housing with a 1/4" screw in it to slow it down turn it counter clockwise to speed it up turn it clockwise.

thanks so much for the help. with your and just shoot me advice i think i have about figured it out.
1984 bronco, ranger xlt. 351 windsor.
32" over aggresive all terrain.
94 seats front and back.
rino lined floor.
warn winch bumper.
warn x8000i winch

#7 skinny_kenny_18

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Posted 19 April 2008 - 03:28 PM

ok just got done looking and i found a brown wire comming from the back of my alt. it is burnt in two. undid the wire loom it was in and found no brown wire or other wire burnt. looked and the wiring diagram in the haynes and is said from the alt the wire goes to the starter relay and then to the choke. on the choke there is a place for two female connectors. one goes from the choke strait up to a screw on the carb. looks like it is a ground. haynes mentioned nothing of a ground. but the other male connector is bare. should i run a wire from there to the start relay??? i am thinking if i did the choke would be hot all the time. help please.
1984 bronco, ranger xlt. 351 windsor.
32" over aggresive all terrain.
94 seats front and back.
rino lined floor.
warn winch bumper.
warn x8000i winch

#8 Schroder's 84 Bronco

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Posted 19 April 2008 - 08:40 PM

ok just got done looking and i found a brown wire comming from the back of my alt. it is burnt in two. undid the wire loom it was in and found no brown wire or other wire burnt. looked and the wiring diagram in the haynes and is said from the alt the wire goes to the starter relay and then to the choke. on the choke there is a place for two female connectors. one goes from the choke strait up to a screw on the carb. looks like it is a ground. haynes mentioned nothing of a ground. but the other male connector is bare. should i run a wire from there to the start relay??? i am thinking if i did the choke would be hot all the time. help please.


I am not sure why you have 2 wire on yours mine only has 1, you don't want it hot all the time only when running or it won't close. It may help if you post some pics.
Brett

'84 Bronco
351W
Edelbrock intake, K&N filter
Headers, no cat, Dual Flowmaster 40s
31x10.5x15 Bridgestone Dueler ATs

#9 Broncobill78

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 01:39 AM

ok just got done looking and i found a brown wire comming from the back of my alt. it is burnt in two. undid the wire loom it was in and found no brown wire or other wire burnt. looked and the wiring diagram in the haynes and is said from the alt the wire goes to the starter relay and then to the choke. on the choke there is a place for two female connectors. one goes from the choke strait up to a screw on the carb. looks like it is a ground. haynes mentioned nothing of a ground. but the other male connector is bare. should i run a wire from there to the start relay??? i am thinking if i did the choke would be hot all the time. help please.


Aw, gee. Ok, here's a few quick tips. Both Haynes & Chilton's are good for maybe wiping you ass while camping or lighting the campfire but outside of that I don't think either is worth $hit. If you're looking for a manual to give you some direction you want the ones published by Helm. Inc. Included is the link to a current auction. $60-$70 is NOT an unreasonable ammount to pay for a PAIR of factory manuals. $35-$40 each is about average but you will NEVER get better info than what's available in factory tech manuals. The Helm Manuals are what every dealership uses and they're what the factory tech's depend on for info. There is quite simple NO better source of info on your truck so if you plan on doing your own work get yourself the proper reference material.

http://cgi.ebay.com/...VQQcmdZViewItem

These manuals show up all the time and finding the set is not hard. You want the engine manual and the body,chassis,electrical manual. After that the *smart* thing to do is find/grab an EVTM (Electrical, Vacuum Troubleshooting Manual) and a wiring diagram manual. That's a set of 4 (four) different manuals but they'll be indispensable manuals that will walk you thru virtually *every* problem you'll ever have.

As a quick aside here's what the earlier facotory manuals have to say about adjusting the choke. Granted this isn't from an 84' manual but I can only afford SO many manuals and a carb is a carb is a carb. Choke settings only vary so much :) The info given WILL work for yours. They're for a 2bbl but there's NO difference in the adjustments. Shout at me if you REALLY think there's a difference and I'll dredge up & scan the exact same info for a 4bbl

Just my suggestions, take them for what they're worth

Attached Thumbnails

  • choke_002.jpg
  • choke_001.jpg

Edited by Broncobill78, 20 April 2008 - 04:10 AM.

Dave

People who say it can't be done should not interrupt the person doing it.

84 Mustang GT (Great car to lose your license with, I recommend it for those trying to do so)
74 Ranchero (429, c6, Currie enterprises 9" w/Mickey Thompson cheater slicks, 1970 Torino shaker hood scoop)
82 Bronco (Canadian truck, kilometer speedo, dual batteries, hi-output heater, dual factory block heaters/etc)
78 Bronco (400, 33" Fun Countries, fastback softtop)
79 Bronco (460, 36" Ground Hawgs, frame-off rebuild)
84 Bronco (bone-stock beater)
73 Bronco (I only had it 2 wks before flipping & crushing it.)
76 F-350 (390, 40" Super Swampers, ugly ugly ugly fire-engine green/yellow cab w/faded purple bed)
78 Bronco (460, 38.5" Ground Hawgs, Dana 60's, boxed frame, frame-off rebuild)
86 Bronco (only truck I've ever had fall thru the ice & just plain disappear. no end of hassles from the ins. co.)
91 Bronco (25th anniversary edition, red w/grey leather everything interior, 31x11.5's)
88 Bronco (33x12.5's)
79 Bronco (Current project, 4" lift w/weenie little pizza cutters)

Looking for 78/79 parts, please let me know if you have one you're parting out.

#10 Seabronc

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 03:23 AM

Here are a couple of diagrams, hope they help.

Good luck,

:)>-

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  • PG14a.jpg

Fred

Parts replacement is not trouble shooting, replacement follows trouble shooting

Broncos are MPVs not SUVs

Engines run on fuel, or steam

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#11 skinny_kenny_18

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 10:08 AM

ok i took a couple of pictures... see what you guys think... thank you all so much for your help so far...

Attached Thumbnails

  • CIMG2107.JPG
  • CIMG2106.JPG
  • CIMG2104.JPG

1984 bronco, ranger xlt. 351 windsor.
32" over aggresive all terrain.
94 seats front and back.
rino lined floor.
warn winch bumper.
warn x8000i winch

#12 Seabronc

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 08:10 PM

The ground is hooked up the way it should be. The other terminal should go to the alternator as shown in a previous diagram I included. The choke heater should not be hooked to 12V or to a circuit that is hot at all times. The stock Ford choke heater is designed for 7V which is what comes from the stator connection on the alternator.

If that is a Holley 4180 carb 4BBL, or anything else, it is probably time to change it for something new. It is most likely clogged internally, has vacuum leaks and a rebuild kit will be a real disappointment. Rebuild kits don't address vacuum leaks.

Good luck,

:)>-
Fred

Parts replacement is not trouble shooting, replacement follows trouble shooting

Broncos are MPVs not SUVs

Engines run on fuel, or steam

Motors run on electricity, hydraulic fluid, vacuum, or air


Communication: I know you think you know what I said, but what you need to know is, I didn't say what I meant.

Some of my pictures at Supermotors http://www.supermotors.net/212

#13 Redneck86

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 08:04 PM

From what i know once those 4180s start f*ckin up there pretty much done, rebuildint wont do much. New ones from Checker cost close to 400, you can get a new Edelbrock or better Holley for less then that from Summit Racing. Thats what i would do...
Spencer
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Long Gone...
On the hunt for a '78-'79

#14 Broncobill78

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 10:06 PM

The ground is hooked up the way it should be. The other terminal should go to the alternator as shown in a previous diagram I included. The choke heater should not be hooked to 12V or to a circuit that is hot at all times. The stock Ford choke heater is designed for 7V which is what comes from the stator connection on the alternator.

If that is a Holley 4180 carb 4BBL, or anything else, it is probably time to change it for something new. It is most likely clogged internally, has vacuum leaks and a rebuild kit will be a real disappointment. Rebuild kits don't address vacuum leaks.


Yup, as usual Fred's right. 12V will smoke it since it shouldn't be seeing more than 7V, there should be a lead coming off the dizzy that's intended to run to the choke. Might well be that some unknowing prev owner snipped it since it wasn't connected to anything at the time and he didn't know where it went but you don't want to just run a 12V lead there from something hot like the cig. lighter ( :) ask me how I know THAT one). If you're handy you CAN use a hot 12V supply from anywhere (such as the cig. lighter) & use an inline resistor to shave it down to 7V but that's getting into nerd territory (my apologies up front to all the EE types out there, no slander intended. Nothing but respect, I'm just saying that what you all take for granted is beyond most of us rank-N-file guys) and you're better off just finding & using the proper line from the dizzy.

I've never been a big fan of Holley rebuild kits. I've installed several and I think I was satisfied with maybe *one*. I much prefer to buy a rebuilt carb off the shelf but that's not always cheap especially when it's not a mainstream carb like the 4150/4160. Chances are that at this point you'll be better off financially to look for a rebuilt carb and just eat the core charge.

Edited by Broncobill78, 22 April 2008 - 10:10 PM.

Dave

People who say it can't be done should not interrupt the person doing it.

84 Mustang GT (Great car to lose your license with, I recommend it for those trying to do so)
74 Ranchero (429, c6, Currie enterprises 9" w/Mickey Thompson cheater slicks, 1970 Torino shaker hood scoop)
82 Bronco (Canadian truck, kilometer speedo, dual batteries, hi-output heater, dual factory block heaters/etc)
78 Bronco (400, 33" Fun Countries, fastback softtop)
79 Bronco (460, 36" Ground Hawgs, frame-off rebuild)
84 Bronco (bone-stock beater)
73 Bronco (I only had it 2 wks before flipping & crushing it.)
76 F-350 (390, 40" Super Swampers, ugly ugly ugly fire-engine green/yellow cab w/faded purple bed)
78 Bronco (460, 38.5" Ground Hawgs, Dana 60's, boxed frame, frame-off rebuild)
86 Bronco (only truck I've ever had fall thru the ice & just plain disappear. no end of hassles from the ins. co.)
91 Bronco (25th anniversary edition, red w/grey leather everything interior, 31x11.5's)
88 Bronco (33x12.5's)
79 Bronco (Current project, 4" lift w/weenie little pizza cutters)

Looking for 78/79 parts, please let me know if you have one you're parting out.



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